HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Khurshudyan: Caps have re-signed defenseman Dmitry Orlov to a six-year deal. $5.1 mil

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-30-2017, 11:55 AM
  #51
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,773
vCash: 500
I like Orlov and Oshie both so I'm not bothered by these deals...yet. I also want to see a lot of new, young blood on this team so if paying some of the good guys more means bringing in fresh legs/brains then that's great.

I would not shed a tear if Carlson were traded to make room for the future, either.

__________________
g00n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 11:57 AM
  #52
marcel snapshot
Registered User
 
marcel snapshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,014
vCash: 500
You guys might be right - but the front-loading for Orly means you'll have to have as generous (or more so) a sweetener at the start for Carlson after next year.

marcel snapshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 12:00 PM
  #53
Acallabeth
Curses & prophecies
 
Acallabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near an airfield
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 9,043
vCash: 500
If he makes another step forward, it's instantly a very good deal. Like it.

Acallabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 12:05 PM
  #54
Stewie G
Needed more hitting!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Extended time when Orlov still gets the same tough top pair matchups will be the only thing that proves Orlov is for real as a top-pair guy. For me, that's all I'm saying.
Sounds like the way the previous management used to hand out contracts. Brooks Laich, Tom Poti, Steckel, etc., etc.. This is how you force yourself into paying full price.

I'm glad to see management being proactive. They know Orlov is getting a bigger role this year and are betting his numbers keep improving. If they went with a bridge deal, they might be looking at a much bigger number. Think P.K. Subban.

Stewie G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 12:16 PM
  #55
Skrudland2Lomakin
Registered User
 
Skrudland2Lomakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,169
vCash: 500
I said it on the main board, but I reiterate, if Shattenkirk gets this deal it's hailed as a steal. Both Blues and Caps fans would say it's an overpayment, it just goes to show how few HF posters watch the games. Orlov is not a house hold name therefore he is not worth the money in their minds.

Skrudland2Lomakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 12:29 PM
  #56
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
The front-loaded dollars does at least suggest fear that the team won't be generating as much revenue in the out years of the contract. Organization anticipating a decline in attendance 2-3 years from now?
Player's (and their financial representation) like front-loaded deals because it gets money in their pocket sooner, which means they can make additional money via investments and/or interest. Or buy a house.

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 12:29 PM
  #57
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,773
vCash: 500
One effect this may have, intended or not, is that other deals coming this weekend may end up larger than some teams had anticipated. So by paying Orlov a little more than you maybe could have, you end up costing your competition more as well.

/optimism

g00n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 04:00 PM
  #58
M1K3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningEdge View Post
The only thing that matters is the cap hit. What Orlov actually gets paid doesn't matter. It's the avg cap hit.
Not entirely true.

If you are a small market team like say Arizona and unable to spend to to the full capacity of the cap, the cap hit really doesn't matter that much, since they simply aren't able to spend that cap space regardless.

Say Chayka needs to reach the cap floor. To do so he has to add a cap hit of say 2 million. Chayka trades for Orlov and GMBM retain 50% of his salary. The deal comes with a cap hit of 2.55 million. However since Orlov's deal was frontloaded Chayka only have to pay him 1.65 million in actual dollars. Arizona is now cap compliant and Chayka still has a full million left in actual dollars to spend on another player.

Cap circumvention at its finest. Don't be fooled. There's a reason that so many GM's opts to fronload longer contracts to make them financially more appealing down the road.

M1K3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 04:06 PM
  #59
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 37,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Sounds like the way the previous management used to hand out contracts. Brooks Laich, Tom Poti, Steckel, etc., etc.. This is how you force yourself into paying full price.

I'm glad to see management being proactive. They know Orlov is getting a bigger role this year and are betting his numbers keep improving. If they went with a bridge deal, they might be looking at a much bigger number. Think P.K. Subban.
It's also how teams get stuck with bad contracts, by guessing wrong on long term offers. Plenty of examples of that. The Caps have to hit on a few of these like they did with Carlson and Backstrom. I look forward to seeing if Orlov can become an all situations defender. If he does well, this contract will be a bargain on 2 years.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 04:09 PM
  #60
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 37,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrudland2Lomakin View Post
I said it on the main board, but I reiterate, if Shattenkirk gets this deal it's hailed as a steal. Both Blues and Caps fans would say it's an overpayment, it just goes to show how few HF posters watch the games. Orlov is not a house hold name therefore he is not worth the money in their minds.
It would be a steal because S22 is a 50pt defender and the top UFA D, not because of name recognition or not. You are right though. Even when people watch a lot of games, doesn't mean they're paying attention like you do when the guy is on your own team.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 05:20 PM
  #61
Revelation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
He's easily worth 5.5+ on the open market (probably 6 since Carle and Wisnewski were 5.5 mil D) and he kept getting jerked around contract wise up until this year so it's a more than fair deal.

