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Nashville Signs Scott Hartnell [1 YR, $1M]

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Old
06-29-2017, 08:11 PM
  #1
Basher
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Nashville Signs Scott Hartnell [1 YR, $1M]

"Bull" Hartnell is a free agent


Pros:
Should be on decent wages at this point
Used to play with Johansen
Veteran leadership
Used to play for Lavy
Fan favorite (I think)

Cons:
Penalties
Limited production
Age
Decline in skillset


Last edited by Jonesey: 07-01-2017 at 01:20 PM.
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06-29-2017, 09:30 PM
  #2
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If more attractive choices fell through I'd sign him for one year. Doubt he would accept anything less than 2 years though. In summary, I feel kind of meh either way.

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06-29-2017, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
"Bull" Hartnell is a free agent


Pros:
Should be on decent wages at this point
Used to play with Johansen
Veteran leadership
Used to play for Lavy
Fan favorite (I think)

Cons:
Penalties
Limited production
Age
Decline in skillset
The pros mean almost nothing while the cons say he's a terrible hockey player. If we're paying him to play hockey, being a bad hockey player is not a good thing.

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06-29-2017, 09:50 PM
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Mortiest Morty
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The pros mean almost nothing while the cons say he's a terrible hockey player. If we're paying him to play hockey, being a bad hockey player is not a good thing.
The cons are wrong. He's an elite 5-on-5 producer. He finished top 10 in the entire league in points/60. Better than anyone on the Preds. He had more assists and first assists/60 than any Preds player as well, same goes for 15-16 too. Still a fantastic passer. No limited production or decline in skillset, not yet. He does take too many penalties though, that's fair.

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06-29-2017, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
The cons are wrong. He's an elite 5-on-5 producer. He finished top 10 in the entire league in points/60. Better than anyone on the Preds. He had more assists and first assists/60 than any Preds player as well, same goes for 15-16 too. Still a fantastic passer. No limited production or decline in skillset, not yet. He does take too many penalties though, that's fair.
Well we are looking to replace Neal's production, right???

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06-30-2017, 07:14 AM
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He actually toned down the PIMs last season, which was a welcome change.

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06-30-2017, 07:41 AM
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I think we already have a younger and cheaper Hartnell in Austin Watson.

I hated when we let Hartnell go but it's a business.

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06-30-2017, 07:44 AM
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I think we already have a younger and cheaper Hartnell in Austin Watson.

I hated when we let Hartnell go but it's a business.
We let Hartnell go because of Leipolds "BuSiness" with emphasis on the B and the S.

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06-30-2017, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by KurtAngle View Post
I think we already have a younger and cheaper Hartnell in Austin Watson.

I hated when we let Hartnell go but it's a business.
I could not disagree more. Right now Watson is a bit of a banger whom one hopes might someday get to the skill level Hartnell already has. Maybe someday in the future Watson might get there, but personally I'm skeptical.

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06-30-2017, 07:51 AM
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I could not disagree more. Right now Watson is a bit of a banger whom one hopes might someday get to the skill level Hartnell already has. Maybe someday in the future Watson might get there, but personally I'm skeptical.
Yeah Watson was drafted to be a Hartnell type player but has not yet shown the scoring touch at this level and has earned his spot with physical play rather than scoring

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06-30-2017, 07:54 AM
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I could not disagree more. Right now Watson is a bit of a banger whom one hopes might someday get to the skill level Hartnell already has. Maybe someday in the future Watson might get there, but personally I'm skeptical.
I agree about Watson, but I think at this point it's not worth the risk to sign a "best days behind him" Hartnell when the team did rather well with Watson. It's not like there is a huge gap between Hartnell and Watson.

But my view is I don't see a big need to rush into signing much of anyone except a few depth guys. This is a team who could have and maybe would have won the Cup. I'm willing to see if the Watsons, Sissons, and a few can elevate their games.

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06-30-2017, 07:56 AM
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I want Hartnell bad. Legit 2nd line winger to replace Neal and go to the front on the powerplay. Has a great p/60 and is already a fan favorite.

As for the Hartnell vs. Watson thing....wut. I know HERO Charts aren't the end-all-be-all but when they're this far apart it's a good indication.


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06-30-2017, 08:07 AM
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As usual, for an okay price I'd be fine with having him. I think he's still a solid contributor, as I saw more of him after I started watching more Jackets games following the Jones trade. I can't help but think he'd like to play here and potentially finish where he started.

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06-30-2017, 08:41 AM
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On a 1 year deal maybe. If he wants 2-3 years pass.

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06-30-2017, 08:43 AM
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Don't want him.

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06-30-2017, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I want Hartnell bad. Legit 2nd line winger to replace Neal and go to the front on the powerplay. Has a great p/60 and is already a fan favorite.

As for the Hartnell vs. Watson thing....wut. I know HERO Charts aren't the end-all-be-all but when they're this far apart it's a good indication.

