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Will the Jets be competitive with the Oilers and Leafs?

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07-03-2017, 10:03 AM
  #1
DowntownBooster
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Will the Jets be competitive with the Oilers and Leafs?

I would like to get some opinions on how others feel about the prospects of Winnipeg being able to compete against Edmonton and Toronto at winning the Stanley Cup sometime in the near future. Do we have a realistic chance?

Whenever I look through the threads in the National Hockey League Talk section of HFBoards it seems like there's so much talk of Connor McDavid and the Edmonton Oilers as well as Auston Matthews and the Toronto Maple Leafs. I get the impression that the dominant viewpoint is that the future belongs to Edmonton and Toronto as 1A and 1B as far as being the best teams in the league. I seldom see Winnipeg getting any kind of recognition compared to those 2 teams.

Is it only those of us in Winnipeg (and Jets fans elsewhere) that actually think we have good prospects at challenging for the top prize in the future? Do McDavid and Matthews put those 2 teams in a league of their own? Are they really that superior? I know that McDavid is considered the new Gretzky and fans in Edmonton have visions of winning the Stanley Cup for the next 10 to 15 years while forgetting that the Oilers missed the playoffs for 10 years straight. It also seems like fans in Toronto now consider the Leafs to be on par with McDavid and the Oilers since drafting Matthews.

Is it possible that we are only deluding ourselves in thinking that we will have an equally good team as them? Are we destined to relive the Gretzky dynasty years through McDavid with Laine being our Hawerchuk where we always fall short while they celebrate championships? I have to admit that I felt much better about the Jets prospects before McDavid fell into the Oilers lap and the Leafs got new management which hired Mike Babcock and then drafted Auston Matthews.

Thoughts anyone?


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07-03-2017, 10:15 AM
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YWGinYYZ
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We have a lot of high end forward talent - I'd say that if we are able to compete, it'll be on depth at forward and defense, combined with much stronger goaltending than we've had in the past. My only concern at this point: Chevy has assembled a strong roster and filled some holes / gotten rid of the useless pieces, but can Maurice actually coach this team to a playoff berth? That's the last question mark for me.

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07-03-2017, 10:19 AM
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ps241
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
We have a lot of high end forward talent - I'd say that if we are able to compete, it'll be on depth at forward and defense, combined with much stronger goaltending than we've had in the past. My only concern at this point: Chevy has assembled a strong roster and filled some holes / gotten rid of the useless pieces, but can Maurice actually coach this team to a playoff berth? That's the last question mark for me.
I am predicting a bounce back year for Maurice even though I would prefer a change in coaching. I am hoping Chevy stays focused and keeps the waive Thor and buy out Stu killer instinct.

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07-03-2017, 10:34 AM
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Yup. Our d is stronger then the Oilers' is and our team in general is better than the Leafs in pretty well every way shape and form...so yea. Id say so.

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07-03-2017, 11:00 AM
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It seems to me that there are three...and only three...Canadian teams who are going to be seriously competitive in the foreseeable future, and they are, in no particular order, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Toronto.

Edmonton will ultimately be hamstrung by McDavid's contract. We've entered an era, I think, where an elite level superstar can sometimes hinder the team, because it lowers the amount of money that can be spent on enough competent supporting players. Couple that with Edmonton's well-established incompetent management over the past decade or more, and I think that there will be no dynasty coming for the Oilers, although they will be good.

Toronto? Hard to say. They're good, and getting better, but then again, so is Winnipeg. I'm a homer, I confess, but it seems to me that if the Jets have solved their goalie/defense issues this summer, or at least taken a solid step in that direction, then top to bottom they've got more potential than the other two teams, if not immediately, then in a year or two. More upside for the Jets than for the Oilers or Leafs.

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07-03-2017, 11:02 AM
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Flair Hay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I am predicting a bounce back year for Maurice even though I would prefer a change in coaching. I am hoping Chevy stays focused and keeps the waive Thor and buy out Stu killer instinct.
The better the roster, the harder it is for a coach to make a mistake. If the veterans can help get the buy in from the young guys on defense this could be a very good year for us.

Copp Matthias and Dano on 4th line with Petan to cover for a possible top six center injury is pretty good.

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07-03-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I am predicting a bounce back year for Maurice even though I would prefer a change in coaching. I am hoping Chevy stays focused and keeps the waive Thor and buy out Stu killer instinct.
A bounce back year for Maurice?
I think if we have more success it's because the players gotten better

I think if we lack injuries and barely make it to the playoffs that we would still need a new coach

Team has enough talent to simulate the whole season without playing

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07-03-2017, 11:05 AM
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It seems to me that there are three...and only three...Canadian teams who are going to be seriously competitive in the foreseeable future, and they are, in no particular order, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Toronto.

