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Will the Jets be competitive with the Oilers and Leafs?

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Old
07-06-2017, 03:54 AM
  #76
mcpw
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Originally Posted by gnp View Post
McDavid- say he scores---- 150 points ( that would be tops)

Draitsaital- say he scores- 100 points ( more likely 80- 90 points)

Laine- say he scores 120 points ( realistic in his prime)

Ehlers- say he scores 110 points ( in his prime)

Scheiffle - say scores 100 points ( very realistic)

Kyle Connor- he scores 90 points ( he may get more)

Wheeler - say he scores 80 points ( pretty reliable)
Whoa.

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07-06-2017, 06:10 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by mcpw View Post
Whoa.
Yeah I thought the same those numbers might all be a bit over the top

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07-06-2017, 06:30 AM
  #78
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Bottom line is that on paper we match up well to the Leafs and Oilers. The biggest question mark is coaching. I feel if last year's coaching is any indicator, we will not match up.

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07-06-2017, 06:49 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
Agree with Paul Wiecek on this one. Mason is a bit of a gamble and goaltending could blow up in the team's face again.

"The numbers tell the tale. Hellebuyck and his .907 save percentage were not nearly good enough last season and it cost the Jets a playoff berth as far as I'm concerned.

So Chevy goes out last weekend and signs a guy who had a .908 save percentage last season? I don't see how that solves the problem.

Mason is a decent backup goalie — and light years better than Hutchinson. But the Jets need a competent, consistent starting goalie if all this young talent is going to have a chance to shine next season. And they still don't have one, in my opinion.
"
Paul knows how to keep it negative. Did he actually say Mason is a decent back up goalie? Mason has never been a back up so he may actually suck at it if that is what Chevy brought him in for? Paul tell us what a consistant starting goalie looks like??? It's amazing he gets paid to write this ****. He here's another fact Paul Ben Bishop also had a bad season last year too does that make him inconsistent? Mike Smith had a .904 save % two season ago.....pass on him.......Raanta has never been a starter in the NHL so pass on him.....same goes for Darling.........still searching for a "constant starter" we should have targeted????

Unicorn chaser Paul wisecrack slinging negative articles......stop the presses!


Last edited by ps241: 07-06-2017 at 07:01 AM.
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07-06-2017, 08:06 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
Agree with Paul Wiecek on this one. Mason is a bit of a gamble and goaltending could blow up in the team's face again.

"The numbers tell the tale. Hellebuyck and his .907 save percentage were not nearly good enough last season and it cost the Jets a playoff berth as far as I'm concerned.

So Chevy goes out last weekend and signs a guy who had a .908 save percentage last season? I don't see how that solves the problem.

Mason is a decent backup goalie and light years better than Hutchinson. But the Jets need a competent, consistent starting goalie if all this young talent is going to have a chance to shine next season. And they still don't have one, in my opinion.
"
Is it appropriate to only factor in last year's performance for Mason to assess future performance? No.

Sure, goaltending is a gamble. We're not guaranteed anything here.

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07-06-2017, 08:30 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Paul knows how to keep it negative. Did he actually say Mason is a decent back up goalie? Mason has never been a back up so he may actually suck at it if that is what Chevy brought him in for? Paul tell us what a consistant starting goalie looks like??? It's amazing he gets paid to write this ****. He here's another fact Paul Ben Bishop also had a bad season last year too does that make him inconsistent? Mike Smith had a .904 save % two season ago.....pass on him.......Raanta has never been a starter in the NHL so pass on him.....same goes for Darling.........still searching for a "constant starter" we should have targeted????

Unicorn chaser Paul wisecrack slinging negative articles......stop the presses!
Even if the Jets landed Price Paul would find a way to put a negative spin on things. I can't take anything he writes seriously anymore, it's clear as day he's letting his personal bias against the org get in the way of writing a balanced piece.

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07-06-2017, 08:35 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
Agree with Paul Wiecek on this one. Mason is a bit of a gamble and goaltending could blow up in the team's face again.

"The numbers tell the tale. Hellebuyck and his .907 save percentage were not nearly good enough last season and it cost the Jets a playoff berth as far as I'm concerned.

So Chevy goes out last weekend and signs a guy who had a .908 save percentage last season? I don't see how that solves the problem.

Mason is a decent backup goalie and light years better than Hutchinson. But the Jets need a competent, consistent starting goalie if all this young talent is going to have a chance to shine next season. And they still don't have one, in my opinion.
"
I guess Bishop is only a decent backup goalie as well given his performance last year and it looks like the Stars are going to be blowing over 10 million on 2 backups!

Mason is only available because he had a down year. If he had continued playing at the .917 plus level he was playing at the previous three years he wouldn't be available. He's far from only a good backup a quick check of his north of work over the last 4 seasons shows that, as it shows that Bishop isn't a backup either. Sloppy poor reporting is just that sloppy.

