HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Kuznetsov 8 year extension

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-02-2017, 08:02 PM
  #76
Carlzner
Registered User
 
Carlzner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: DC/CO
Country: United States
Posts: 13,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemind View Post
And was this seriously the best offer they had for Johansson? Why not wait a week or two and dangle him to the Radulov sweepstakes losers?
Seems like BMac didn't really have a plan at all.

Wonder what they've been doing the past month.

Carlzner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 08:04 PM
  #77
strungout
Professional Killer
 
strungout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 31,556
vCash: 500
I'm sure it's the best offer...it's Mojo. The rest of the NHL knows who he is.

Caps now have their 1st, Panthers 2nd, their 3rd and Torontos 3rd next year.

strungout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 09:47 PM
  #78
SpinningEdge
Registered User
 
SpinningEdge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 4,396
vCash: 500
Based on last season....

Player 1 - 19g 40a 59 pts - worth 8.7 mil a year for max 8 years.

Player 2 - 24g 34a 58 pts - is worth a second and third round pick.

SpinningEdge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 10:24 PM
  #79
Eazy for Kuzy
Forever a Caps fan
 
Eazy for Kuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: France
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 439
That's insanely high. Love Kuzy but he doesn't deserve that kind of money, and it's why we had to trade Johansson. GMBM just went bat****.

Eazy for Kuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 10:25 PM
  #80
CaptainKonoForever
Registered User
 
CaptainKonoForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Way way too high. Eek. What is with BMac and these insane contracts.

CaptainKonoForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 10:26 PM
  #81
SpinningEdge
Registered User
 
SpinningEdge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 4,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazy for Kuzy View Post
That's insanely high. Love Kuzy but he doesn't deserve that kind of money, and it's why we had to trade Johansson. GMBM just went bat****.
Again, Kuzy's contact shouldn't be the reason MoJo got traded for bad value.... it's the bad contracts gmbm gave out that caused this.

SpinningEdge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 10:41 PM
  #82
Eazy for Kuzy
Forever a Caps fan
 
Eazy for Kuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: France
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningEdge View Post
Again, Kuzy's contact shouldn't be the reason MoJo got traded for bad value.... it's the bad contracts gmbm gave out that caused this.
It's the consequence of poor asset management overall. I can't believe Orpik will be a top 4 D for us next year after everything we've done to diminish his role. But hey, we have 92 and 77 making a combined $14M for the next 8 years!

Eazy for Kuzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 11:05 PM
  #83
Holtbyisms
SY-STEM SY-STEM!!
 
Holtbyisms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bedford, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,059
vCash: 500
Short term this looks questionable. Long term we'll see. In 3 years this contract might look amazing due to contract inflation.

Holtbyisms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2017, 11:17 PM
  #84
artilector
Registered User
 
artilector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,508
vCash: 500
A contract you accept with a sigh.
Caps need every bit of help in the form of team-friendly contracts, etc -- and this isn't one of those contracts.

artilector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 12:41 AM
  #85
Brian23
Registered User
 
Brian23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinningEdge View Post
Based on last season....

Player 1 - 19g 40a 59 pts - worth 8.7 mil a year for max 8 years.

Player 2 - 24g 34a 58 pts - is worth a second and third round pick.
Flip side; one got prime player 1 got prime PP1 time and player 2 got piecemeal PP2 opportunities.

Brian23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 12:52 AM
  #86
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
 
Jags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kent Island, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemind View Post
Even I didn't expect him above $7M. More than Tarasenko is outright crazy. WTF
Question: Do you think Kuznetsov's number would have been 7.8 if it came before news broke about McDavid raising the league bar to 13?

Jags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 01:26 AM
  #87
SpinningEdge
Registered User
 
SpinningEdge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 4,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jags View Post
Question: Do you think Kuznetsov's number would have been 7.8 if it came before news broke about McDavid raising the league bar to 13?
Yes.

Here's why.

Anyone read the article on Orlov the other day about how his agent said he wasn't super happy about Orlovs ice time but praised GMBM by being "honest"?

Well... think about it. Orlov had a small bridge deal - then got a monster 6 year deal. Kuzy also had a small bridge deal and got a monster deal. This HAS to be because gmbm said "if he proves to go in the right direction we will reward him" during last negotiations.