2nd line wingers play more than 12:00 a game.

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06-30-2017, 09:50 AM
  #17
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Hartnell is no longer a 2nd line winger. Play him on the 3rd or 4th line and heavily on the PP. He and Watson on the 4th line would be a heavy, hard line to play against while not being an offensive black hole.

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06-30-2017, 10:28 AM
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2nd line wingers play more than 12:00 a game.
Sure, but he actually produced at a 1st line level despite the low icetime. He was 60th in the entire league in 5-on-5 points. 7th in the entire league in points/60. 1st line numbers with 3rd line icetime, that's ****ing fantastic.

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06-30-2017, 10:55 AM
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2nd line wingers play more than 12:00 a game.
Hartnell was up against Saad, Jenner, and Foligno for playing time.

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06-30-2017, 11:08 AM
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I'd love to have him back, but I don't for one second think Hartnell is some elite scoring winger just because a chart says he's great, P/60 doesn't mean anything either. I like advanced stats, and I hope they figure it out one day... but if your stats say Hartnell is a top-10 player, then your stats are flawed.

Again, love the player, I want him back. It might not go that far to replacing Neal however since Harts is a LW, unless he flipped or Fiala flipped. But even if they both stayed at LW, it would just mean bumping Fiala down a line which wouldn't be horrible. We'd still need a center at the very least.

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06-30-2017, 11:12 AM
  #21
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Don't want him.
Not surprising, since I do want him

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06-30-2017, 11:17 AM
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I'd love to have him back, but I don't for one second think Hartnell is some elite scoring winger just because a chart says he's great, P/60 doesn't mean anything either. I like advanced stats, and I hope they figure it out one day... but if your stats say Hartnell is a top-10 player, then your stats are flawed.

Again, love the player, I want him back. It might not go that far to replacing Neal however since Harts is a LW, unless he flipped or Fiala flipped. But even if they both stayed at LW, it would just mean bumping Fiala down a line which wouldn't be horrible. We'd still need a center at the very least.
I'm a big believer in advanced stats, obviously, but you're mis-characterizing a bit. Just because Hartnell was 7th in points/60 doesn't mean he's a top 10 player, no one stat like that encompasses everything (WAR and GAR and Game Score are trying). But it is a good indicator that he was under-utilized and could take a big step forward in raw points given the chance. All he has to do to be a 2nd line winger is be in the top 124 wingers overall. That's pretty good.

FWIW I'm pretty sure ever stat in a HERO chart is done on a per 60 minutes basis, so ice time shouldn't really matter. But either way, it's a tool, not different than any other tool, for player evaluation. I would never say a player is 100% better than another just cause they have more points of a better CF% or something, but if all of them point one direction it's a good sign.

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06-30-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Hartnell was up against Saad, Jenner, and Foligno for playing time.
Ok, I'll counter that with if he was a true 2nd line winger, he would have played more and would have had trade value.

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06-30-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I'm a big believer in advanced stats, obviously, but you're mis-characterizing a bit. Just because Hartnell was 7th in points/60 doesn't mean he's a top 10 player, no one stat like that encompasses everything (WAR and GAR and Game Score are trying). But it is a good indicator that he was under-utilized and could take a big step forward in raw points given the chance. All he has to do to be a 2nd line winger is be in the top 124 wingers overall. That's pretty good.

FWIW I'm pretty sure ever stat in a HERO chart is done on a per 60 minutes basis, so ice time shouldn't really matter. But either way, it's a tool, not different than any other tool, for player evaluation. I would never say a player is 100% better than another just cause they have more points of a better CF% or something, but if all of them point one direction it's a good sign.
But per 60 as I said is meaningless. It assumes that a player will produce at the same rate regardless of ice-time, but it has no way to account for fatigue, increased use in different situations, chemistry with different player types, quality of opposing lines faced, etc. Most players who are good 4th liners, and produce well for a 4th liner, would completely fall apart if they were pushed into 2nd line minutes.

This goes back to the Bonino debate. There's no way i'd throw $4M at him and ask him to be our 2C. There's no chart that is going to convince me that it's worth that risk when I've seen plenty of his games and can tell just by watching him play that he's not worth that money, nor capable of succeeding in that position.

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06-30-2017, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortiest Morty View Post
The cons are wrong. He's an elite 5-on-5 producer. He finished top 10 in the entire league in points/60. Better than anyone on the Preds. He had more assists and first assists/60 than any Preds player as well, same goes for 15-16 too. Still a fantastic passer. No limited production or decline in skillset, not yet. He does take too many penalties though, that's fair.
I don't think his numbers and ice time have dropped over past couple years because he's an elite 5v5 guy. Do I think he is still a good player and able to produce? Yes, absolutely. But I'm not going to bet on him getting better as he ages at this point - he's going to slow down some, but given the right system, could still be a fantastic get.

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