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Old
06-30-2017, 12:04 PM
  #51
AvsGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
I'll take a draft picks only return before Ekholm and it's not even close.

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06-30-2017, 12:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Because some people would rather suck for the next 2 years and have a shot at the Stanley Cup in 5 years than being a bubble team for the next 5 years.
The Edmonton Oilers from 2007-2016 say hello.
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Does he actually solve it, or does he just come closer to solving it than EJ / Barrie / current-Zads?
Personally, I think he actually solves it. Especially if he's playing with EJ. A true top pairing that could play 25 minutes per night for the next few years is something not a lot of teams have.
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Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Maybe we're overvaluing him, but I'm incredibly high on him. His possession stats have screamed #1D for a few years now. His offensive production is definitely something I'd like to see improve a little but he's still averaging 30pts per 82 games over the last 2 years which is solid, though not great. That's while being one of the 5-10 best in the entire NHL at suppressing shots in that same time frame which I think evens out actual production.

Plus the eye test passes with flying colors. a 6'4 defenseman shouldn't physically be possible to be as smooth out there as he is. I love his game and even with his playoff hype I still think he's one of the NHL's hidden gems.
I've liked Ekholm for a long time now. I'd easily trade Matt Duchene for him.
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Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
You don't build a team of all youngsters, but when your core is that of guys who are U23 then it really doesn't make sense to add a 27 year old to the core, especially when you still need to find another youngster with a more potential.

This is the type of trade a team makes to complete a roster, not one at the start of a rebuild.
I disagree. You don't have a U23 team and throw everyone to the wolves. The Sabres damn near ruined Nikita Zadorov that way. Ditto the Oilers with Justin Schultz. Ekholm not only gives us a true top pairing defensemen for 5 years, he allows the slow(er) development of Zadorov, Bigras, Makar, Meloche, and Timmins. They will come into professional hockey knowing they have shelter and don't have to face the McDavid's/Getzlaf's/Johansen's/etc on a nightly basis from the get-go.

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06-30-2017, 12:09 PM
  #53
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I really hope its not a 1 for 1 but ill accept it.

And im sure Joe will too. It'll def play well amongst the TSN crowd

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:10 PM
  #54
Pierce Hawthorne
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Duchene for Ekholm would be pretty fantastic. Love Ekholms game and he'd immediately be a huge boost to our Defense. Unfortunately I cant see Nashville ever trading him or anyone else in that Top 4.


Fabbro + Kamenv + Sissons + 2018 1st would be amazing as well, but cant see Duchene returning that good of a futures package either. He's just not that good and not that valuable.

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06-30-2017, 12:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
The Edmonton Oilers from 2007-2016 say hello.
The Oilers had a combination of bad coaching, management, scouting, and development.

I'm tired of people citing them as a reason to not tank. There's no salvaging much from a 48 point team, you need to start cutting guys lose and rebuild and you have to do it through the draft because what you trade when it's devalued won't bring in the core pieces you need, it'll only bring in the secondary ones.

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06-30-2017, 12:13 PM
  #56
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[QUOTE=Pierce Hawthorne;134142405]Duchene for Ekholm would be pretty fantastic. Love Ekholms game and he'd immediately be a huge boost to our Defense. Unfortunately I cant see Nashville ever trading him or anyone else in that Top 4.


Fabbro + Kamenv + Sissons + 2018 1st would be amazing as well, but cant see Duchene returning that good of a futures package either. He's just not that good and not that valuable.[/QUOTE]

To Joe Sakic he is! Really hope Duchene is gone by tomorrow.

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06-30-2017, 12:16 PM
  #57
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Columbus got 19 year old Jones out of Nashville for RyJo. Just saying.

Ekholm-EJ would be a lower-end but still a legit NHL caliber top pairing. Both on the wrong side of their primes. What a waste.

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06-30-2017, 12:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
This team needs a #1D, plain and simple. Ekholm is not in the mold of Karlsson/Doughty/Hedman/etc but he sure as hell is closer to them than EJ is.

He solves the biggest need this team has and will solve it for the next half-decade. What more do people want?
A roster good enough to win a cup. That ain't happening with Ekholm as a #1, or anyone else in our system IMO. Next year's draft is really our only option for that guy, and adding Ekholm now will probably hurt our draft position. It would be awesome if we could trade for a prospect a little bit older, but those guys are not being traded and when they are Sakic doesn't have the balls to risk the price for an unproven talent.

We are going to be stuck in mediocrity until we get a superstar D (or Crosby/McDavid).

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:17 PM
  #59
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Some of you need to realize that you can't just draft players and hope the team magically gets better. You can't just expect the team to wake up one day and say "hey, now we're a playoff team." If they keeping losing then they are just going to **** the next group of kids over here as well. Another 2-3 years of this crap and MacKinnon is going to inundated with losing, so will Rantanen, so will Zadorov, etc. Go ask the Edmonton Oilers how that strategy worked out. Why the hell so many people are all aboard the 'moar draft picks' and 'tank for Dahlin' bandwagon is beyond me. Picks bust, picks take years to turn out. At best they get an 18% shot at Dahlin. If the Avs get a chance to get a 27 year old top pairing calibre, left handed defensman signed for 5 more years, you take it. If Nashville offers Ekholm for Duchene, you take that every day all day over picks from the Isles or other crap like that.


