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Red Wings 2017 Development Camp, July 7-11

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Old
07-08-2017, 02:35 PM
  #51
ChadS
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Originally Posted by Ezekial View Post
I disagree, the first 3 seconds were ugly and the first shot for sure, the rest was pretty good.

Now this is ugly
https://streamable.com/ge9gp
https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...lowski-impress

"Libor Sulak, who the Red Wings signed as a free agent in May, handled the drills very well. Please don’t judge him too harshly, I happened to catch his only booboo’s on camera. He did very well."

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07-08-2017, 02:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Also look at how tight he is to the obstacles. Look at the kid bulldozing through them when he is going back through the middle of the ice and how wide the next guy is going when he hits the blueline for his second shot. That isn't really an easy drill to be honest and outside of the initial hiccup that looked pretty fluid.
This, so much. He was so tight on those - compared to Sambrook who did it beautifully but busted wide on all of them. If you watch this drill you'll see it isn't easy. It seems like every short video of it has at least one **** up in the background.
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...lowski-impress

"Libor Sulak, who the Red Wings signed as a free agent in May, handled the drills very well. Please don’t judge him too harshly, I happened to catch his only booboo’s on camera. He did very well."
Probably should've linked the source with the Cholowski post

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07-08-2017, 02:41 PM
  #53
The Zetterberg Era
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...lowski-impress

"Libor Sulak, who the Red Wings signed as a free agent in May, handled the drills very well. Please don’t judge him too harshly, I happened to catch his only booboo’s on camera. He did very well."
Plus this encouraging quote in there too.

Quote:
The Wings obviously think he’s ready to turn pro and has a lot of potential, and in this young group he truly did stand out as ready. All of the on ice activities, drills, and practices are conducted at high speeds, there’s barely any time to even write notes because things are happening so fast. Even in that situation, Cholowski looked completely calm, confident, and executed with poise and accuracy. I can see why the Wings felt he was ready for an NHL contract.

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07-08-2017, 03:57 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Plus this encouraging quote in there too.
I mean take from that what you will...

The Red Wings did not sign him to turn professional.
Quite the opposite actually.. they signed him to go to an even lower level of amateur hockey (Prince Gorge). They needed him to go down and hopefully develop his offense at that level.
I'm sure they would like him to put up some sort of numbers to show evidence this kid is a living breathing 1st round prospect.

Seems like an optmistic take there....
Another year of pedestrian numbers on an average college team and he would have been doomed.

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07-08-2017, 04:35 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
I mean take from that what you will...

The Red Wings did not sign him to turn professional.
Quite the opposite actually.. they signed him to go to an even lower level of amateur hockey (Prince Gorge). They needed him to go down and hopefully develop his offense at that level.
I'm sure they would like him to put up some sort of numbers to show evidence this kid is a living breathing 1st round prospect.

Seems like an optmistic take there....
Another year of pedestrian numbers on an average college team and he would have been doomed.
That is completely inaccurate to anything the organization has said on the subject.

Your opinion, we have nothing to confirm that. I would completely disagree with it. They certainly did not need to hand him a contract even if he did go back to junior so if it was just forcing the league switch they didn't need to hand him a contract.

Horcoff did indicate he is likely to be in Prince George, they like that the coaches there have over 2,000 NHL games played.

Curious how would you describe Dante Fabbro's season, is Nashville struggling to justify him as a first rounder? Because frankly there was not a whole lot of difference there in terms of those players freshman years.

I am at a total loss to explain why Cholowski and Rasmussen are not horrifically bad players. I get that people wanted other people but this seems to be getting absurd. Also we did get Hronek out of dropping down in that deal as well which seems huge.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 07-08-2017 at 04:43 PM.
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07-08-2017, 04:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
That is completely inaccurate to anything the organization has said on the subject.

Your opinion, we have nothing to confirm that. I would completely disagree with it. They certainly did not need to hand him a contract even if he did go back to junior so if it was just forcing the league switch they didn't need to hand him a contract.

Horcoff did indicate he is likely to be in Prince George, they like that the coaches there have over 2,000 NHL games played.

Curious how would you describe Dante Fabbro's season, is Nashville struggling to justify him as a first rounder? Because frankly there was not a whole lot of difference there in terms of those players freshman years.
That right there shows they didn't sign him because he is pro ready... like the writer indicated.

Why would he leave a free ride scholarship that he had committed to since he was 15 years old?
Only reason he did it is because he had a contract in hand.
Listen, I like the move for him. I think it's the best course of action for his development. Radical, but needed.

