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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part I

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Old
07-03-2017, 01:04 PM
  #101
Avs_19
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Radulov and Hitch? Cool.

How'd the nightlife in Dallas? I'm guessing pretty good since Seguin seems to like it there.

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07-03-2017, 01:05 PM
  #102
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Though I'd pop back in since it's been so quite on the (Duchene) western front, lol.

Fleury is unlikely to turn into the franchise d-man you're after. But he's big, very defensively responsible, smooth skating, and will almost assuredly end up as a very good 2nd pair NHL d-man (he'll start in Carolina in the 3rd pair this year).

I understand the hesitation in going with an all futures package. To mitigate that, instead of just picks or prospects, what if Teravainen were included? Kid doesn't turn 23 until September, is very versatile, and tallied 15 goals and 27 assists last year. He probably hasn't even reached full physical maturity yet. Again, maybe not the home run potential of some extremely young prospects, but nowhere near the risk, either. You know he's going to provide a nice contribution at the NHL level.

I know the above as a base isn't what you want, I only ask compared to what is most likely being offered by other teams still in the mix.

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07-03-2017, 01:12 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by LakeLivin View Post
Though I'd pop back in since it's been so quite on the (Duchene) western front, lol.

Fleury is unlikely to turn into the franchise d-man you're after. But he's big, very defensively responsible, smooth skating, and will almost assuredly end up as a very good 2nd pair NHL d-man (he'll start in Carolina in the 3rd pair this year).

I understand the hesitation in going with an all futures package. To mitigate that, instead of just picks or prospects, what if Teravainen were included? Kid doesn't turn 23 until September, is very versatile, and tallied 15 goals and 27 assists last year. He probably hasn't even reached full physical maturity yet. Again, maybe not the home run potential of some extremely young prospects, but nowhere near the risk, either. You know he's going to provide a nice contribution at the NHL level.

I know the above as a base isn't what you want, I only ask compared to what is most likely being offered by other teams still in the mix.
throw in a 1st rounder and that probably comes close to Sakic's asking price

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Old
07-03-2017, 01:15 PM
  #104
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I have my heart set on PLD which is probably not great cause now it won't happen. But at this point Carlsson+ PLD would have me itching to pull the trigger. A pick on top and I'm happy. PLD is legit. Some BJ fans seemed receptive to that package on the main board.

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07-03-2017, 01:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by LakeLivin View Post
Though I'd pop back in since it's been so quite on the (Duchene) western front, lol.

Fleury is unlikely to turn into the franchise d-man you're after. But he's big, very defensively responsible, smooth skating, and will almost assuredly end up as a very good 2nd pair NHL d-man (he'll start in Carolina in the 3rd pair this year).

I understand the hesitation in going with an all futures package. To mitigate that, instead of just picks or prospects, what if Teravainen were included? Kid doesn't turn 23 until September, is very versatile, and tallied 15 goals and 27 assists last year. He probably hasn't even reached full physical maturity yet. Again, maybe not the home run potential of some extremely young prospects, but nowhere near the risk, either. You know he's going to provide a nice contribution at the NHL level.

I know the above as a base isn't what you want, I only ask compared to what is most likely being offered by other teams still in the mix.
I can't imagine that this offer beats what is currently on the table from CBJ in any way.

I am also pretty sure that Sakic would rather deal him to CBJ than to CAR if the offers are comparable given that you guys did not budge on Hanifin.

But at this point we can only speculate what really is on the table.

But I really don't think Fleury + Teuvo is close to getting it done.

I wouldn't even consider it personally and I am pretty sure we have been offered more than that.

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07-03-2017, 01:20 PM
  #106
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There is no joint effort by the GMs, there just applying the same tactics. Once they saw that a GM could disrespect him publicly without consequence they felt they had a license to do the same.

''Ganging up'' was not the right wording.
Again I ask, how would that benefit them? These GMs are not going to take these tactics knowing other GMs are in the race and need to outbid them.

If you go to buy a house that is listed at 300k and worth 300k, a house that is hands down your top choice, and you know there are 5 other offers out there, are you seriously going to try a lowball offer at 275k or whatever?

These tactics only work when the demand for a player is low. GMs know they can't play these games for a high demand player, which Duchene should be. They have to outbid everyone else along with pleasing Sakic.

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Old
07-03-2017, 01:31 PM
  #107
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Sakic won't trade with the Canes if their entire top four is off the table. For better or worse, I'm fairly confident in that. I also understand the Canes' perspective, but they won't be getting really high end forward talent that isn't 1) A year to UFA, or 2) Aging, if they keep holding those pieces off the table. If they still want to add a top six forward they should have gotten MoJo - unless they were on his NTC list I suppose. But that's the type of player they should be targeting with what appears to be available.

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Old
07-03-2017, 01:36 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
I can't imagine that this offer beats what is currently on the table from CBJ in any way.

I am also pretty sure that Sakic would rather deal him to CBJ than to CAR if the offers are comparable given that you guys did not budge on Hanifin.