The idea that by sucking for 2 more years the team can then become a cup contender 3 years after that is more of a fantasy than reality. Bidding on 'next years pick' is all teams like the Oilers and Avs have done for years. Ekholm would be a brilliant pick up - way better than Hamonic in every conceivable way.


The team needs to become a 'mediocre playoff team' before we can talk about being cup contenders. They were literally just one of the worst teams in league history. There are 5 steps between where they are now and genuine cup contender status. Let's try to take the first ~2 steps first before we talk about 4 and 5.

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:18 PM
  #60
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalancheFan19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Duchene for Ekholm would be pretty fantastic. Love Ekholms game and he'd immediately be a huge boost to our Defense. Unfortunately I cant see Nashville ever trading him or anyone else in that Top 4.


Fabbro + Kamenv + Sissons + 2018 1st would be amazing as well, but cant see Duchene returning that good of a futures package either. He's just not that good and not that valuable.
To Joe Sakic he is! Really hope Duchene is gone by tomorrow.

I hope so to, but I think as long as Joe continues with this massive overvaluing of Duchene like he has for the last 2 years pretty much now, we wont see anything happen once again tomorrow.



Our best bet was most likely with the Islanders when they offered Hamonic + 1st + prospect.


Without even knowing who that prospect was. Just flipping Hamonic to the Flames for a 2018 1st + 2018 2nd + optional 2019/2020 2nd along with the other pieces would have been a great haul.


basically would have entered into next years draft with 3 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and another 2 2nd round picks for the 2019 draft. A massive amount of future pieces and Joe could've done as he pleased with those picks over the next year.

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:20 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Columbus got 19 year old Jones out of Nashville for RyJo. Just saying.

Ekholm-EJ would be a lower-end but still a legit NHL caliber top pairing. Both on the wrong side of their primes. What a waste.
Ekholm has trended up every year of his short 4 year career so far. What makes you so confident that he's going to start trending down starting now?

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06-30-2017, 12:21 PM
  #62
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Dreger is saying Dreger things about this.

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:23 PM
  #63
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If w trade Duchene you know damn well we are adding because that's what we do. Be it a pick or a roster player we are adding.

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:24 PM
  #64
Pierce Hawthorne
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Ekholm isn't on the wrong side of his prime either. That's ridiculous.


He just turned 27, and has only been in the league for 4 seasons. He's probably only just entering his prime at this stage. Dmen of his style and caliber usually play from like 26-31/32 as the prime years, and are still extremely effective into the mid 30s.


Ekholm would be a quality Top 2 guy for us at least for another 5 years, and a quality Top 4 guy for 7-8 years. Easily worth the pick up if he were to become available.


Same thing applies to Ellis, Josi, and Subban. If Nashville is willing to move any one of those 4 for Duchene, we do that trade 10/10 times.

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:25 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Some of you need to realize that you can't just draft players and hope the team magically gets better. You can't just expect the team to wake up one day and say "hey, now we're a playoff team." If they keeping losing then they are just going to **** the next group of kids over here as well. Another 2-3 years of this crap and MacKinnon is going to inundated with losing, so will Rantanen, so will Zadorov, etc. Go ask the Edmonton Oilers how that strategy worked out. Why the hell so many people are all aboard the 'moar draft picks' and 'tank for Dahlin' bandwagon is beyond me. Picks bust, picks take years to turn out. At best they get an 18% shot at Dahlin. If the Avs get a chance to get a 27 year old top pairing calibre, left handed defensman signed for 5 more years, you take it. If Nashville offers Ekholm for Duchene, you take that every day all day over picks from the Isles or other crap like that.


The idea that by sucking for 2 more years the team can then become a cup contender 3 years after that is more of a fantasy than reality. Bidding on 'next years pick' is all teams like the Oilers and Avs have done for years. Ekholm would be a brilliant pick up - way better than Hamonic in every conceivable way.


The team needs to become a 'mediocre playoff team' before we can talk about being cup contenders. They were literally just one of the worst teams in league history. There are 5 steps between where they are now and genuine cup contender status. Let's try to take the first ~2 steps first before we talk about 4 and 5.

This team needs another couple of top end talents before they can go anywhere.

And the only way to get that is via the draft. Like it or not but aside from maybe MacKinnon (not a sure thing), I don't think we have one single piece on this roster or in the system right now that can be the kind of elite player you need to win a cup.

Of course you can turn this into a bubble team/1st round exit pretender if we make the moves you desire but I'd rather not.

There is a reason why LA, CHI, EDM, PIT, WSH, (and maybe soon Toronto) etc. got out of the cellar permanently and other teams that rebuilt at the same time did not.

They hit big on their high draft picks. The Avs haven't.

IMO this current group of players (regardless if it is Ekholm or Duchene) will never be good enough to achieve much. Let alone come close to the cup.

I'd rather suck for another year or two to get the pieces needed to become a good team for the next decade + instead of rushing this once again without having the necessary talent to do much in the future.

