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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part I

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Old
07-03-2017, 11:56 AM
  #76
Gigantor The Goalie
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The biggest Achilles heel on the Stars is Ben Bishop. If Hitchcock can implement the defensive system that Nashville had for the playoffs than Bishop issues will largely be mitigated because they are relatively the same as Rinne's. Do they have the horses on defense to run it consistently though is the question in my eyes. If they can we'll see Dallas go far.

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07-03-2017, 11:56 AM
  #77
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07-03-2017, 11:58 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by LieutenantDangle View Post
who would be an acceptable return for the "untouchable" mackinnon? and who would be willing to part with that piece?
Hanifin + I'd imagine

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07-03-2017, 11:58 AM
  #79
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I know I said this last year and the year before and got ripped on by everyone... But is this truly the last year where MacKinnon can be traded for a legit #1 defender?

When does the luster of being #1 overall pick and having a good rookie season fade for good?
The problem with moving MacK is you are trading one very difficult spot to fill for another one. The Avs will need a #1D and #1C regardless to win. Robbing Peter to pay Paul... and with that, there isn't anybody the Avs have in the pool or was available to draft this year who you can consider a sure thing #1C... which I'd argue MacK has already shown he is a #1. Just not a high end one at this point.

As long as MacK keeps progressing (and there isn't any real reason to think that he won't), his value will stay up.

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07-03-2017, 12:00 PM
  #80
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MTL come on down

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07-03-2017, 12:02 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
The biggest Achilles heel on the Stars is Ben Bishop. If Hitchcock can implement the defensive system that Nashville had for the playoffs than Bishop issues will largely be mitigated because they are relatively the same as Rinne's. Do they have the horses on defense to run it consistently though is the question in my eyes. If they can we'll see Dallas go far.
I'm not one to think Bishop is great, but if Dallas can get above average goaltending... they are clearly a playoff team.

The defense is the real question. I expect them to play good enough to maintain a playoff spot throughout the season and then add a defensive piece at the deadline. Mike Green would make a lot of sense there.

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07-03-2017, 12:02 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Consider how often this happens... I really can't think of another instance of a single GM going public like they have in negotiations. Let alone 3 (and I believe there was one other, but I could be wrong there). It is pretty unheard of, and the common denominator is Sakic.
This comment goes against your comment that GMs are a thigh knit community. Their public crying about Duchene is a pressure tactic. No fair dealings here.

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07-03-2017, 12:02 PM
  #83
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That's the problem right there. People are buying into the bait set out by the media hook line and sinker. They keep leaving the door open on what is being leaked in that last piece by saying "Prospect or pick" when in these deals being discussed that last piece makes a huge difference. It's not as if Hanifin plus is being leaked, and we don't really care what the plus is.

Too many assumptions being made.



Sorry I guess I'm having trouble remembering when you've taken those objective stances. We don't tend to agree that much, so there is probably some bias there.

There is another problem, you actually think I'm defending Sakic. Why the hell would I defend a position I don't hold?

My position is that too much is being made of the relationship between Sakic, Duchene, and the organization in general. I also don't believe we've hit a real deadline for a trade yet.

So to clarify, I don't agree with the way Sakic has handled the situation. However, I do not believe Duchene being on the roster for another year is going to be much of a problem. The is a lot of roster turnover, and the whole dynamic of the locker room is likely going to change as guys like Compher and Jost get more solidified in their roles on the team. The team is changing, and Duchene will either be along for the ride or he will not. My position is that his value is not likely to drop a significant amount until after next years off-season.

I understand the risks there as well. I just don't think those risks are enough that Sakic should cave and take a lesser offer in order to move Duchene now. That might be where others disagree, but that's a discussion not the que to drop a one liner about how Sakic sucks.
"People" are using common sense and taking more into account than just the leaked offers.

Seriously though, feel free to believe whatever you want.

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07-03-2017, 12:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Metallo View Post
This comment goes against your comment that GMs are a thigh knit community. Their public crying about Duchene is a pressure tactic. No fair dealings here.
Sakic is the only GM to be called to the floor... it says more about Sakic than it does about anything else. GMs are frustrated with him, and it is abundantly clear. It has simply reached a breaking point. Other negotiations can be contentious without anything being said publicly and teams move on... Sakic is the exception.

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07-03-2017, 12:08 PM
  #85
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- I don't care* if Duchene is traded, but I wish we had more daily updates besides a flux of random quotes one day and then two days of silence after that. :/

* = What I mean is want him gone, but that I will have more of a pessimistic view on a deal progressing.

- Stars are most definitely a playoff team.

But I suggest there is a huge difference between being a playoff team and one who can do damage in the post season. Thus far, Stars and their lack of quality defenders don't really scare me if I am a Preds, Ducks, or Blues fan.

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07-03-2017, 12:09 PM
  #86
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the Preds, Ducks, or Blues fan.
One of these is not like the other...

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07-03-2017, 12:09 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I'm not one to think Bishop is great, but if Dallas can get above average goaltending... they are clearly a playoff team.

The defense is the real question. I expect them to play good enough to maintain a playoff spot throughout the season and then add a defensive piece at the deadline. Mike Green would make a lot of sense there.
I agree Bishop is enough to get into the playoffs but after that I'm not sure about how far they can get if they don't see the same success from the system Nashville uses.

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07-03-2017, 12:10 PM
  #88
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You know what they say...if more than 3 people say it its probably true lol. The common denominator is Sakic. Snow and the like are just the ones who have said it publicly. Who knows how many other GMs Joe has managed to jimmy russle behind closed doors. He really must be asking for the moon if everyone is pissed off at him.

