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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part I

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07-03-2017, 10:42 AM
  #26
StayAtHomeAv
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Originally Posted by AllAboutAvs View Post
Yeah let's trade Duchene and be done with it...then we can all come back in here in a few months and complain that Sakic sold him for too cheap, he got taken to the cleaners, he is a terrible GM for taken less than he was worth and on and on and on.

Listen. I would prefer Duchene gone like everybody here but in no way Sakic can just "trade him and be done with it". He cannot screw this up. We don't even know what offers he has refused lately. The OTT deal was before Chabot broke out and Zib was nothing special at the time. It was not worth Duchene at the time. For those who say that we need to trade for a dman before he gets established remember that Chabot could have become a Pouliout. Jones could have become a Murray (which is a dman a lot of you don't want as a centerpiece), even Hanifin could have busted or might not get better than he is right now.

Sakic needs to stand strong and screw the other GMs and their media pressure. Duchene is a pro and he knows that if he wants to be traded the best way for that to happen is for him to get his head straight and get back to his level of play so that Sakic can get what is fair for him. With that being said I do agree that he should start looking at other packages that don't include the dman he wants and then, just like this year's draft, build that D from the draft. IMO our D is looking pretty good for the future. Just keep drafting some high to make sure it becomes a strenght and hopefully one of them becomes that #1/top-pair we are looking for.

But he cannot "trade him and be done with it".
And this is Sakic's problem. Scared to take a shot on unproven potential. No ability to recognize the busts from the ones who are about to break out. We are never getting a proven Jones, Chabot etc. It's never going to happen. Not for Matt Freakin Duchene.

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07-03-2017, 10:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
And this is Sakic's problem. Scared to take a shot on unproven potential. No ability to recognize the busts from the ones who are about to break out. We are never getting a proven Jones, Chabot etc. It's never going to happen. Not for Matt Freakin Duchene.
And that's why I said he should start looking at packages without that dman in it and build that D from within.

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07-03-2017, 10:47 AM
  #28
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And that's why I said he should start looking at packages without that dman in it and build that D from within.
Or...the Avs could push for a Gabriel Carlsson package from CBJ. Get a young guy (20 years old) who came over to NA this past season, played games in LE to wrap up the regular season, and then played Playoff games for CBJ.

Build a package around that.

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07-03-2017, 10:49 AM
  #29
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Ghetto? It was Barberio who commented on Duchene.
Ok my bad. My point still stands. It's not a player that has a long history with this team, Duchene, or even in NHL locker rooms. Again there is also the possibility of language being a factor as well.

You just can't put that much weight behind that statement.

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07-03-2017, 10:51 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Or...the Avs could push for a Gabriel Carlsson package from CBJ. Get a young guy (20 years old) who came over to NA this past season, played games in LE to wrap up the regular season, and then played Playoff games for CBJ.

Build a package around that.
I don't disagree with you but first let's see that package before saying Sakic can't trade for a young unproven dman like Carlsson. The rest of the package might be pretty poor as well. Would you do Carlsson-Milano and 1st for Duchene? I wouldn't.

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07-03-2017, 10:51 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by AllAboutAvs View Post
And that's why I said he should start looking at packages without that dman in it and build that D from within.
That's what people mean when they say "trade him and be done with it". Nobody is saying trade him for nothing. I think most people assume there are fair offers on the table, but Sakic is wanting more than fair and not only that but he wants a very specific type of player.

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07-03-2017, 10:57 AM
  #32
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That's what people mean when they say "trade him and be done with it". Nobody is saying trade him for nothing. I think most people assume there are fair offers on the table, but Sakic is wanting more than fair and not only that but he wants a very specific type of player.
And here lies the problem with this whole Sakic trashing. People don't know what has been offered. We can figure out some of the pieces but we can't figure out the entire offers.

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07-03-2017, 10:59 AM
  #33
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Yeah, if Duchene isn't traded in the next week and a half or so, it's hard to see him getting traded in some random day in August or September.

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07-03-2017, 11:01 AM
  #34
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Yeah, if Duchene isn't traded in the next week and a half or so, it's hard to see him getting traded in some random day in August or September.
He'll be traded next week. As Duchene's walking into the church to get married, Sakic will text him saying I've traded you to Vegas... oh and congratz on the wedding.

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07-03-2017, 11:02 AM
  #35
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And here lies the problem with this whole Sakic trashing. People don't know what has been offered. We can figure out some of the pieces but we can't figure out the entire offers.
When a player has been on the market for 18+ months, I find it very hard to believe that a fair deal has not been presented.

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07-03-2017, 11:03 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Ok my bad. My point still stands. It's not a player that has a long history with this team, Duchene, or even in NHL locker rooms. Again there is also the possibility of language being a factor as well.

You just can't put that much weight behind that statement.
A player in the locker-room says "Duchene wants out" and you're saying we can't put much weight into it because it's possible said player might be wrong because he doesn't actually know Duchene and might not have understood basic English or something of that sort. You are the one who is definitely not being unbiased and open-minded about this right now.