Edmonton will ultimately be hamstrung by McDavid's contract. We've entered an era, I think, where an elite level superstar can sometimes hinder the team, because it lowers the amount of money that can be spent on enough competent supporting players. Couple that with Edmonton's well-established incompetent management over the past decade or more, and I think that there will be no dynasty coming for the Oilers, although they will be good.

Toronto? Hard to say. They're good, and getting better, but then again, so is Winnipeg. I'm a homer, I confess, but it seems to me that if the Jets have solved their goalie/defense issues this summer, or at least taken a solid step in that direction, then top to bottom they've got more potential than the other two teams, if not immediately, then in a year or two. More upside for the Jets than for the Oilers or Leafs.
IMHO I think Calgary has leap frogged Winnipeg. Winnipeg may have 1 more year of being on the outside looking in. The Jets still need to upgrade bottom 6 player to be able to make a run in the playoffs

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07-03-2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
We have a lot of high end forward talent - I'd say that if we are able to compete, it'll be on depth at forward and defense, combined with much stronger goaltending than we've had in the past. My only concern at this point: Chevy has assembled a strong roster and filled some holes / gotten rid of the useless pieces, but can Maurice actually coach this team to a playoff berth? That's the last question mark for me.
This is the biggest concern for me too. Pretty hard to mess up the D core at this point, but I have no idea what he's going to to do with the forwards.

I'm half expecting another two 4th lines set-up with Mattias - Lowry - Armia on the third and the 4th comprised of either to wrong players or with the right players getting no ice time.

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07-03-2017, 11:11 AM
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IMHO I think Calgary has leap frogged Winnipeg. Winnipeg may have 1 more year of being on the outside looking in. The Jets still need to upgrade bottom 6 player to be able to make a run in the playoffs
Id day Winnipeg has taken a step back more than Calgary doing the leaping

The jets have a players for the bottom 6
It's coaching that needs to spread out the talent
We have enough talent that should be able to make a 3rd line(Which ismy a bad 3rd line) our 4th Line(Which would be a really good 4th line)

Still think Winnipeg does need some upgrading to he serious contenders each year, but they're close to being a playoff team each year
We'll have to see what Maurice can do with this roster

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07-03-2017, 11:18 AM
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Absolutley we will be. The media has a hard on for the leafs and McDavid so they will get nore attention, but we have what looks to be a very bright future.

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07-03-2017, 11:31 AM
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Flames have gone all-in with them trading all those draft picks for Hamonic. That said, I find their goaltending choices to be questionable.

With respect to Toronto, Edmonton and Winnipeg, I don't need an outsider's opinion to validate where I think the Jets are trending. The Jets are moving towards contender status and overall, they have better players than the Leafs.

Toronto has a great management/coaching team in place with some great young forwards, but they still have holes and rode a relatively injury-light year to make the playoffs.

It will be interesting to see if Edmonton can remain competitive with McDavid's expected contract.

How these teams fair in the long-term will depend on their cap management but I expect these four teams to become more prominent over the next few years.

As a general fan of Canadian-based teams, it's exciting to see.

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07-03-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Id day Winnipeg has taken a step back more than Calgary doing the leaping

The jets have a players for the bottom 6
It's coaching that needs to spread out the talent
We have enough talent that should be able to make a 3rd line(Which ismy a bad 3rd line) our 4th Line(Which would be a really good 4th line)

Still think Winnipeg does need some upgrading to he serious contenders each year, but they're close to being a playoff team each year
We'll have to see what Maurice can do with this roster
I don't see how anyone can say the Jets have taken a step back. That makes little sense with what the Jets have done this offseason couple with the organic growth of its talented young players.

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07-03-2017, 12:03 PM
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Why is there an irresistible urge to compare ourselves to the Leafs? Outside of the two games we play against each other, they are just as irrelevant as any other team.

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07-03-2017, 12:05 PM
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Edmonton took a big step last season, and I think is clearly in a different class than the rest. The McDavid contract could have an effect down the road, but in the short term they look to be the most successful.

Toronto on paper doesn't seem all that much better than us, if at all, but they have by far the more superior coach. The future of this group looks solid, and I put them ahead of the Jets.

I think the Jets and Flames are on par with each other. They've started to plug some holes, and there's potential for great things. But whether that potential is realised or not is questionable. Going to be more of a rollercoaster I think.

