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Old
07-15-2017, 11:14 AM
  #176
skorf
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I think we will be similar or slightly worse.

Goaltending I don't think will be as good. I bet we play the backup more than last year and I'm hoping talbot is a top 5 goalie again but it's hard expect that.

D core will be similar. Having sekera out really hurts and I'm hoping Russell can play as he did last year but the klefbom larsson pairing has a year together plus both guys should even be better as they are a year older. Nurse and benning will also be a year older and should help us handle the loss of sekera.

Forwards is where we will be better. Losing ebs will hurt regardless of what some people say but I'm cautiously optimistic that strome can pick up a lot of the slack. Drai and mcd are a year older and I think both will take another step. Maroon, kassian, letestu and lucic should all remain similar. Caggiula and slepy both stepped up throughout the year, I expect both to continue improving this year. Jokinen I don't think will hit 60 points like some people think but he will be a big upgrade over pouliot. Our biggest improvement will be JP, I expect a big year and I think jokinen will really help him too. Lastly I may be the only one but I think nuge has a better year. I think he will be more comfortable (unless the fans tear him apart) and he's often been compared to datsyuk or other defensive Cs but guys like datsyuk, Bergeron, kopitar often step up around 23, i may be an optimist but I think nuge can too.

Injuries, hopefully none of our big guys are hit with the injury bug but it could happen and that'd affect us as well

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07-15-2017, 11:37 AM
  #177
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On paper we are the same or worse but the oilers are doing what Pittsburgh and Chicago do well which is pay your core and make multiple bets on prospects/cheap signings to fill in the gaps. If one of our bets over performs we are better than a year ago (which is likely). Also our division isn't going to be any tougher this year. Calgary isn't that much more improved on paper. Vancouver Anaheim and la didn't do much. San Jose lost a key player and Vegas is vegas. The oilers should be in contention for the division and they have the cap room to address any needs that become apparent at the trade deadline. I agree with the approach to this off-season.

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07-15-2017, 11:42 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by skorf View Post
I think we will be similar or slightly worse.

Losing ebs will hurt regardless of what some people say but I'm cautiously optimistic that strome can pick up a lot of the slack
Losing Ebs will do the opposite of hurt. Words from Ference in CoC.....

"I can’t empathize it enough, how important it is to come into a room and to know that everybody has bought in and everybody is going to be there for each other…,” Ference has said. “The attitude of knowing that there’s not just one or two guys who are going to go out and fight the battles, and then you look down the locker and you know that guy is never going to go to war for you. I mean, that’s demoralizing. It kills teams, to not be able to look across and know that guy has got your back just as much as you have his.”

All of the guys who refused to battle have been cut out. They are gone and replaced by guys who will. Between that and more growth from a very young team we will be fine.

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07-15-2017, 01:53 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by skorf View Post
Lastly I may be the only one but I think nuge has a better year. I think he will be more comfortable (unless the fans tear him apart) and he's often been compared to datsyuk or other defensive Cs but guys like datsyuk, Bergeron, kopitar often step up around 23, i may be an optimist but I think nuge can too.
I've heard this before but I don't buy into that comparison at all. I understand he wants to be a 2 way centerman LIKE Datsyuk but that's where the similarity ends. He's not as creative, not as shifty, not as strong on the puck like Datsyuk. He will never play like Datsyuk but will he be a 2 way centerman? Sure.

Datsyuk's forecheck in the offensive zone is relentless. How many times have you seen Nuge strip a defender and score? I just don't see it...

OT: We are worse cause Sekera's out with the ACL injury. Not even concerned about the offense but our D still needs improvement as per usual. Here's hoping Drai continues to play like he wants to win and not regress cause he got a pay raise.


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07-15-2017, 03:30 PM
  #180
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To be honest if Draisaitl's agent didn't insist on draaaaaaaaagging every negotiation out (took Gaudreau right until training camp last year), we probably could have signed one of Vanek/Iginla/Jagr and probably still can.

That's just kinda frustrating though. Just sign for 7.5 already Leon and get it over with.

If the net gain/loss is Jokinen + Iginla/Vanek + Strome + Autivu in and Eberle + Pouliot out ... I'd say even on paper that's a net win.

