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Red Wings 2017-18 cap discussion

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Old
06-28-2017, 03:06 PM
  #1
Henkka
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Red Wings 2017-18 cap discussion

From capfriendly

Playing roster:
1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. Nielsen - 5.250M
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Tatar - RFA - contract extension estimation ~4.500M
5. Abdelkader - 4.250M
6. Helm - 3.850M
7. Athanasiou - RFA - contract extension estimation ~2.250M
8. Sheahan - 2.075M
9. Glendening - 1.800M
10. Larkin - 1.383M (925k base + 457.5k bonuses from last season)
11. Mantha - 863k
12. Frk - RFA - estimated qualifying offer ~704k
13. Bertuzzi - 662k

LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. DeKeyser - 5.000M
3. Kronwall - 4.750M
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Ouellet - RFA - contract extension estimation ~1.500M
6. Jensen - 812.5k
------------------
7. Sproul - 625k

1a. Howard - 5.292M
1b. Mrazek - 4.000M
3rd Coreau - 612.5k

Other costs:
2016-17 Bonus overage - 457.5k (already mentioned in Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout caphit for 2017-18 - 2.567M
Salary retentions - 0 k

Salary cap: 75 Million.
Current total figures - 73.829M
Cap space: 1.171M

LTIR help: 3.954M (Franzen)
Salary Cap space through Franzen LTIR ~5.125M (with 13+7+3 roster = 23 players)


Last edited by Henkka: 06-28-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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Old
06-28-2017, 03:37 PM
  #2
martinez
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Ouch

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Old
06-28-2017, 03:39 PM
  #3
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Yup looks like Holland has us in cap hell for the foreseeable future here.

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06-28-2017, 03:40 PM
  #4
SirloinUB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
LTIR help: 3.954M (Franzen)
Salary Cap space through Franzen LTIR ~5.125M (with 13+7+3 roster = 23 players)
To expand on this, Franzen is eligible for Season Opening Injury Reserve (SOIR).

Quote:
What is the season opening injured reserve (SOIR)?
If a player is injured during training-camp, they can be placed on season-opening injured reserve, to possibly obtain cap relief. It is notable that the SOIR equations are not the same as the daily rate equations in CBA 15.6, which is instead used to calculate the players daily salary (as opposed to cap hit).

Full Cap Hit
Players who are on a one-way contract, or players on a two-way contract who accrued 50 or more NHL games in the previous season count fully against the cap hit. Teams can opt to place these players on LTIR to obtain cap-relief (LTIR FAQ).

Discounted Cap Hit
Players on a two-way contract, who accrued 1-49 NHL games in the previous season, count against the teams cap hit; however, the reduced cap hit is calculated as follows:
Multiply the players NHL cap hit by the total accrued NHL days in the previous season, and divide by the total number of days in the previous season (Ex: 186 for 2014-15)

When a player is reactivated to the active roster, their cap hit reverts back to the full rate

Full cap relief
Players who did not accrue any NHL games in the previous season, can be placed on SOIR and do not count against their teams cap hit.
My interpretation of this: Franzen's contract is functionally free cap space and Holland does not need to do any contract shuffling to utilize that salary.

If my understanding is correct Holland has enough financial flexibility to make this forum have a melt down on July 1st

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Old
06-28-2017, 03:59 PM
  #5
Henkka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirloinUB View Post
To expand on this, Franzen is eligible for Season Opening Injury Reserve (SOIR).

My interpretation of this: Franzen's contract is functionally free cap space and Holland does not need to do any contract shuffling to utilize that salary.

If my understanding is correct Holland has enough financial flexibility to make this forum have a melt down on July 1st
Thanks about this. Didn't know it. Always just expected that we can live with that almost 100% full through. Don't have to speculate anymore.

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Old
06-28-2017, 04:33 PM
  #6
Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinez View Post
Ouch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Yup looks like Holland has us in cap hell for the foreseeable future here.

And to fix it he dumps the cheaper, but somewhat more promising young guys. Maybe other NHL GMs knew the veteran contracts were ridiculous. Highest cap hit in the NHL and second to last place this past season? Or thereabouts? Magnificent.

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Old
06-28-2017, 04:40 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
And to fix it he dumps the cheaper, but somewhat more promising young guys. Maybe other NHL GMs knew the veteran contracts were ridiculous. Highest cap hit in the NHL and second to last place this past season? Or thereabouts? Magnificent.
What makes it even worse, Even if we were to make the playoffs we can't add any rentals because we don't have the cap space to add any body without moving out another player. It's going to be that way for a long time i feel.