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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post

I am at a total loss to explain why Cholowski and Rasmussen are not horrifically bad players. I get that people wanted other people but this seems to be getting absurd. Also we did get Hronek out of dropping down in that deal as well which seems huge.
I have defended the Rasmussen pick. Guy has some upside and some attractive/unique traits. I see the vision there.
I would have picked someone else for sure, but I don't hate that pick.


Last edited by Boomhower: 07-08-2017 at 05:02 PM.
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07-08-2017, 04:58 PM
  #57
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Yeah the shot is a big concern... if you can't rip it at 19 years old... I doubt you'll ever be able to.
Lowers Cholowski's 'upside' substantially..

Haha, wow Sulak. Isn't he like 24?
That was terrible... What a wasted signing. Only 2 years and not full 3 year entry level I guess would be the positive?



That is a 19 year old first round pick in the NHL draft. Yikes.
This is like a textbook example of how not to react during development camp. Lower Cholowski's upside because he didn't shoot like Ovechkin during a drill in July... LOL.
And forget that Sulak seems like a decent hockey player with potential, terrible signing because of a 30 second practice video!

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07-08-2017, 04:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
That right there shows they didn't sign him to play pro like the writer indicated.

Why would he leave a free ride scholarship that he had committed to since he was 15 years old?
Only reason he did it is because he had a contract in hand.
Listen, I like the move for him. I think it's the best course of action for his development.
It has always sounded like Cholowski wanted to leave though. I am not sure we will know, quite frankly I like that they have really commented on it. SCSU is a decent program we are likely to wind up with more players there. It just didn't work out for whatever reason. I support the decision, I still like the player a great deal. His skillset is there and we need players that can bring what he brings to the table.

Rasmussen and Cholowski should be among the best players in the WHL next year. I am excited to see how the season plays out. If they choose to put him in Grand Rapids though that would be great too in my opinion, I just think he will get more ice time in Prince George.

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07-08-2017, 05:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
This is like a textbook example of how not to react during development camp. Lower Cholowski's upside because he didn't shoot like Ovechkin during a drill in July... LOL.
!
The month matters, OK... I'm sure he'll shoot the puck great in October.
It's always been a skill that comes and goes.

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07-08-2017, 05:17 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
That is completely inaccurate to anything the organization has said on the subject.

Your opinion, we have nothing to confirm that. I would completely disagree with it. They certainly did not need to hand him a contract even if he did go back to junior so if it was just forcing the league switch they didn't need to hand him a contract.

Horcoff did indicate he is likely to be in Prince George, they like that the coaches there have over 2,000 NHL games played.

Curious how would you describe Dante Fabbro's season, is Nashville struggling to justify him as a first rounder? Because frankly there was not a whole lot of difference there in terms of those players freshman years.
Fabbro had to battle for PP time with McAvoy...

Cholowski was battling with (twice) undrafted Ahcan...

Not exactly the same thing.

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07-08-2017, 05:20 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
It has always sounded like Cholowski wanted to leave though. I am not sure we will know, quite frankly I like that they have really commented on it. SCSU is a decent program we are likely to wind up with more players there. It just didn't work out for whatever reason. I support the decision, I still like the player a great deal. His skillset is there and we need players that can bring what he brings to the table.

Rasmussen and Cholowski should be among the best players in the WHL next year. I am excited to see how the season plays out. If they choose to put him in Grand Rapids though that would be great too in my opinion, I just think he will get more ice time in Prince George.
You honestly think he could handle playing in Grand Rapids, or that it would be good for his development?

I think thats premature at this point, and I don't think management is really even seriously considerinng it. Plus there's absolutely no spots open. The SCSU coach said he still looks like he's 16 last year. He needs to play against teenagers before he plays against men. Maybe finish the year there after a good WHL campaign, but starting him there would be a terrible idea, which is why I almost guarantee it doesn't happen.

I think we need to take it slower with this kid than someone like Rasmussen.


Last edited by Frk It: 07-08-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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07-08-2017, 05:31 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Fabbro had to battle for PP time with McAvoy...

Cholowski was battling with (twice) undrafted Ahcan...

Not exactly the same thing.
Ahcan has a 0.02 lower PPG in the NCAA than McAvoy.. that's like saying a prospect who isn't getting PP time over Pulkkinen or Conacher in the AHL isn't doing well. Some guys are very good at the level they play, regardless of their NHL future.