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07-06-2017, 09:30 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by gnp View Post
I think we have the best team with the "greatest potential" in comparison to the Oilers and Leafs. Let's consider what the Oilers have for "great" scoring talent- they have McDavid and Draitsaital. Let's estimate their scoring potential in their prime:

McDavid- say he scores---- 150 points ( that would be tops)

Draitsaital- say he scores- 100 points ( more likely 80- 90 points)

Other Guys ----------------- 120
_______

Total scoring---------------- 370 points ( from their big guns-added "misc guys")


Now let's look at the Jets:

Laine- say he scores 120 points ( realistic in his prime)

Ehlers- say he scores 110 points ( in his prime)

Scheiffle - say scores 100 points ( very realistic)

Kyle Connor- he scores 90 points ( he may get more)

Wheeler - say he scores 80 points ( pretty reliable)
__________
Yeah, think your point totals are aa little bit optimistic none of those are likely to ever break 100 points apart from McDavid. Not even Laine or Scheifele, as good as they may be. Sidney Crosby just had one of his better seasons and wasn't on pace to hit 100 points.

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07-06-2017, 11:27 AM
  #84
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Lazy reporting by Wiecek. Same level as Facebook commenters and tweeters.

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07-06-2017, 11:46 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Even if the Jets landed Price Paul would find a way to put a negative spin on things. I can't take anything he writes seriously anymore, it's clear as day he's letting his personal bias against the org get in the way of writing a balanced piece.
When it comes to sports, Wiecek makes a good City Hall reporter.

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Old
07-06-2017, 12:04 PM
  #86
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With the Leafs ya, not the Oilers. The Oilers gave a Anaheim a run and Anaheim is among the elite teams, especially in the playoffs. All those teams are bigger and tougher than we are. If we get in the playoffs, we will not last too long.

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07-06-2017, 12:08 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by raideralex99 View Post
Seriously Leafs got lucky last year with the loser point ... Tampa and the Islanders had more wins than the Leafs. The Jets have more talent than the Leafs but the Leafs have a coach and the Jets don't that's the problem.
That's true about the OTL point, without it, the Leafs don't make the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, they had a very healthy roster and an abnormal number of OTL pts, any regression and I think they should go back to full rebuild mode and trade Matthews for Kessel.

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07-06-2017, 12:36 PM
  #88
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We have a better overall team than either of Toronto or Edmonton. They have some stars, but they come at a big cost, as has been previously outlined. I'm very pleased with the direction of our team. We should be able to go toe-to-toe against any team in the next few seasons and have a good shot at winning.

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07-06-2017, 12:51 PM
  #89
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I don't necessarily endorse P.W.'s view on everything, but it was a good point. Still have 2 unproven goalies. Goaltending sunk the team last year. Hope it doesn't happen again.

Instead of just ripping on a reporter personally it is more constructive perhaps to refute the point. IMO the increase in effectiveness of the forwards and defense are going to hide the unproven goaltending in the regular season. But you go nowhere in the playoffs without something consistent between the pipes.

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07-06-2017, 01:02 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
I don't necessarily endorse P.W.'s view on everything, but it was a good point. Still have 2 unproven goalies. Goaltending sunk the team last year. Hope it doesn't happen again.

Instead of just ripping on a reporter personally it is more constructive perhaps to refute the point. IMO the increase in effectiveness of the forwards and defense are going to hide the unproven goaltending in the regular season. But you go nowhere in the playoffs without something consistent between the pipes.
Everybody was refuting the point. Mason has never been a back-up in his career and for the three years prior to last season posted above average save percentages for starters. That is not the definition of a decent back-up.

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07-06-2017, 01:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by mcpw View Post
Whoa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laineux View Post
Yeah, think your point totals are aa little bit optimistic none of those are likely to ever break 100 points apart from McDavid. Not even Laine or Scheifele, as good as they may be. Sidney Crosby just had one of his better seasons and wasn't on pace to hit 100 points.
Ya, Kyle Connor, great young player but too have a decent AHL season, then go to 90 pts in the NHL??? lol.

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07-06-2017, 01:04 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Bristo View Post
We have a better overall team than either of Toronto or Edmonton. They have some stars, but they come at a big cost, as has been previously outlined. I'm very pleased with the direction of our team. We should be able to go toe-to-toe against any team in the next few seasons and have a good shot at winning.
Not better than Edmonton by a long shot. Plus Talbot. Leafs, maybe.

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07-06-2017, 01:23 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
I don't necessarily endorse P.W.'s view on everything, but it was a good point. Still have 2 unproven goalies. Goaltending sunk the team last year. Hope it doesn't happen again.