So what happened? Orlov became a legit top 4 guy and arguable has the highest upside of any defender on the roster. Kuzy put up like 125 points past two seasons. He played well above his bridge deal.

So..... there was probably a agreement and a handshake deal during last negotiations that IF Kuzy and Orlov did their part on the bridge deal - then GMBM would do his part on a long-term deal too. Gmbm proved his honestly by doing these long-term deals rewarding the players after their team friendly bridge deals. Both parties seemed to do their part. Low risk and team friendly deal last contract on Orlov and Kuzy - now higher risk and major part of teams contracts.

I will give gmbm credit... he does seem 100% honest.

Expect Connolly to be the same way here..... he got a lower cap hit team friendly deal on a 2-year deal - VERY similar to Orlov and Kuzy's - IF he does well he probably has a handshake agreement for a longer term and higher role in the future as well.

SpinningEdge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 01:41 AM
  #88
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
 
Jags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Kent Island, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 471
vCash: 500
Wow, I don't think I believe any of that, but it's an interesting theory, Spin.

I think deals are what they are, not promises for the next deal. If anyone in the organization thought Mac operated that way, he'd be fired instantly.

Orlov and Kuznetsov's bridge deals weren't all that noteworthy in terms of being shockingly low. They were pretty typical. And Orlov's new contract is a good one. I didn't get a quid pro quo hit off that at all. Oshie's made sense because Mac traded term for cap room, with a resonably tradable second half.

Kuznetsov's struck me as surprisingly high, and it comes a couple days after news leaked about McDavid getting 13m, which is a sizable jump up from what we've been used to as top-end money. Price's deal struck me similarly -- that maybe it was also high because McDavid raised the bar.

But with Kuznetsov the comparison was more apt, them being skill centers and all, which is why I was asking Hive (and all of you) if he thought Kuznetsov getting about 20% more than just about everyone was guessing had anything to do with McDavid raising what we'd come to think of as the league-max by roughly the same amount?

I know it's all relative to the cap going up and it was going to trend that way regardless, but McDavid definitely (and deservedly) took it to a whole new level.


Last edited by Jags: 07-03-2017 at 01:47 AM.
Jags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 03:02 AM
  #89
Acallabeth
Curses & prophecies
 
Acallabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near an airfield
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 9,042
vCash: 500
It's about time Kuzya stops regarding himself as some kind of young and promising kid (he still speaks like one in the Russian interviews at least), because he's now a 59 point player paid like an elite #1C.

Then again, after the 2015-16 season on his bridge deal, an overpayment is the furthest from unexpected.

Acallabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 05:45 AM
  #90
HecticGlow
Registered User
 
HecticGlow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 507
vCash: 500
I feel like the Olympics issue was potentially a factor with both Orlov and Kuzy - that this year the players had genuinely good reasons to sign with the KHL instead of the NHL, so called GMBM's bluff. Kuzy was already on the record as saying he'd get paid or walk.

Good thing we won't have to re-sign our #1D, Wilson, likely give raises to Vrana and Bowey, and replace two of our centers next year...

HecticGlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 06:26 AM
  #91
philip
dismember
 
philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: England
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
Wow, you could choke several thousand donkeys on those wads. Kuzy got paid. Great player and I love him, so it's OK. It's a shame that NONE of our RFAs are giving us a discount though

philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 07:17 AM
  #92
trick9
Registered User
 
trick9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,089
vCash: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
Wow, you could choke several thousand donkeys on those wads. Kuzy got paid. Great player and I love him, so it's OK. It's a shame that NONE of our RFAs are giving us a discount though
This is pretty flawed way to think about that, though. Both of them actually gave us an discount in their last contracts which allowed them to focus on building a powerhouse team for their (then mentioned) 2-year window. I mean they got year of top-pairing D in Orlov for 2.750m and 2 years of Kuznetsov for 3m AAV. He was 18th in points among everyone, 2nd in +/- with +45 and 7th in ES scoring among everyone through those 2 years. It's a shame he couldn't match that in the Playoffs but he did give them hell of an discount with that contract and he was always going to get paid.

