HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part I

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2017, 11:21 AM
  #51
AllAboutAvs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: B.C. Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
GMs really don't try to screw each other... the league is very tight knit and there are only so many working relationships that can be broken before a GM is blackballed. I believe there have been a lot of fair offers thrown Sakic's way. It seems more asinine to me that Sakic hasn't received any fair offers vs he has received a number of fair offers. Especially given Duchene's stature in the NHL.

I really don't care what fans think of Sakic (and he really shouldn't either). Right now though... he has really screwed up this situation to a level we rarely see. I don't think that can be denied. This is very public now, and it has completely ruined a relationship between a good player and an organization.
Yeah I don't disagree that this has become a bad situation between the two parties. but until I see those offers (the entire offers) reported by trusted sources, I will continue to think that he needs to stand his ground instead of "trade him already and be down with it" kinda thing like some people here are now saying.

Edit: Stand his ground as far as value is concerned. He might have to give up the idea of the dman he wants.

AllAboutAvs is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:21 AM
  #52
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 26,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Yeah, he went all in. Hanzal too. Add in Hitchcock, and that will be a defensively responsible team with some nice offensive firepower.


Bergevin, however...I don't know what's going on in his head.
Yep... they have as solid of 1-2-3 center group as anybody in the NHL. If Methot can help Klingberg in the same way he helped Karlsson... Dallas could make some real noise.

henchman24 is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:23 AM
  #53
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 26,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutAvs View Post
Yeah I don't disagree that this has become a bad situation between the two parties. but until I see those offers (the entire offers) reported by trusted sources, I will continue to think that he needs to stand his ground instead of "trade him already and be down with it" kinda thing like some people here are now saying.
You'll never really see those offers leak. They almost never do... and even when they do, people still shoot down good sources.

A legit question here... what has Sakic done to earn the benefit of doubt in this situation?

henchman24 is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:26 AM
  #54
Murzu
Registered User
 
Murzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistlin76 View Post
I don't agree. There is no "must" in it. Duchene said he is OK with either being traded or stay with the team. Trade him when return is really good. I agree with Dater article on BSN. jackets waited for good deal for Nash and they got it: Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon and the Rangers� first-round pick in 2013. For Anisimov they got Saad, for Saad they got Panarin.

I want similar deal for Duchene. I'm ok with Murray+ Dubois+1st as was rumored or Carlsson instead of Murray even better if it's +Carlsson.

Would you be happy for some crappy or at best so-so return? I wouldn't.
He has been on the market for ages. Sakic is just afraid to make a bad deal. Situation is poisonous and I don't expect him to be lights out next season playing in this team, especially when Bednar is the coach. A subpar season would just hurt his value. The only thing I find positive about dragging this to 2018 summer is that the team trading for Duchene could immediately negotiate a new contract for him.

I wouldn't take a crappy deal but I'd accept a fair deal. I don't expect a home run. I'd be extremely happy with Murray+Dubois and I doubt Duchene is worth that/Jarmo would give up that for Dutchy.

Murzu is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:26 AM
  #55
RockLobster
Moderator
Damnit, Jian Yang!
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 23,047
vCash: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
You'll never really see those offers leak. They almost never do... and even when they do, people still shoot down good sources.

A legit question here... what has Sakic done to earn the benefit of doubt in this situation?
Duh, he's not traded Matt "Living Legend" Duchene!

__________________

There's only one thing I hate more than lying: skim milk, which is water that is lying about being milk.
RockLobster is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:27 AM
  #56
Ceremony
It was dawn
 
Ceremony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 99,748
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
I really can't believe he didn't get another shot with someone.
If Yakupov still doesn't have an NHL deal Grigorenko certainly wasn't going to get one.

__________________
this isn't real, it's only the internet
Ceremony is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:29 AM
  #57
Murzu
Registered User
 
Murzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 132
Wow. This summer, Stars have upgraded their goalie position, added a legit top four D, 1st line winger and borderline elite 3C.

They lost Eakin and Niemi?

That team is going to be great. I'm jealous.

Murzu is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:31 AM
  #58
Cypher
Vote Tom Kirkman!
 