But at this point we can only speculate what really is on the table.

But I really don't think Fleury + Teuvo is close to getting it done.

I wouldn't even consider it personally and I am pretty sure we have been offered more than that.
Not that it takes away from your conclusion, but no one knows for sure if RF was willing to budge on Hanifin or not, especially at the trade deadline. Don't forget that Sakic's reported asking price when all this started would have been Hanifin++(+?). At some point Sakic could well have turned down a deal that included Hanifin.

But you allude to a point that I've wondered about, as well. Given the positioning of both orgs, Avs and Canes seem like natural trade partners. But presumably Sakic and Francis started negotiating very early on, when demands were probably very far apart. I wonder if that might have led to somewhat of a confrontational vibe, which might make it harder for the 2 to get a Duchene deal done now as compared to Sakic dealing with a different GM?

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07-03-2017, 01:37 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CoachBadkitten View Post
I have my heart set on PLD which is probably not great cause now it won't happen. But at this point Carlsson+ PLD would have me itching to pull the trigger. A pick on top and I'm happy. PLD is legit. Some BJ fans seemed receptive to that package on the main board.
That's a package that I'd accept from CBJ as well, and I think it's pretty fair value for both sides.

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07-03-2017, 01:50 PM
  #110
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Not that it takes away from your conclusion, but no one knows for sure if RF was willing to budge on Hanifin or not, especially at the trade deadline. Don't forget that Sakic's reported asking price when all this started would have been Hanifin++(+?). At some point Sakic could well have turned down a deal that included Hanifin.

But you allude to a point that I've wondered about, as well. Given the positioning of both orgs, Avs and Canes seem like natural trade partners. But presumably Sakic and Francis started negotiating very early on, when demands were probably very far apart. I wonder if that might have led to somewhat of a confrontational vibe, which might make it harder for the 2 to get a Duchene deal done now as compared to Sakic dealing with a different GM?
I think it all comes from a bad evaluation of their own assets....Sakic must realize that he is selling a player who had a bad season and bad world championship......Francis is selling a young talented player who could become a star like Duchene in 2/3 years....but he might just be a good young D (second pair D)...so for that risk Sakic should just ask for a 1st round choice in 2018....that's all......

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07-03-2017, 01:55 PM
  #111
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Would you give Markov 7.5 on a one year deal and a limited no trade? Give him more dollars now to buy away from that 2nd year he wants, then give him his pick of contenders at the deadline if Colorado is out of it?

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07-03-2017, 02:01 PM
  #112
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Would you give Markov 7.5 on a one year deal and a limited no trade? Give him more dollars now to buy away from that 2nd year he wants, then give him his pick of contenders at the deadline if Colorado is out of it?
No.

Avs need to stop doing stupid ****. Not do more of it.

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07-03-2017, 02:01 PM
  #113
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I think we should send Soderberg to Montreal for Andrew Shaw.

Colleague here doesn't like it. (habs fan)

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07-03-2017, 02:07 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
Would you give Markov 7.5 on a one year deal and a limited no trade? Give him more dollars now to buy away from that 2nd year he wants, then give him his pick of contenders at the deadline if Colorado is out of it?
Nothing against Markov, but that is 1. too much $ and 2. he makes the team better, which we have one more year of sucking. Let Comeau and Colborne walk then get serious, especially with next years much better draft and UFA class.

I'd rather give young guys experience than bring in Markov.

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07-03-2017, 02:08 PM
  #115
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No.

Avs need to stop doing stupid ****. Not do more of it.
I wouldn't mind Markov on a 1 year deal. Not for 7.5M though.

6.5M would be the most I would give him. And with the clear intention to flip him at the deadline for a 2nd+. No trade protections.

Avs really could use some more pieces to sell at next years deadline.

And not sure we could get more value out of any UFA out there than Markov at the deadline.

That is also under the assumption that Markov won't make too much of a difference for this team.

I mean our tanking solely relies on Varly anyways. If he really is 100% healthy and back to his old self, we are probably in trouble anyways if we want to get a good shot at Dahlin...

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Old
07-03-2017, 02:11 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
I wouldn't mind Markov on a 1 year deal. Not for 7.5M though.

6.5M would be the most I would give him. And with the clear intention to flip him at the deadline for a 2nd+. No trade protections.

Avs really could use some more pieces to sell at next years deadline.

And not sure we could get more value out of any UFA out there than Markov at the deadline.

That is also under the assumption that Markov won't make too much of a difference for this team.

I mean our tanking solely relies on Varly anyways. If he really is 100% healthy and back to his old self, we are probably in trouble anyways if we want to get a good shot at Dahlin...
If the player is all fine and good with that strategy then hell yeah, we should damn well be doing this kind of thing.

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07-03-2017, 02:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
with the clear intention to flip him at the deadline for a 2nd+. No trade protections.

Avs really could use some more pieces to sell at next years deadline.
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
If the player is all fine and good with that strategy then hell yeah, we should damn well be doing this kind of thing.
I've zero (0) confidence that Sakic is able to pull even a simple, planned thing like that. Zero.