trick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 07:30 AM
  #93
CaptainKonoForever
Registered User
 
CaptainKonoForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trick9 View Post
This is pretty flawed way to think about that, though. Both of them actually gave us an discount in their last contracts which allowed them to focus on building a powerhouse team for their (then mentioned) 2-year window. I mean they got year of top-pairing D in Orlov for 2.750m and 2 years of Kuznetsov for 3m AAV. He was 18th in points among everyone, 2nd in +/- with +45 and 7th in ES scoring among everyone through those 2 years. It's a shame he couldn't match that in the Playoffs but he did give them hell of an discount with that contract and he was always going to get paid.
How generous of Kuzy. But now we have 8 years of Kuzy getting overpaid to contend with by almost a million dollars.

He had one excellent season and they hand him this huge contract (last season, this season was not particularly excellent except for the second half). Obviously they are projecting him to be a number one center but I don't see it yet. He still has to prove his consistency.

CaptainKonoForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 08:41 AM
  #94
trick9
Registered User
 
trick9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,089
vCash: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKonoForever View Post
How generous of Kuzy. But now we have 8 years of Kuzy getting overpaid to contend with by almost a million dollars.

He had one excellent season and they hand him this huge contract (last season, this season was not particularly excellent except for the second half). Obviously they are projecting him to be a number one center but I don't see it yet. He still has to prove his consistency.
Feel free to lend your crystal ball to GMBM, he could certainly use it.

trick9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 09:05 AM
  #95
philip
dismember
 
philip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: England
Posts: 493
vCash: 500
I think what we can say though is that we need to see more consistency from Evgeny. With his skillset and ability, he should be throwing in 80-95 point seasons year after year. He's the type of guy who can just take over a game and do special things, but at 8x8 he needs to do it MORE. This thing where he dominates for 20 games then disappears for 15 needs to stop

philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 10:49 AM
  #96
Stewie G
Needed more hitting!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 500
I think people haven't been keeping track of point scoring trends over the last couple years. 95 points would have been 2nd behind McDavid last year and even 80 would have put him in the top 8. With Backstrom on the "1st line" and Kuz not being on PP1, it is difficult for him to reach those kind of numbers. He's 7th in ESP over the last two seasons, above most of the players that make more than him, even with weaker numbers last year.

Stewie G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 10:51 AM
  #97
CapitalsCupFantasy
Wasted opportunities
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 37,201
vCash: 500
25/75 should be his floor the next 5 years. Could his numbers be boeyed by having a much more talented team around him the last 2 years as compared To next season and beyond? Scary thought. 20 g 65 pts next season would be a major disappointment.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 11:27 AM
  #98
Stewie G
Needed more hitting!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,924
vCash: 500
Interesting angle on quality of teammates. Without knowing his winger situation, it would be tough for me to peg a reasonable point target, but I'd have to agree that 65 points would likely be a fairly large disappointment if he gets PP1 minutes.

Stewie G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 12:25 PM
  #99
Roughing
Registered User
 
Roughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
I'm sure it's the best offer...it's Mojo. The rest of the NHL knows who he is.

Caps now have their 1st, Panthers 2nd, their 3rd and Torontos 3rd next year.
Yep, I never liked him. Extending some core, promote some kids, and start reloading the system next year. It's a mini-rebuild. Now, to complete the process, they need to trade Grubi and turn that $9.5M into 2 or 3 young players. I guarantee GMBM is not even considering moving Orpik. We only have four experienced Dman right now and no longer have serious cap problems.

Roughing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2017, 12:29 PM
  #100
DCRedhawk21
Registered User
 
DCRedhawk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 917
vCash: 500
This is an overpayment, but he had leverage and at least it buys his prime years? I don't know, I guess you have to look at is as a bet that he will fully establish himself as a top 6 C at close to PPG production with an expanded PP role. That he'll be worth more in the end than any cap space or other player they could have traded him for.. but who knows if they even considered exploring that option. Just keep the band together as much as possible and make it work cap wise.

In a vacuum, the contract is high - but with reason and logic behind it. In the context of the other moves this summer, it's more concerning.

DCRedhawk21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.