But they'd have probably been better off trading him for the best return before ED, protecting Schmidt and using the extra cap space and return to bolster the roster. There'd have been a downgrade from Orlov to Schmidt but cap + assets would have more than made up for it.

Revelation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 07:24 PM
  #62
twabby
Registered User
 
twabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,322
vCash: 500
The only concern I have is on the PP. He has all of the offensive tools in the world including a good shot but I'm not really sure how he fits in their current setup. Maybe they just ignore handedness or maybe they do something different than the 1-3-1 on the second unit. I'm interested to find out because I doubt Orlov won't be on that second unit to start the season.

Absolutely no concern about him as a PKer. If he's given the time he'll do just as well as anyone else in that role. PKing simply isn't that hard IMO. In his limited time he's been largely good.

Also not concerned about him getting the tough assignments starting next year. After Game 3 against Toronto Orlov and Niskanen got the tough assignments and did fine and certainly much better than 27, 74, and 44 did when they got the same assignments. There's an inherent binning bias when it comes with evaluating QoC (and QoT for that matter). How much more difficult are the minutes faced by "shutdown pairs" compared to second pairs? Orlov and Niskanen slaughtered the competition getting second pairing duties (in terms of QoC). There's absolutely no reason to expect them not to keep performing well in the top shutdown role because second pairing QoC isn't vastly different than first pairing QoC, especially when you factor in QoT as well.

twabby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 07:53 PM
  #63
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 37,204
vCash: 500
Right anybody can PK I forgot.

If anything I worry about him most in that role. He can't play zone D PKing. He's going to get matched up against the other teams bigger and likely equally skilled guys in front of the net. If he can't handle the physical part, he'll be exposed quickly. I think their plan will be to work him into the PP absolutely and hope he can play decent on the PK. If they get that, he's earning his $ IMO.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 09:08 PM
  #64
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,836
vCash: 500
Orlov did fine in a PKing role while Alzner was out in the playoffs. And that was against some pretty good offensive opponents.

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 10:35 PM
  #65
Revelation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,596
vCash: 500
Orlov could just sneak into a #44 jersey before every PK and flail around and cross check guys into Holtby as the puck goes in and be applauded for his gutsy gritty veteran pksmanship

Revelation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2017, 11:27 PM
  #66
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,836
vCash: 500
Imagine how apoplectic HFCaps would be if this came to fruition
https://www.russianmachineneverbreak...g-cska-moscow/

Hivemind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2017, 03:00 AM
  #67
philip
dismember
 
philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: England
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
It's a lot of money for someone who's been so injury prone in the past. Here's to hoping he can stay healthy and keep improving. I like his game and he's not likely to suddenly become worse

philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2017, 05:43 AM
  #68
Acallabeth
Curses & prophecies
 
Acallabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near an airfield
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 9,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
It's a lot of money for someone who's been so injury prone in the past. Here's to hoping he can stay healthy and keep improving. I like his game and he's not likely to suddenly become worse
He had one relatively major injury with consequent bad surgery complications and is coming off back to back 82 game seasons, he's not injury prone...

Acallabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2017, 07:38 AM
  #69
Raikkonen
In GMBT we trust
 
Raikkonen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 6,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
He had one relatively major injury with consequent bad surgery complications and is coming off back to back 82 game seasons, he's not injury prone...
How about concussion(s) in the AHL prior to that hand injury?

I mean, that is a fact, but you still have to sign him anyway. Many players had concussions (Mojo, Backstrom, Oshie), I guess even Ovi, Caps just didn't publish that.

Bottom line: Orlov is not iron man. But he was relatively healthy lately.

Raikkonen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2017, 08:34 AM
  #70
Eazy for Kuzy
Forever a Caps fan
 
Eazy for Kuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: France
Posts: 21,130
vCash: 439
Signing Orlov and Oshie before July 1st shows that GMBM has his priorities straight. Locked up our best winger and our 2nd best D for the right price.

Eazy for Kuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 12:53 PM
  #71
LetsGoBears
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
One effect this may have, intended or not, is that other deals coming this weekend may end up larger than some teams had anticipated. So by paying Orlov a little more than you maybe could have, you end up costing your competition more as well.

/optimism
Shultz at 5.5mil for 3 years. Yeah, I like Orlov's deal a little more and it could look better than Shatty's in a year or two. That being said, I think GMBM is giving up too much term overall.

LetsGoBears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 03:35 PM
  #72
Stewie G
Needed more hitting!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
It's also how teams get stuck with bad contracts, by guessing wrong on long term offers. Plenty of examples of that. The Caps have to hit on a few of these like they did with Carlson and Backstrom. I look forward to seeing if Orlov can become an all situations defender. If he does well, this contract will be a bargain on 2 years.
No solid organization would ever be "guessing" on contracts. Lots of bad organizations pay for past performance or for outlier seasons or for the guy who says all the right things to the press, etc. Let's hope the Caps have moved past that.

Stewie G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.