Cypher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,805
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Yeah, he went all in. Hanzal too. Add in Hitchcock, and that will be a defensively responsible team with some nice offensive firepower.


Bergevin, however...I don't know what's going on in his head.
Don't forget Miro Heiskanen

But seriously, they got their goalie in Bishop, solidified the defense now with Methot and in the future with Heiskanen and added more firepower with Radulov and Hanzal. That's the kind of moves you do when you miss the playoffs... unless youre name is Joe.

Cypher is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:32 AM
  #59
bohlmeister
#Sadalanche
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murzu View Post
Wow. This summer, Stars have upgraded their goalie position, added a legit top four D, 1st line winger and borderline elite 3C.

They lost Eakin and Niemi?

That team is going to be great.
I'm still not a fan of their defense. Good luck shutting them out though.

bohlmeister is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:33 AM
  #60
Freudian
Clearly deranged
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 40,751
vCash: 50
I've said I believed Grigorenko would end up in KHL for a year now. He just doesn't have it in him to fight. If anything coaches are overly patient with players like him because of the undeniable talent but it always ends the same. Patience isn't endless and at some point you don't have the energy to try to get them to play hockey.

Freudian is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:33 AM
  #61
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 26,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murzu View Post
Wow. This summer, Stars have upgraded their goalie position, added a legit top four D, 1st line winger and borderline elite 3C.

They lost Eakin and Niemi?

That team is going to be great.
Add to that Honka and Gurianov being close to contribution and they have a much better team.

henchman24 is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:36 AM
  #62
AllAboutAvs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: B.C. Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
You'll never really see those offers leak. They almost never do... and even when they do, people still shoot down good sources.

A legit question here... what has Sakic done to earn the benefit of doubt in this situation?
Yes you are right they rarely become public but usually you can have a better idea of the value/players involved. Right now it is all a big guess.

Sakic is trying to make the best deal for the team going forward which means value + fit (which in itself means age and position). If all he can get is future than he can get that later as well. His best bet then is to keep Duchene and Duchene needs to suck it up and improve his value to help for a trade.

I'm not just defending Sakic here. He has a lot to be blamed about but a lot of this situation was also created by other GMs like Dorion (with Melnyk thrown in there), Bergevin and now Snow. Right now I believe his best bet is to keep Duchene until he gets something he is comfortable with.

AllAboutAvs is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:37 AM
  #63
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: w/ Renley's Peach
Country: Germany
Posts: 29,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
I really can't believe he didn't get another shot with someone.
He got a shot on a better team than the one he played for last year; and likely got s raise to do so

cgf is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:38 AM
  #64
tigervixxxen
Moderator
Optimism=Delusional
 
tigervixxxen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 47,869
vCash: 166
After this summer then we are in futures territory. Oh well.

tigervixxxen is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:38 AM
  #65
LieutenantDangle
Mikko Kardashian
 
LieutenantDangle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: 'Merica
Posts: 2,242
vCash: 1556
Sakic may very well be at the point of no return with the duchene situation; as in theres no longer a trade that makes sense value wise and duchene will have to be in the fold with the avs going forward. Maybe deals that were once on the table are now off the table. The window of getting needed value for duchene may have closed and now both parties will have to suck it up. Regardless of where duchene is playing for the next two seasons he still has to earn his next contract, so I don't think he will continue to spiral downward because his feeling are hurt by the big bad sakic. Just my 2 cents though.

LieutenantDangle is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:39 AM
  #66
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 26,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutAvs View Post
Yes you are right they rarely become public but usually you can have a better idea of the value/players involved. Right now it is all a big guess.

Sakic is trying to make the best deal for the team going forward which means value + fit (which in itself means age and position). If all he can get is future than he can get that later as well. His best bet then is to keep Duchene and Duchene needs to suck it up and improve his value to help for a trade.