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07-03-2017, 12:12 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
I agree Bishop is enough to get into the playoffs but after that I'm not sure about how far they can get if they don't see the same success from the system Nashville uses.

Dallas will make the playoffs. Im almost willing to bet my account on it. I wouldn't bet on them making it past the first however.

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07-03-2017, 12:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Sakic is the only GM to be called to the floor... it says more about Sakic than it does about anything else. GMs are frustrated with him, and it is abundantly clear. It has simply reached a breaking point. Other negotiations can be contentious without anything being said publicly and teams move on... Sakic is the exception.
So unfair dealings are fair with Sakic? To me it feels like GMs are ganging up on Joe to see if he's going to break. Sakic does not have to accept any offers that he does not like.

That being said, Sakic not having the respect of his peers is troubling. I don't think he can operate as a GM if it stays like this. Joe's probably too classy to tell them to go **** themselves.

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07-03-2017, 12:26 PM
  #91
henchman24
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Originally Posted by Metallo View Post
So unfair dealings are fair with Sakic? To me it feels like GMs are ganging up on Joe to see if he's going to break. Sakic does not have to accept any offers that he does not like.

That being said, Sakic not having the respect of his peers is troubling. I don't think he can operate as a GM if it stays like this. Joe's probably too classy to tell them to go **** themselves.
I never said they were fair... it just says a lot about the situation, and how Sakic has dealt with it. Sakic doesn't have to accept anything, but he should negotiate in good faith... and he should be very careful with the Brisson relationship. There are already Newport issues, the last thing this organization needs is issues with CAA.

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07-03-2017, 12:27 PM
  #92
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I wonder who hates their gm more right now, us or montreal

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07-03-2017, 12:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I never said they were fair... it just says a lot about the situation, and how Sakic has dealt with it. Sakic doesn't have to accept anything, but he should negotiate in good faith... and he should be very careful with the Brisson relationship. There are already Newport issues, the last thing this organization needs is issues with CAA.
Who says Sakic does not negotiate in good faith? Other GMs trying to bully him?

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07-03-2017, 12:29 PM
  #94
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Guess he'll re-sign Markov for too much money to show he's a man of action.

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07-03-2017, 12:31 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Metallo View Post
So unfair dealings are fair with Sakic? To me it feels like GMs are ganging up on Joe to see if he's going to break. Sakic does not have to accept any offers that he does not like.

That being said, Sakic not having the respect of his peers is troubling. I don't think he can operate as a GM if it stays like this. Joe's probably too classy to tell them to go **** themselves.
How would it benefit other GMs to gang up on him? Sure, 1 GM gets his way, but the others are sitting their sucking their thumbs saying, "I could have gone higher. Why didn't I go higher? It was stupid to think we could get a top6 C on the cheap. Man, I should have just made a fair offer."

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07-03-2017, 12:33 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
- I don't care* if Duchene is traded, but I wish we had more daily updates besides a flux of random quotes one day and then two days of silence after that. :/

* = What I mean is want him gone, but that I will have more of a pessimistic view on a deal progressing.

- Stars are most definitely a playoff team.

But I suggest there is a huge difference between being a playoff team and one who can do damage in the post season. Thus far, Stars and their lack of quality defenders don't really scare me if I am a Preds, Ducks, or Blues fan.
Yea its been too quiet after dater said it was in the redzone. If we believe him, deal should be done within a week if its getting done

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Old
07-03-2017, 12:35 PM
  #97
henchman24
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Who says Sakic does not negotiate in good faith? Other GMs trying to bully him?
My goodness... the level it takes.

There is plenty of evidence out there, and a lot more rumors floating around. Sakic is all alone out there for a reason, and it isn't because 30 other GMs are big bad bullies. Take the evidence how you will, I can't change your mind. I've taken enough of this thread, I should really stop.

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07-03-2017, 12:37 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
How would it benefit other GMs to gang up on him? Sure, 1 GM gets his way, but the others are sitting their sucking their thumbs saying, "I could have gone higher. Why didn't I go higher? It was stupid to think we could get a top6 C on the cheap. Man, I should have just made a fair offer."
There is no joint effort by the GMs, there just applying the same tactics. Once they saw that a GM could disrespect him publicly without consequence they felt they had a license to do the same.

''Ganging up'' was not the right wording.

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07-03-2017, 12:39 PM
  #99
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My goodness... the level it takes.

There is plenty of evidence out there, and a lot more rumors floating around. Sakic is all alone out there for a reason, and it isn't because 30 other GMs are big bad bullies. Take the evidence how you will, I can't change your mind. I've taken enough of this thread, I should really stop.
Dont at all understand how people can defend sakic anymore. When a gm does so little that buying out bad contracts and not resigning bad players or coaches are his best moments, hes horrible. The longer he is in power, the worse off this team is going to be

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07-03-2017, 12:56 PM
  #100
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My goodness... the level it takes.

There is plenty of evidence out there, and a lot more rumors floating around. Sakic is all alone out there for a reason, and it isn't because 30 other GMs are big bad bullies. Take the evidence how you will, I can't change your mind. I've taken enough of this thread, I should really stop.
Don't get me wrong, Sakic is probably not cut-out to be a GM. He's too transparent, not decisive enough, slow-moving. Maybe that irks other GM. But saying he is not negotiating in good faith is just conjecture at this point. Going to the media to complain is classless however. [I deal in contracts, when the other parties tries those types of tactics I lose my ****.]

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