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06-28-2017, 05:02 PM
  #8
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CapFriendly is pretty depressing to look at. That Abby contract is just mind-numbing - how does he cost so much for so long? At least Kronwall is UFA in 2 more years. Hopefully Holland is gone before then so he can't re-sign Kronwall. I give Z 2 more years before he becomes "allergic to his equipment" and goes LTIR, so that will open up some space.

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06-28-2017, 05:02 PM
  #9
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Nielsen, Abby, and Helm on long-term deals totally over $13 million kind of kills me every time I see this. And to be in a cap crunch without a single star player? What? How?

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06-28-2017, 06:03 PM
  #10
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I don't think Tatar is going to accept less money than Nyquist which is $ 4.75 mil.


Just wait until Larkin and Mantha get new deals next summer. Every penny and than some of the expiring Green contract is going to them. A goalie needs to be moved ASAP to create any form of cap space.

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Old
06-28-2017, 07:41 PM
  #11
Leronziia
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These RFA contracts will be pretty easy to sort out.

Next year? Hah.

Won't be able to keep all your sweethearts, sign veteran UFAs AND sign Larkin and Mantha, Kenny.

Lashoff and McIlrath are back, 2 years, 2 way.

Not gonna be much space for the rookies down there.

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Old
06-29-2017, 07:37 AM
  #12
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlotek View Post
I don't think Tatar is going to accept less money than Nyquist which is $ 4.75 mil.


Just wait until Larkin and Mantha get new deals next summer. Every penny and than some of the expiring Green contract is going to them. A goalie needs to be moved ASAP to create any form of cap space.
Agree i think Tatar gets slightly less AAV then Nyquist but more years, Probably a 6 year $27 million deal with an AAV of $4.5 million give or take.

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Old
06-29-2017, 08:29 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlotek View Post
I don't think Tatar is going to accept less money than Nyquist which is $ 4.75 mil.


Just wait until Larkin and Mantha get new deals next summer. Every penny and than some of the expiring Green contract is going to them. A goalie needs to be moved ASAP to create any form of cap space.
Nyquist had more upside going into his discussions. Tatar is more of a known quantity at this point. I wouldn't be shocked if he comes in at 4.75 or less. 4.5 seems the going rate. I think Number1's suggestion of $4.5 x 6 could be fitting.

Tatar also doesn't have many employee of the month accolades like Helm or Abby, so he can't bank his character for that 7 figure bonus that Helm and Abby got tacked on to their contracts either.

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Old
06-29-2017, 11:45 AM
  #14
Henkka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leronziia View Post
These RFA contracts will be pretty easy to sort out.

Next year? Hah.

Won't be able to keep all your sweethearts, sign veteran UFAs AND sign Larkin and Mantha, Kenny.

Lashoff and McIlrath are back, 2 years, 2 way.

Not gonna be much space for the rookies down there.
Green traded + Cap rise + Weiss lower buyout caphit = enough space for Larkin & Mantha.

Of course, Kenny is forced to uncomfort zone, and can't sign agin vets.

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06-29-2017, 12:00 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlotek View Post
I don't think Tatar is going to accept less money than Nyquist which is $ 4.75 mil.


Just wait until Larkin and Mantha get new deals next summer. Every penny and than some of the expiring Green contract is going to them. A goalie needs to be moved ASAP to create any form of cap space.
Larkin is a must keep,what can we get for Tatar? If he doesn't agree for the same price

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06-29-2017, 12:00 PM
  #16
muchbetterthanlada
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Honestly, I think keeping both goalies another year would be a blessing, as the lack of cap space hopefully keeps KH from digging us into an even deeper hole. If we sign AA, XO and Tats at the estimates listed and don't do anything crazy, major cap relief should be right around the corner.

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06-29-2017, 12:03 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirloinUB View Post
To expand on this, Franzen is eligible for Season Opening Injury Reserve (SOIR).



My interpretation of this: Franzen's contract is functionally free cap space and Holland does not need to do any contract shuffling to utilize that salary.

If my understanding is correct Holland has enough financial flexibility to make this forum have a melt down on July 1st
Thanks for this. Didn't realize there was such a thing as SOIR.

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Old
06-29-2017, 12:44 PM
  #18
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Our salary-to-talent ratio remains a source of bewilderment for me. 73M for about 50M of actual on-ice ability. Yikes.

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06-29-2017, 01:38 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirloinUB View Post
To expand on this, Franzen is eligible for Season Opening Injury Reserve (SOIR).