But that is just me.

Ultimately I want to see my team win another cup or atleast have a shot at it. I don't really enjoy being a bubble team or a hopeless first round exit year after year all that much.

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Old
06-30-2017, 12:26 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Ekholm isn't on the wrong side of his prime either. That's ridiculous.


He just turned 27, and has only been in the league for 4 seasons. He's probably only just entering his prime at this stage. Dmen of his style and caliber usually play from like 26-31/32 as the prime years, and are still extremely effective into the mid 30s.


Ekholm would be a quality Top 2 guy for us at least for another 5 years, and a quality Top 4 guy for 7-8 years. Easily worth the pick up if he were to become available.


Same thing applies to Ellis, Josi, and Subban. If Nashville is willing to move any one of those 4 for Duchene, we SHOULD do that trade 10/10 times.
Fixed. I don't think Poile is touching that top 4 nor should he.

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06-30-2017, 12:30 PM
  #67
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I swear some people here would rather suck forever and live off the "potential success" a draft pick may bring.
1 more season...where we won't be good even if we brought in Ekholm & Radulov, and Soderberg went back to caring...= forever; good to know.

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06-30-2017, 12:30 PM
  #68
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Fixed. I don't think Poile is touching that top 4 nor should he.
true, knowing Sakic once Poile agrees to a trade Joe would be like "Actually we want Ekholm AND Ellis for Duchene, not just one of them. Oh and Fabbro. And a 1st".

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06-30-2017, 12:32 PM
  #69
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I've liked Ekholm for a long time now. I'd easily trade Matt Duchene for him.
I would to...a year from now.

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06-30-2017, 12:36 PM
  #70
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I would to...a year from now.
That's not how it works

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06-30-2017, 12:48 PM
  #71
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1 more season...where we won't be good even if we brought in Ekholm & Radulov, and Soderberg went back to caring...= forever; good to know.
Ha yes, this is all changed next year!! Haven't heard that before...

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06-30-2017, 12:48 PM
  #72
StayAtHomeAv
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Some of you need to realize that you can't just draft players and hope the team magically gets better. You can't just expect the team to wake up one day and say "hey, now we're a playoff team." If they keeping losing then they are just going to **** the next group of kids over here as well. Another 2-3 years of this crap and MacKinnon is going to inundated with losing, so will Rantanen, so will Zadorov, etc. Go ask the Edmonton Oilers how that strategy worked out. Why the hell so many people are all aboard the 'moar draft picks' and 'tank for Dahlin' bandwagon is beyond me. Picks bust, picks take years to turn out. At best they get an 18% shot at Dahlin. If the Avs get a chance to get a 27 year old top pairing calibre, left handed defensman signed for 5 more years, you take it. If Nashville offers Ekholm for Duchene, you take that every day all day over picks from the Isles or other crap like that.


The idea that by sucking for 2 more years the team can then become a cup contender 3 years after that is more of a fantasy than reality. Bidding on 'next years pick' is all teams like the Oilers and Avs have done for years. Ekholm would be a brilliant pick up - way better than Hamonic in every conceivable way.


The team needs to become a 'mediocre playoff team' before we can talk about being cup contenders. They were literally just one of the worst teams in league history. There are 5 steps between where they are now and genuine cup contender status. Let's try to take the first ~2 steps first before we talk about 4 and 5.
And we need one more elite D prospect before we take a step to mediocre playoff team, unless the goal is simply just to be a mediocre playoff team long term until we luck out and find a superstar in the later half of the 1st (or later).

The first step should be finding some potential superstars to build around.

Adding a guy like Ekholm would be step 3. He is a guy you trade for to round out a core.

I'm not putting all my faith in Makar as that superstar player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
The Edmonton Oilers from 2007-2016 say hello.

Personally, I think he actually solves it. Especially if he's playing with EJ. A true top pairing that could play 25 minutes per night for the next few years is something not a lot of teams have.

I've liked Ekholm for a long time now. I'd easily trade Matt Duchene for him.


I disagree. You don't have a U23 team and throw everyone to the wolves. The Sabres damn near ruined Nikita Zadorov that way. Ditto the Oilers with Justin Schultz. Ekholm not only gives us a true top pairing defensemen for 5 years, he allows the slow(er) development of Zadorov, Bigras, Makar, Meloche, and Timmins. They will come into professional hockey knowing they have shelter and don't have to face the McDavid's/Getzlaf's/Johansen's/etc on a nightly basis from the get-go.
I didn't say throw them to the wolves.

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06-30-2017, 12:49 PM
  #73
dahrougem2
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I didn't say throw them to the wolves.
That's exactly what's going to happen on this team, though.

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06-30-2017, 12:54 PM
  #74
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That's exactly what's going to happen on this team, though.
They didn't rush Bigras. They even sent Zadorov back down. Rantanen was held down longer than any of us wanted. So, I'm not so sure of that. They have even recently been talking about having patience with the young guys.

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Old
06-30-2017, 01:14 PM
  #75
Alex Jones
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Imo if it was Duchene for Ekholm the Avs would be the team to add

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