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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
The month matters, OK... I'm sure he'll shoot the puck great in October.
It's always been a skill that comes and goes.
A practice in mid-season is highly likely to have way more intensity than one in an educational prospect camp in July. Cholo's shot may be a weakness but I'd at least wait for scrimmages or something to judge it in a slightly more fair manner.

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07-08-2017, 05:44 PM
  #63
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I mean that looked ugly. Puck control was choppy and the kid can't even let an effortless heavy shot go?

Most kids who can shoot, even when they are just messing around and half arse 'flick' the shot with wrists only.... it still looks fluid and you can tell they could rip it.
Yeah, I am by no means a scout and don't pretend to be one by using terms like "edge work". I was simply comparing the two videos posted for Lindstrom and Cholowski in this thread. Cholo looked brutal but again, I'm not a pro scout and I can't gauge anyone's "edge work".

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07-08-2017, 05:44 PM
  #64
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Cholo looked rough... His skating was anything but smooth and idk how anyone could see it as such which is discouraging since smaller guys are generally a bit smoother skaters. Sure he was tight to those obstacles, but he circled them with his toes pointed out instead of doing crossovers, which is a good skill to have but at the same time can be a very bad habit when it comes to developing your skating further. Its starting to look more and more like we drafted Cholo purely for his smarts.

On the other hand Sambrook was not exactly flying through that drill, but man is his skating absolutely skily smooth. That was beautiful to watch.

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07-08-2017, 05:46 PM
  #65
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Ahcan has a 0.02 lower PPG in the NCAA than McAvoy.. that's like saying a prospect who isn't getting PP time over Pulkkinen or Conacher in the AHL isn't doing well. Some guys are very good at the level they play, regardless of their NHL future.
I know there was older kids on the SCSU blue line and he's a bit behind the ball physically, but I would have liked to see him do a little more last year. I don't think Fabbro had a great season either, was just saying at least you can look at the kids on BU and understand.

I think WHL is absolutely the right move for him right now, and I hope he slots on the first pair and first PP. If Bean and Clague don't go to the AHL, I think that's a good duo to use as a measuring stick, and if Cholo outproduces or matches that group I'll be pretty happy.

Anyone know if WHL Live is any good? I would like to have a reliable/good stream to watch Ras and Cholowski next year. I have a site for CHL games but the quality sucks.


Last edited by Frk It: 07-08-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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07-08-2017, 06:01 PM
  #66
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The point of the drill is to be quick and compact.

Sambrook was smooth yet anything but compact.

Cholowski exploded off the backwards pivot faster while Sambrook was still gliding wide, then Cholowski's heel to heel was a level better.

There's a reason one was picked in the 1st round and the other in the 4th or 5th.

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07-08-2017, 06:49 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
You honestly think he could handle playing in Grand Rapids, or that it would be good for his development?

I think you have your head in the clouds, if so. The SCSU coach said he still looks like he's 16 last year. He needs to play against teenagers before he plays against men. Maybe finish the year there after a good WHL campaign, but starting him there would be a terrible idea, which is why I almost guarantee it doesn't happen.

I think we need to take it slower with this kid than someone like Rasmussen.
I said I thought he would be fine going to Prince George. If he makes the team he makes the team though, I would assume they would only do that if it was justified and his role was correct.

Cholo has filled out quite a bit from early last year, I think that might be the benefit long-term on the one college year. Hopefully we can pack some more weight on him this year. I still like him and I like the thought process behind the pick.

There are a lot of people that complain about them not taking risky enough picks for potential. To me Cholowski was a swing for the fences pick. He at the time of his draft was a slight player with loads of skill and incredible skating that was going to need some sculpting. I know we liked some of the other players on the board but to me he was them really trying to take a big chance at a top pairing d-man. I think he does have those tools there.

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07-08-2017, 06:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I said I thought he would be fine going to Prince George. If he makes the team he makes the team though, I would assume they would only do that if it was justified and his role was correct.

Cholo has filled out quite a bit from early last year, I think that might be the benefit long-term on the one college year. Hopefully we can pack some more weight on him this year. I still like him and I like the thought process behind the pick.

There are a lot of people that complain about them not taking risky enough picks for potential. To me Cholowski was a swing for the fences pick. He at the time of his draft was a slight player with loads of skill and incredible skating that was going to need some sculpting. I know we liked some of the other players on the board but to me he was them really trying to take a big chance at a top pairing d-man. I think he does have those tools there.
YUp still kind of reminds me of Ryan McDonagh with the skating. I think he has that ability to log 20+ minutes and produce 30+ points. McDonagh then did 3 years of college and half a year in the AHL prior to coming up to the NHL for good.