Instead of just ripping on a reporter personally it is more constructive perhaps to refute the point. IMO the increase in effectiveness of the forwards and defense are going to hide the unproven goaltending in the regular season. But you go nowhere in the playoffs without something consistent between the pipes.
The point is that PW is getting ripped because he only took a sample size that reflected the narrative that he wanted to push.

During his entire stint with Philly (4 seasons) he posted a .918 save percentage while averaging 56 games per year. Those are above average starter numbers with a starters workload. There is nothing backup about those. Once again with him it's lazy selective reporting to push a narrative.

With regards to goalies who played greater than 50 games:

16/17 21st in save percentage
15/16 11th in save percentage
14/15 3rd in save percentage
13/14 12th in save percentage

Take out the two outlier years and you get an above league average starter. Which is where he fits on aggregate for goalies with a starter workload over that time period.

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07-06-2017, 01:39 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
Agree with Paul Wiecek on this one. Mason is a bit of a gamble and goaltending could blow up in the team's face again.

"The numbers tell the tale. Hellebuyck and his .907 save percentage were not nearly good enough last season and it cost the Jets a playoff berth as far as I'm concerned.

So Chevy goes out last weekend and signs a guy who had a .908 save percentage last season? I don't see how that solves the problem.

Mason is a decent backup goalie and light years better than Hutchinson. But the Jets need a competent, consistent starting goalie if all this young talent is going to have a chance to shine next season. And they still don't have one, in my opinion.
"
Wiecek completely ignores Mason's full performance history.

Wiecek has a grudge against the Jets (which he's articulated in previous columns) and appears to have decided to play the role of "official opposition" to the franchise. I think that's fine, unless you just spew nonsense, as he too often does. He's become basically unreadable. You always know what his "take" is going to be, and you never learn anything from his columns.

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07-06-2017, 01:41 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
The point is that PW is getting ripped because he only took a sample size that reflected the narrative that he wanted to push.

During his entire stint with Philly (4 seasons) he posted a .918 save percentage while averaging 56 games per year. Those are above average starter numbers with a starters workload. There is nothing backup about those. Once again with him it's lazy selective reporting to push a narrative.

With regards to goalies who played greater than 50 games:

16/17 21st in save percentage
15/16 11th in save percentage
14/15 3rd in save percentage
13/14 12th in save percentage

Take out the two outlier years and you get an above league average starter. Which is where he fits on aggregate for goalies with a starter workload over that time period.
Wiecek won't let facts stand in the way of one of his gripe sessions.

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07-06-2017, 01:55 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Crocket View Post
With the Leafs ya, not the Oilers. The Oilers gave a Anaheim a run and Anaheim is among the elite teams, especially in the playoffs. All those teams are bigger and tougher than we are. If we get in the playoffs, we will not last too long.
Jets perform extremely well when they are playing a rough, mean game. I remember us knocking several players out in a row when we were rocking. I am not afraid of those types of games.

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07-06-2017, 01:56 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bristo View Post
We have a better overall team than either of Toronto or Edmonton. They have some stars, but they come at a big cost, as has been previously outlined. I'm very pleased with the direction of our team. We should be able to go toe-to-toe against any team in the next few seasons and have a good shot at winning.
Mason is unproven? What?!

Edit: oops, quoted wrong person


Last edited by Guffman: 07-06-2017 at 06:27 PM.
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07-06-2017, 02:53 PM
  #98
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Not better than Edmonton by a long shot. Plus Talbot. Leafs, maybe.
Sure we are. That D is putrid. Also they shipped off Eberle for Strome
...so they now have very little secondary scoring.

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07-06-2017, 03:21 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipegger View Post
I don't necessarily endorse P.W.'s view on everything, but it was a good point. Still have 2 unproven goalies. Goaltending sunk the team last year. Hope it doesn't happen again.

Instead of just ripping on a reporter personally it is more constructive perhaps to refute the point. IMO the increase in effectiveness of the forwards and defense are going to hide the unproven goaltending in the regular season. But you go nowhere in the playoffs without something consistent between the pipes.
But Mason isn't unproven. It's lazy, sloppy reporting. Over the past 4 years, Mason has performed as a good starter, an elite starter, a good starter, and a below average starter.

Wiecek appears to have looked at Mason's last season and nothing else, then called it quits. It is lazy, sloppy reporting. Again, it is the same level of research and thought process that went into numerous hastily and angrily scribbled Facebook and Twitter messages when Mason was signed. I expect nothing more from random people on Twitter and Facebook. I believe I should expect more from a reporter.

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07-06-2017, 03:24 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
We have a lot of high end forward talent - I'd say that if we are able to compete, it'll be on depth at forward and defense, combined with much stronger goaltending than we've had in the past. My only concern at this point: Chevy has assembled a strong roster and filled some holes / gotten rid of the useless pieces, but can Maurice actually coach this team to a playoff berth? That's the last question mark for me.
Nope.

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