My interpretation of this: Franzen's contract is functionally free cap space and Holland does not need to do any contract shuffling to utilize that salary.

If my understanding is correct Holland has enough financial flexibility to make this forum have a melt down on July 1st
It sounds to easy for me, like a invitaiton for cheating.

Quote:
What is the season opening injured reserve (SOIR)?
If a player is injured during training-camp, they can be placed on season-opening injured reserve,
Franzen goes to the camp, does some ice-units, then says I have concussion issues, and is of the payroll.

Why are guys like Pronger or Horton not off the payroll or is it a so so rule, the teams can use it to their favour.

You have to reach minimum cap - you don't use the rule
You are in cap trouble - you use the rule

I could not imagine the NHL give the teams a tool like that.

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06-29-2017, 03:26 PM
  #20
SirloinUB
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Originally Posted by 1878rgw View Post
It sounds to easy for me, like a invitaiton for cheating.



Franzen goes to the camp, does some ice-units, then says I have concussion issues, and is of the payroll.

Why are guys like Pronger or Horton not off the payroll or is it a so so rule, the teams can use it to their favour.

You have to reach minimum cap - you don't use the rule
You are in cap trouble - you use the rule

I could not imagine the NHL give the teams a tool like that.
Well you completely disregarded the part where franzen didn't play last season. This is a preexisting injury so the bit you quoted about getting injured in training camp is irrelevant to this scenario.


https://www.capfriendly.com/faq#soir

The CBA seems to support this:
Quote:
A Player who finishes an NHL Season on the
Injured Reserve List and continues to be disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey
Player by reason of the same injury at the time he reports to the Club's Training Camp in the next
League Year, will again be eligible to be placed on the Club's Injured Reserve List. For any
other Player who fails the Club's initial physical examination in any League Year, or is injured,
ill or disabled while not on the Club's Active Roster, he shall not be eligible for, and may not be
placed on, Injured Reserve, but instead shall be eligible to be, and may be designated as, Injured
Non-Roster
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA...A_2013_CBA.pdf


If you have any literature that contradicts, please feel free to enlighten me, but as far as I can tell, Franzen salary is irrelevant to our cap. The team's intentions of chasing some dman would suggest they agree with my conclusions in that they wouldn't have the cap space to grab a dman otherwise.

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Old
06-29-2017, 06:08 PM
  #21
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It doesnt matter if we had cap space Kenny would just use it to overpay more over the hill 3rd/4th liner UFAs anyways.

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06-29-2017, 07:28 PM
  #22
lilidk
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Originally Posted by muchbetterthanlada View Post
Honestly, I think keeping both goalies another year would be a blessing, as the lack of cap space hopefully keeps KH from digging us into an even deeper hole. If we sign AA, XO and Tats at the estimates listed and don't do anything crazy, major cap relief should be right around the corner.

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Old
06-29-2017, 07:50 PM
  #23
CLK Wolverines
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
From capfriendly

Playing roster:
1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. Nielsen - 5.250M
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Tatar - RFA - contract extension estimation ~4.500M
5. Abdelkader - 4.250M
6. Helm - 3.850M
7. Athanasiou - RFA - contract extension estimation ~2.250M
8. Sheahan - 2.075M
9. Glendening - 1.800M
10. Larkin - 1.383M (925k base + 457.5k bonuses from last season)
11. Mantha - 863k
12. Frk - RFA - estimated qualifying offer ~704k
13. Bertuzzi - 662k

LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. DeKeyser - 5.000M
3. Kronwall - 4.750M
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Ouellet - RFA - contract extension estimation ~1.500M
6. Jensen - 812.5k
------------------
7. Sproul - 625k

1a. Howard - 5.292M
1b. Mrazek - 4.000M
3rd Coreau - 612.5k

Other costs:
2016-17 Bonus overage - 457.5k (already mentioned in Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout caphit for 2017-18 - 2.567M
Salary retentions - 0 k

Salary cap: 75 Million.
Current total figures - 73.829M
Cap space: 1.171M

LTIR help: 3.954M (Franzen)
Salary Cap space through Franzen LTIR ~5.125M (with 13+7+3 roster = 23 players)
Long time reader, first time poster.

This team has too many Holland bad contracts.

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Old
06-30-2017, 05:53 PM
  #24
Classicnamesup
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If you really want to go for a ride, look at abdelkaders stats from last season

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06-30-2017, 07:40 PM
  #25
HockeyinHD
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And to fix it he dumps the cheaper, but somewhat more promising young guys.
Who... Smith, Kindl and Nosek? 'Somewhat more promising'?

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