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07-03-2017, 11:04 AM
  #37
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This meme is way too on point right now:


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07-03-2017, 11:05 AM
  #38
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And that goes for more than just the Duchene situation

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07-03-2017, 11:07 AM
  #39
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When a player has been on the market for 18+ months, I find it very hard to believe that a fair deal has not been presented.
There might have been a couple yes but were they a good fit for the team going forward. There are two aspects in a trade...value and fit. If Sakic would have taken a fair value offer at the time but a bad fit people in here would have been complaining how he is such a bad GM because he doesn't know how to build a team. At this point Sakic can't win with people here unless he hit this one out of the park.

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07-03-2017, 11:12 AM
  #40
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Grigorenko has signed for CSKA Moscow


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07-03-2017, 11:13 AM
  #41
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07-03-2017, 11:13 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by AllAboutAvs View Post
There might have been a couple yes but were they a good fit for the team going forward. There are two aspects in a trade...value and fit. If Sakic would have taken a fair value offer at the time but a bad fit people in here would have been complaining how he is such a bad GM because he doesn't know how to build a team. At this point Sakic can't win with people here unless he hit this one out of the park.
GMs really don't try to screw each other... the league is very tight knit and there are only so many working relationships that can be broken before a GM is blackballed. I believe there have been a lot of fair offers thrown Sakic's way. It seems more asinine to me that Sakic hasn't received any fair offers vs he has received a number of fair offers. Especially given Duchene's stature in the NHL.

I really don't care what fans think of Sakic (and he really shouldn't either). Right now though... he has really screwed up this situation to a level we rarely see. I don't think that can be denied. This is very public now, and it has completely ruined a relationship between a good player and an organization.

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07-03-2017, 11:13 AM
  #43
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Grigorenko has signed for CSKA Moscow
Hmmm, is that the KHL team that holds Zadorov's rights? I believe he is originally from Moscow.

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07-03-2017, 11:16 AM
  #44
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Damn. They are going to be good. Gotta laugh at Montreal though. What are they going to do now?

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07-03-2017, 11:17 AM
  #45
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I'm not the biggest fan of Nill, but at least his balls are on the table here. Methot, Bishop, and Radulov... he has improved Dallas' chances greatly this summer.

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07-03-2017, 11:17 AM
  #46
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On the whole Sakic debate, I have found that things are seldom black and white in life, more like a whole bunch of shades of gray.

I suspect their is a lot of blame to go around, both within and outside the Avs' organization. I can certainly criticize Sakic, but few if any of us have all the facts, and, as I said, things are seldom 100% the fault of one individual in situations like these.

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07-03-2017, 11:18 AM
  #47
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I'm not the biggest fan of Nill, but at least his balls are on the table here. Methot, Bishop, and Radulov... he has improved Dallas' chances greatly this summer.
Yeah, he went all in. Hanzal too. Add in Hitchcock, and that will be a defensively responsible team with some nice offensive firepower.


Bergevin, however...I don't know what's going on in his head.

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07-03-2017, 11:19 AM
  #48
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It feels like Nill is trying to sign every big name UFA every summer.

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07-03-2017, 11:19 AM
  #49
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Grigorenko has signed for CSKA Moscow

I really can't believe he didn't get another shot with someone.

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07-03-2017, 11:21 AM
  #50
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I blame Sakic for not being able to land a good package, but I don't blame him for not pulling the trigger on a bad trade. Most of what we hear out there (that is credible) are bad trade options for him:
- Hamonic + 1st
- Murray + Jenner
- Car not wanting to trade Hannifin for Duchene
- Bos not wanting to trade McAvoy for Duchene
- Nas not wanting to trade their top4 for Duchene

All the good trade options are what I read on this board people want to get, which is far from what we hear is being offered right now.

Drouin and Trouba are goodexemple of what will happen if Duchene is not traded - he'll suck it up and do what's best for him - rebound. I'm hoping every day he gets traded, but only for a good return. I'd rather keep him otherwise. I don't see how his vakue could ddrop significantly given that it already seems to be very low.

I'm hoping for another lottery pick that would allow us to draft another top Dman (Dahlen, McIsaac, etc...) and a good development year from Makar. We could then field a top 4 of 2018 1st, Makar, Zadorov and EJ, with Bigras, Meloche, Timmins and Mironov pushing for 3rd pair duty and pushing to take EJ's spot on the 2nd pair as he ages.

Up front we wouuld have Mac, Jost and Compher down the middle with Rantanene and Landeskog on the wings, with Duchene and Barrie as trade chips to improve offensively.

So if we end-up keeping Duchene an extra year, we'll get to see how Makar developp and if we are likely to land a top D in the 2018 draft. That could change our view about Duchene having to be traded for a top4 Dmen.

Trying to be optimistic for...in twi year's time...

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