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07-08-2017, 07:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I said I thought he would be fine going to Prince George. If he makes the team he makes the team though, I would assume they would only do that if it was justified and his role was correct.

Cholo has filled out quite a bit from early last year, I think that might be the benefit long-term on the one college year. Hopefully we can pack some more weight on him this year. I still like him and I like the thought process behind the pick.

There are a lot of people that complain about them not taking risky enough picks for potential. To me Cholowski was a swing for the fences pick. He at the time of his draft was a slight player with loads of skill and incredible skating that was going to need some sculpting. I know we liked some of the other players on the board but to me he was them really trying to take a big chance at a top pairing d-man. I think he does have those tools there.
I don't disagree with any of that, and I do like his skill set, a defenseman with high end skating and passing ability is desperately needed on this team. He might be the best skater in the prospect pipeline now.

But I'm worried enough about there being room for Hronek and Saarijarvi in GR with the roster hoard Holland has going on. I want to see Cholo get a top role somewhere and dominate after his freshman year, and WHL seems like the best option for that.

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07-08-2017, 07:11 PM
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But I'm worried enough about there being room for Hronek and Saarijarvi in GR with the roster hoard Holland has going on.
It's interesting, too, because they've talked a bit about getting rid of the overripe thing in GR, and how their prospects need to come up earlier. But Ken Holland is acting just the same as ever, signing random established depth guys. Half the point of the overripe thing in the first place was that Holland preferred veteran depth, and kids had to take their jobs. How are they not doing the overripe thing if they sign Witkowski, and he pushes somebody like Bertuzzi back into the AHL? That sounds exactly like it. And I see the same thing happening with defensemen soon enough.

I think it's just business as usual. Hronek and Saarijarvi are going to be in the AHL until Ken Holland is convinced they can help the Wings make the playoffs their first year up.

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07-08-2017, 07:14 PM
  #71
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I don't disagree with any of that, and I do like his skill set, a defenseman with high end skating and passing ability is desperately needed on this team. He might be the best skater in the prospect pipeline now.

But I'm worried enough about there being room for Hronek and Saarijarvi in GR with the roster hoard Holland has going on. I want to see Cholo get a top role somewhere and dominate after his freshman year, and WHL seems like the best option for that.
Well apparently his skating isn't very good according to others...

I don't know where that is coming from. The point of this drill is to be choppy and compact. Outside of the initial mishandle at the beginning he was exactly what you want it to be. It is a short burst agility drill with puck handling.

His skating has been lauded continuously by our scouts, other teams scouts and everyone that watches him. If you want to pick on Cholowski skating isn't the place to do it. Like you said at this point he might be the best skater we have in the prospect pool.

McDonagh isn't bad but I think he is a more advanced defender defensively than Cholowski, I also think if he fills out correctly Cam Fowler might be a good comparable. He has to put in the work. Going to the WHL isn't the worst thing for him.

Just because things aren't going well doesn't mean we need to devalue the handful of very promising prospects that we do have.

Cholowski could be a big possession driver that plays a lot of minutes because of his skating ability.

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07-08-2017, 10:43 PM
  #72
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As Ray Ferraro once said, there's nothing wrong with a junior playing until his age limit expires. There's plenty of things for the kid to work on. He can develop his offensive game, develop his defensive game, develop more strength and conditioning, ect.. There's nothing wrong with Cholo going to the WHL. Honestly, if the organization was smart they would send him there, anyway. Let him log 25-30 a night vs 12-16 in GR. Sure yea he could go and learn the pro game but it doesnt help him develop by sitting vs playing. Let him get another year of developing then go to GR and try to log bigger minutes.

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07-09-2017, 04:11 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leronziia View Post
The point of the drill is to be quick and compact.

Sambrook was smooth yet anything but compact.

Cholowski exploded off the backwards pivot faster while Sambrook was still gliding wide, then Cholowski's heel to heel was a level better.

There's a reason one was picked in the 1st round and the other in the 4th or 5th.
https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...lowski-impress
Quote:
Dennis Cholowski, the Red Wings 2016 1st round pick (20th overall) was the first to run through the drills, and I think he was also the best at them.
Take it for what it's worth, maybe all our prospects just suck.. but when a guy is the first to run through a complicated drill like that and still stands out positively it speaks well for his smarts and skill.

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07-09-2017, 06:29 AM
  #74
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All our prospects must be bad because of Ken Holland.

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07-09-2017, 07:51 AM
  #75
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I would rather cholo in the WHL then NCAA.

I think the rhythm and competition is more NHL comparable.

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