Van has clearly hit reset, and Mtl is trying to buy their way out of problems that will ultimately continue to degrade team performace.


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07-03-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
We have a lot of high end forward talent - I'd say that if we are able to compete, it'll be on depth at forward and defense, combined with much stronger goaltending than we've had in the past. My only concern at this point: Chevy has assembled a strong roster and filled some holes / gotten rid of the useless pieces, but can Maurice actually coach this team to a playoff berth? That's the last question mark for me.
Indeed. I also find it exceptionally telling that every single one of his goaltenders, with the exception of Pavelec's 2014 year, all saw below-average goaltending. Did he just have bad goaltenders, or is this indicative of a larger problem?

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07-03-2017, 12:13 PM
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Id day Winnipeg has taken a step back more than Calgary doing the leaping.
Man, I have been doing a lot of reading the last few days, and I can confidently say that literally no one shares this take with you.

In what way exactly have the jets taken a step back? Seriously, with a take like yours I expect a response to this question - in what way are we worse off going into next year versus our roster from last year?

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07-03-2017, 12:17 PM
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YWGinYYZ
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Why is there an irresistible urge to compare ourselves to the Leafs? Outside of the two games we play against each other, they are just as irrelevant as any other team.
History. The old Winnipeg Arena used to be jam-packed full of Leafs and Habs fans. For me, disparaging the Leafs is a hard habit to break because of this.

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07-03-2017, 12:17 PM
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If we show that we can compete just as the leafs and oilers did then we would be in the conversation. The fact that we haven't is why we are seldom spoken about.

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07-03-2017, 12:23 PM
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Until we make the playoffs, there will be a tendency outside Winnipeg to discount us. Until we went on our 7 game win streak last season, we were in the Patrick/ Nico sweepstakes.

We are also saddled with a mediocre coach, which IMO lowers our ceiling.

I think there is also a perception that as good as Laine is, he's not in McDavid's league, and probably not in AM's either, because the latter plays centre and is a more complete player.

I think we can compete with those 2, but it will require a few things to fall into place: less injuries (doable), better than league average goaltending (doable, but by no means a given)), getting Little and Wheeler to either stay on team friendly deals, or turning them into younger assets making an equivilent contribution (challenging), and signing Trouba to a semi reasonable deal that will not break the bank (challenging).

As a natural pessimist, and having had season's ticket to watch Gretzky break our hearts over and over again, IMO we will have trouble competing with Edmonton. If a few things break our way, we can definitely compete with TO.

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07-03-2017, 12:27 PM
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Until we make playoffs we are out of the conversation, as soon as we win a round or two we'll be considered serious contenders.

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07-03-2017, 12:33 PM
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IMHO I think Calgary has leap frogged Winnipeg. Winnipeg may have 1 more year of being on the outside looking in. The Jets still need to upgrade bottom 6 player to be able to make a run in the playoffs
Strongly disagree there. If there is anything wrong with our bottom 6, it lies squarely on Maurice. He has the horses. He needs to figure out how to use them.

Calgary has corralled a herd of Dmen but their goaltending is probably worse than last year. The Flames are the team with a weak bottom 6.

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07-03-2017, 12:37 PM
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Why is there an irresistible urge to compare ourselves to the Leafs? Outside of the two games we play against each other, they are just as irrelevant as any other team.
Both teams have talented young forwards, Matthews and Laine went 1-2 and both teams were rebuilding recently.

It seems like a natural comparison to me.

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07-03-2017, 12:42 PM
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i think the injury thing comes into play - we were shot last season and I believe a large factor was the fact that we hardly every had our best roster on the ice. Toronto didn't have this problem, and neither did Edmonton for the most part.

If we are healthy, we'll make it into the playoffs. Once we're there it's our depth that will carry us over a team like Edmonton. I'm not worried about Toronto in the playoffs, the only way we'll meet them is in the final. If we're good enough to get that far, no one scares me.

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07-03-2017, 12:58 PM
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Strongly disagree there. If there is anything wrong with our bottom 6, it lies squarely on Maurice. He has the horses. He needs to figure out how to use them.

Adding a 3C, additional scoring line puts the Jets over the top. If they can bump Lowry down to the 4th....even Maurice can't screw it up.
We've got 6-8 guys that can play in the bottom 6, but none of the potential combinations stand out if Roslovic isn't ready for the 3C role.


Last edited by AWSAA: 07-03-2017 at 01:12 PM.
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