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Red Wings 2017-18 cap discussion

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Old
07-05-2017, 12:01 PM
  #101
Beltv
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Originally Posted by jkutswings View Post
Looking at the numbers, I'm guessing that Franzen frees up about $4M, Tatar will get close to $5M AAV, Athanasiou will get close to $2M AAV, and they hit the cap, so that's it for the off season.

Am I missing anything?
Nope. Pretty much banking on injuries at this point...

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07-05-2017, 12:35 PM
  #102
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Wanna trade Frans back to NYI?

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07-05-2017, 12:48 PM
  #103
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Wanna trade Frans back to NYI?
Yes, not a bad player but a lot better ways to spend his 5.5 mil in the next few years when hopefully Detroit is closer to contending

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07-05-2017, 12:48 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by jkutswings View Post
Looking at the numbers, I'm guessing that Franzen frees up about $4M, Tatar will get close to $5M AAV, Athanasiou will get close to $2M AAV, and they hit the cap, so that's it for the off season.

Am I missing anything?
One question I'm interested in now is if there's any scenario where the Wings can get under the cap for day 1 of the season before activating LTIR on Franzen, or are they resigned to LTIRing him on the last day of training camp?

The $'s in cap space gained from a Franzen LTIR can differ based on that decision.

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07-05-2017, 12:49 PM
  #105
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Wanna trade Frans back to NYI?
Sure for John Tavares.

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07-05-2017, 12:58 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
One question I'm interested in now is if there's any scenario where the Wings can get under the cap for day 1 of the season before activating LTIR on Franzen, or are they resigned to LTIRing him on the last day of training camp?

The $'s in cap space gained from a Franzen LTIR can differ based on that decision.
How long are they allowed to drag out negotiations on the RFAs? That's about the only avenue I see, unless there a guy or two who can hit the minors for a week without risking waivers.

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07-05-2017, 01:16 PM
  #107
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I really don't see the point of re-signing Tatar. Dude isn't going to be here in ten years when the team starts competing. Let him walk.

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07-05-2017, 02:14 PM
  #108
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I really don't see the point of re-signing Tatar. Dude isn't going to be here in ten years when the team starts competing. Let him walk.
Trading Tatar makes a lot of sense, but it won't happen.

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07-05-2017, 02:52 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
One question I'm interested in now is if there's any scenario where the Wings can get under the cap for day 1 of the season before activating LTIR on Franzen, or are they resigned to LTIRing him on the last day of training camp?

The $'s in cap space gained from a Franzen LTIR can differ based on that decision.
Season opening LTIR for a player who missed 100% of the previous season. Can replace their cap hit.

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07-05-2017, 03:31 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
One question I'm interested in now is if there's any scenario where the Wings can get under the cap for day 1 of the season before activating LTIR on Franzen, or are they resigned to LTIRing him on the last day of training camp?

The $'s in cap space gained from a Franzen LTIR can differ based on that decision.
Unless they make some cap shredding trade, I don't see it. I thought they had at least a chance of doing it before the Daley/Witkowski signing.

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07-05-2017, 03:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by jkutswings View Post
How long are they allowed to drag out negotiations on the RFAs? That's about the only avenue I see, unless there a guy or two who can hit the minors for a week without risking waivers.
Depends if arbitration is involved. If a team/player files for arbitration, hearing dates are usually scheduled late July-early August.

If no arbitration, I think Dec. 1st is the cutoff date.

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07-05-2017, 05:06 PM
  #112
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Had some mistake on my earlier numbers.

Update:

Playing roster:
1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. Nielsen - 5.250M
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Tatar - RFA - contract extension estimation ~4.5M
5. Abdelkader - 4.250M
6. Helm - 3.850M
7. Sheahan - 2.075M
8. Glendening - 1.800M
9. Athanasiou - RFA - contract extension estimation ~1.7M
10. Larkin - 1.383M (925k base + 457.5k bonuses from last season)
11. Mantha - 863k
12. Frk - RFA - estimated qualifying offer ~704k
13. Witkowski - 700k
14. Bertuzzi - 662k

LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. DeKeyser - 5.000M
3. Kronwall - 4.750M
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Daley - 3.167M
6. Ouellet - 1.25M
7. Jensen - 812.5k
8. Sproul - 625k

1a. Howard - 5.292M
1b. Mrazek - 4.000M
3rd Coreau - 612.5k

Other costs:
2016-17 Bonus overage - 457.5k (already mentioned in Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout caphit for 2017-18 - 2.567M
Salary retentions - 0 k

Salary cap: 75 Million.
Current total figures - 80.189M
Cap space: -5.189M

LTIR help: 3.954M (Franzen)
Salary Cap space through Franzen LTIR ~-1.234M (with 14+8+3 roster = 25 players)

Capfriendly also counts some POTENTIAL performance bonuses to this season numbers. Those are a bit misleading on total numbers, because they can slide to next season. I haven't taken them account.

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Old
07-05-2017, 05:08 PM
  #113
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So, 1.234M over the cap with 25 players. This is basicly 2 times NHL mimimum salary.

Send Bertuzzi down, and waive one of Frk/Witkowski/Sproul/Coreau.

Or keep Bert up and waive two.

I'm quite sure someone will get injured before the season start, like almost always, and we don't have to waive anybody.

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07-05-2017, 05:31 PM
  #114
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Wait for someone to get injured is Holland 's favorite cap management and development strategy.