I'm not just defending Sakic here. He has a lot to be blamed about but a lot of this situation was also created by other GMs like Dorion (with Melnyk thrown in there), Bergevin and now Snow. Right now I believe his best bet is to keep Duchene until he gets something he is comfortable with.
Consider how often this happens... I really can't think of another instance of a single GM going public like they have in negotiations. Let alone 3 (and I believe there was one other, but I could be wrong there). It is pretty unheard of, and the common denominator is Sakic.

henchman24 is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:40 AM
  #67
Murzu
Registered User
 
Murzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Add to that Honka and Gurianov being close to contribution and they have a much better team.
Oh that's right, Honka will be up the whole season. Is Gurianov really that close to being NHL ready?

I'm wondering what's the deal with Nichushkin. Is he coming back to NHL after next season?

Murzu is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:41 AM
  #68
agentblack
Registered User
 
agentblack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 10,043
vCash: 50
Bye Grigs
I'm embarrassed for thinking he could be a top 6 fwd

agentblack is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:42 AM
  #69
henchman24
Mr. Meeseeks
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 26,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murzu View Post
Oh that's right, Honka will be up the whole season. Is Gurianov really that close to being NHL ready?

I'm wondering what's the deal with Nichushkin. Is he coming back to NHL after next season?
I think Gurianov could play a 3rd line role next season, especially next to Hanzel.

henchman24 is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:45 AM
  #70
Murzu
Registered User
 
Murzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I think Gurianov could play a 3rd line role next season, especially next to Hanzel.
Granted I haven't watched a single game him play (expect for some U20 games) but to me that age + AHL stats combo screams one more season in AHL before NHL regularity.

Murzu is online now  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:49 AM
  #71
AllAboutAvs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: B.C. Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Consider how often this happens... I really can't think of another instance of a single GM going public like they have in negotiations. Let alone 3 (and I believe there was one other, but I could be wrong there). It is pretty unheard of, and the common denominator is Sakic.
It doesn't get to that point because the GM usually fights back and/or squash the rumours about his player being on the block. That's where Sakic was wrong. He should have come out and say that Duchene wasn't on the block but he will do his job and that is to listen to all offers and if one makes sense for the team then you take it. Him being to passive got this situation out of hand but it doesn't mean he should cave to any of them now due to media pressure.

Anyway I don't think we gonna agree on this so agree to disagree.

AllAboutAvs is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:51 AM
  #72
NOTENOUGHBREWER
Registered User
 
NOTENOUGHBREWER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9,731
vCash: 500
I know I said this last year and the year before and got ripped on by everyone... But is this truly the last year where MacKinnon can be traded for a legit #1 defender?

When does the luster of being #1 overall pick and having a good rookie season fade for good?

NOTENOUGHBREWER is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:53 AM
  #73
bohlmeister
#Sadalanche
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
I know I said this last year and the year before and got ripped on by everyone... But is this truly the last year where MacKinnon can be traded for a legit #1 defender?

When does the luster of being #1 overall pick and having a good rookie season fade for good?
Ask Erik Johnson.

bohlmeister is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:55 AM
  #74
LieutenantDangle
Mikko Kardashian
 
LieutenantDangle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: 'Merica
Posts: 2,242
vCash: 1556
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
I know I said this last year and the year before and got ripped on by everyone... But is this truly the last year where MacKinnon can be traded for a legit #1 defender?

When does the luster of being #1 overall pick and having a good rookie season fade for good?
who would be an acceptable return for the "untouchable" mackinnon? and who would be willing to part with that piece?

LieutenantDangle is offline  
Old
07-03-2017, 11:55 AM
  #75
Metallo
NWOBHM forever \m/
 
Metallo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Québec, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
On the whole Sakic debate, I have found that things are seldom black and white in life, more like a whole bunch of shades of gray.

I suspect their is a lot of blame to go around, both within and outside the Avs' organization. I can certainly criticize Sakic, but few if any of us have all the facts, and, as I said, things are seldom 100% the fault of one individual in situations like these.
I could not agree more.

Yes there is plenty of blame to go around. Sakic being way to open to the media about trading Duchene, Duchene collapsing like a house of cards down the stretch, other GMs/owners using media mouthpieces to pressure Sakic (making Sakic dig-in), Duchene not down playing the rumours, Barberio opening his pie hole, etc.

Metallo is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.