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07-03-2017, 02:17 PM
  #118
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I think it all comes from a bad evaluation of their own assets....Sakic must realize that he is selling a player who had a bad season and bad world championship......Francis is selling a young talented player who could become a star like Duchene in 2/3 years....but he might just be a good young D (second pair D)...so for that risk Sakic should just ask for a 1st round choice in 2018....that's all......
the biggest issue is control. Duchene is under contract for 2 years before ufa. Hanafin however would be under team control for a lot longer than 2 years due to his RFA status

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07-03-2017, 02:21 PM
  #119
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What bad contract could Söderberg be traded for?

Boedker is probably too good and Söderberg was too poor.
Vegas has a lot of junk, but it's one year junk.
Gaborik is signed for longer than Söderberg, so that won't work.

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07-03-2017, 02:21 PM
  #120
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If the player is all fine and good with that strategy then hell yeah, we should damn well be doing this kind of thing.
As much as money does not seem to be something Sakic needs to worry about. I'm surprised they haven't used that as ammunition yet. We're a small market team that has very rich ownership that loved the era of no salary cap. We played well in that pool, so why haven't they figured out how to use it in this era?

That does bother me a bit.. Josh "The salary cap is the NHL salary cap." Joe has all of the tools, but leaves them in the tool box.

If I was going to complain about Sakic, that's one area I'd start with. Hes been fine with the common sense stuff lately, but makes zero effort to step beyond average.

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07-03-2017, 02:21 PM
  #121
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Interesting piece from the Jackets' side:
Quote:
I mentioned this twitter and got some disagreements but I would be ok giving up both Carlsson and Murray to get Duchene. I don’t see the upside in Carlsson that others do. I see him as someone who tops out as maybe a second pair defencemen if everything breaks right. I see him getting exposed in the NHL next season. Regardless he should not be the reason this deal doesn’t get done. Murray is another story. He's shown he can play on the top pair, as he did with Seth Jones in the 2015-16 season. He has all the talent but just can’t stay healthy and put it all together. His loss would be felt, but it’s hard to count on Murray with his injury history. It might be time for another organization to take a chance on him. Moving both defencemen, a prospect like Sonny Milano or a first round pick is something the Jackets should do. That would open a hole on the third pair but it could easily be filled by a UFA defencemen, like a Cody Franson.
Carlsson + Murray + Milano + 1st? Yes please.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Paul-...hene/224/86239

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07-03-2017, 02:24 PM
  #122
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Sakic won't trade with the Canes if their entire top four is off the table. For better or worse, I'm fairly confident in that. I also understand the Canes' perspective, but they won't be getting really high end forward talent that isn't 1) A year to UFA, or 2) Aging, if they keep holding those pieces off the table. If they still want to add a top six forward they should have gotten MoJo - unless they were on his NTC list I suppose. But that's the type of player they should be targeting with what appears to be available.
If the thinking is: Avs don't think Canes have the pieces they'd need in return if one of the top 4 isn't included, I get that.

But if the thinking is: we want one of your top 4 and if you won't include one we're not going to deal with you, I don't get it.

Bottom line is that if I'm a GM I'm picking the best deal available. To let any desired deals that aren't there influence my choice among the ones that are seems counterproductive. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with Duchene, although I did get that vibe from certain posts. Not meant to single out your board, I see the same thing from our fans, as well.

On Canes moving one of our top 4 to get a #1C: it might come down to timing. For a number of reasons, I suspect that next year RF will be much more likely to make that trade.

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07-03-2017, 02:28 PM
  #123
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Carlsson + Murray + Milano + 1st? Yes please.
Carlsson + Murray would be on the table. The other two pieces are the question, and very doubtful unless the Avs added to the deal. Carlsson + Murray + 2nd is more realistic.

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07-03-2017, 02:29 PM
  #124
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Interesting piece from the Jackets' side:


Carlsson + Murray + Milano + 1st? Yes please.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Paul-...hene/224/86239
I hate that deal. This is the type of offer you get on the main boards. How many future pieces can we stack up before we hit value marker need to get the other GM to pull the trigger in my NHL PS game?

Murray is a nice piece, but the next piece better be better than Carlsson, Milano, Late 1st.

I'd be pissed, and I'd have every right to be since I'm not screaming for Sakic to take any deal and move on.

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07-03-2017, 02:30 PM
  #125
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Carlsson + Murray would be on the table. The other two pieces are the question, and very doubtful unless the Avs added to the deal. Carlsson + Murray + 2nd is more realistic.
Yeah I wouldn't do that deal.

Neither Carlsson nor Murray have enough upside to be ever anything more than a solid second pairing shutdown guy.

And honestly Zadorov projects to develop into a similar kind of player.

I would want a 1st in any deal not involving PLD from the Jackets.

Rather pick one of Murray/Carlsson + one of their top3 fwd prospects + 1st than make this deal personally.

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