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07-05-2017, 05:45 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Wait for someone to get injured is Holland 's favorite cap management and development strategy.
Not to mention his favorite "roster management" strategy of waiting for waiver exempts to run out, then "making tough decisions".

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07-05-2017, 05:51 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by StargateSG1 View Post
Not to mention his favorite "roster management" strategy of waiting for waiver exempts to run out, then "making tough decisions".
And what is wrong on these situations?

Does it kill our future somehow?

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07-05-2017, 05:58 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by StargateSG1 View Post
Not to mention his favorite "roster management" strategy of waiting for waiver exempts to run out, then "making tough decisions".
Not like those players were making the decision any easier while they were exempt. Frk and Pulks weren't exactly setting the world on fire in their exemption years.

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07-05-2017, 06:02 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
And what is wrong on these situations?

Does it kill our future somehow?
Certainly prolongs the life of a bunch of veterans who aren't very good anymore.

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07-05-2017, 06:02 PM
  #119
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And what is wrong on these situations?

Does it kill our future somehow?
It shouldn't take 5 years to "evaluate" the players ALL the Time.
Jensen was waived, cause the roster is always clogged with unmovable "Veterans".

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07-05-2017, 06:07 PM
  #120
Henkka
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Originally Posted by StargateSG1 View Post
It shouldn't take 5 years to "evaluate" the players ALL the Time.
Jensen was waived, cause the roster is always clogged with unmovable "Veterans".
Jensen was waived, because on early days, he wasn't any better than them, until now.

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07-05-2017, 06:21 PM
  #121
StargateSG1
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Jensen was waived, because on early days, he wasn't any better than them, until now.
Yeah, ok..
So he just came out of nowhere to be the best D for us last season.
No one could see it for years, it's a miracle!

Newsflash, he played really well in the training camp one season, and was still sent down.

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07-05-2017, 06:34 PM
  #122
jolly roger
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Had some mistake on my earlier numbers.

Update:

Playing roster:
1. Zetterberg - 6.083M
2. Nielsen - 5.250M
3. Nyquist - 4.750M
4. Tatar - RFA - contract extension estimation ~4.5M
5. Abdelkader - 4.250M
6. Helm - 3.850M
7. Sheahan - 2.075M
8. Glendening - 1.800M
9. Athanasiou - RFA - contract extension estimation ~1.7M
10. Larkin - 1.383M (925k base + 457.5k bonuses from last season)
11. Mantha - 863k
12. Frk - RFA - estimated qualifying offer ~704k
13. Witkowski - 700k
14. Bertuzzi - 662k

LTIR, Franzen - 3.954M

1. Green - 6.000M
2. DeKeyser - 5.000M
3. Kronwall - 4.750M
4. Ericsson - 4.250M
5. Daley - 3.167M
6. Ouellet - 1.25M
7. Jensen - 812.5k
8. Sproul - 625k

1a. Howard - 5.292M
1b. Mrazek - 4.000M
3rd Coreau - 612.5k

Other costs:
2016-17 Bonus overage - 457.5k (already mentioned in Larkin salary)
Weiss buyout caphit for 2017-18 - 2.567M
Salary retentions - 0 k

Salary cap: 75 Million.
Current total figures - 80.189M
Cap space: -5.189M

LTIR help: 3.954M (Franzen)
Salary Cap space through Franzen LTIR ~-1.234M (with 14+8+3 roster = 25 players)

Capfriendly also counts some POTENTIAL performance bonuses to this season numbers. Those are a bit misleading on total numbers, because they can slide to next season. I haven't taken them account.
Why would AA take less than Sheahan? That's absurd.

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Old
07-05-2017, 07:20 PM
  #123
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I'd be shocked if Tatar ends up at $4.5M AAV. The kid could probably find at least one idiot to give him $5.5M in free agency. And it's not like a new rink would be worth both a bad team AND getting less money than on the open market.

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07-05-2017, 10:47 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by StargateSG1 View Post
Yeah, ok..
So he just came out of nowhere to be the best D for us last season.
No one could see it for years, it's a miracle!

Newsflash, he played really well in the training camp one season, and was still sent down.
Newsflash, he isn't even that good now, a 6th D on a bad team, at best. He would easily not be in the lineup of probably at least 20 other teams. A few years ago he was even less ready, so who would he have replaced, because he is so good. Also, he was easily not our best defender last year, Green was by a mile.

If players are good enough, they make the team, when they aren't they don't. Larkin was good right off the hop, made the team, Pulkkinen, Jurco, etc. weren't, so they didn't.

None of the guys we have lost on waivers are anything special.

Nestrasil
Frk
Pulkkinen
Marchenko
Ferraro
Jensen (Waived and not claimed)

If they weren't special or good, when lost on waivers/given up on, why would they be in the lineup, 2/3/4 years sooner, when they were even less developed. Not saying the Wings never give up too soon, or develop too long, more that we really haven't lost anyone that great. Probably the best is Jarnkrok, and even he is only a 3rd/4th line defensive player.

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07-05-2017, 10:48 PM
  #125
Oddbob
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Originally Posted by jkutswings View Post
I'd be shocked if Tatar ends up at $4.5M AAV. The kid could probably find at least one idiot to give him $5.5M in free agency. And it's not like a new rink would be worth both a bad team AND getting less money than on the open market.
He isn't unrestricted though, and Tatar isn't going to be a player that gets offer-sheeted.

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