I think Jesse Puljujarvi will be more of a contributor next year too and I think at least one of Nurse or Benning will be better next year too if not both. That's not unreasonable.

The bottom line too is that McDavid Effect ... what happens when you have a player that good is it just boosts a team as a whole. Other guys get more confident, the team is able to weather certain storms better, said player makes a game breaking/changing play to keep the team in certain games. There's just more coming in that category too I feel.

I said this last summer on this board too -- in their first year guys like McDavid/Crosby/Gretzky basically play on pure talent alone, in their second year they begin to actually control the game, and that grows into year 3. So there's more to come here too folkes. Winning that McLottery is such a huge thing, we haven't even felt the full impact of it yet.


Last edited by Soundwave: 07-15-2017 at 03:43 PM.
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07-15-2017, 06:34 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
To be honest if Draisaitl's agent didn't insist on draaaaaaaaagging every negotiation out (took Gaudreau right until training camp last year), we probably could have signed one of Vanek/Iginla/Jagr and probably still can.

That's just kinda frustrating though. Just sign for 7.5 already Leon and get it over with.

If the net gain/loss is Jokinen + Iginla/Vanek + Strome + Autivu in and Eberle + Pouliot out ... I'd say even on paper that's a net win.

I think Jesse Puljujarvi will be more of a contributor next year too and I think at least one of Nurse or Benning will be better next year too if not both. That's not unreasonable.

The bottom line too is that McDavid Effect ... what happens when you have a player that good is it just boosts a team as a whole. Other guys get more confident, the team is able to weather certain storms better, said player makes a game breaking/changing play to keep the team in certain games. There's just more coming in that category too I feel.

I said this last summer on this board too -- in their first year guys like McDavid/Crosby/Gretzky basically play on pure talent alone, in their second year they begin to actually control the game, and that grows into year 3. So there's more to come here too folkes. Winning that McLottery is such a huge thing, we haven't even felt the full impact of it yet.
We have a full roster and then some. Also have less than two mill after ELC bonuses and Leon signing. Don't think Jagr is in the cards and I hope Iginla stays far away.

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07-15-2017, 07:11 PM
  #182
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"I can’t empathize it enough, how important it is to come into a room and to know that everybody has bought in and everybody is going to be there for each other…,” Ference has said. “The attitude of knowing that there’s not just one or two guys who are going to go out and fight the battles, and then you look down the locker and you know that guy is never going to go to war for you. I mean, that’s demoralizing. It kills teams, to not be able to look across and know that guy has got your back just as much as you have his.”
Spoken from the safety of the ltir. Do as I say, not as I do kids.

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07-15-2017, 07:31 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Spoken from the safety of the ltir. Do as I say, not as I do kids.
LOl. What? Too bad there wasn't a YouTube available of Drai's rookie season where he got CROSSCHECKED and Hall and?? just looked at a slumped Draisaitl and then skated off to the bench

Ference was bang on

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07-15-2017, 07:38 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by bobbythebrain View Post
LOl. What? Too bad there wasn't a YouTube available of Drai's rookie season where he got CROSSCHECKED and Hall and?? just looked at a slumped Draisaitl and then skated off to the bench

Ference was bang on
Bang on with his words, sure. Where was the action backing that up?
In the 150 or so games Ference suited up for, how many times do you recall him walking that talk? Precious few.
I guess he did beat up Lee Stempniak that one time
Wish I could find that bus stop photo ... cause I'm pretty sure Andrew Ference was standing there with the rest of the boys. Looking on ... doing nothing.
I'll give him credit though, the man sure did know how to talk a good game.


Last edited by harpoon: 07-15-2017 at 10:21 PM. Reason: add photo
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07-15-2017, 07:46 PM
  #185
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The competition for spots Chia has created on the NHL and AHL squads is going to pay off huge. Getting rid of players that think they deserve their spot like Ebs and Pou will generate more competivness. There are only so many spots and the young guys know it. Won't be surprised if Cagguila, Slepy or Pulju take big leaps this year. Players need opportunity and minutes to succeed and that's the environment Chia has made.

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07-15-2017, 08:04 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Bang on with his words, sure. Where was the action backing that up?
In the 150 or so games Ference suited up for, how many times do you recall him walking that talk? Precious few.
I guess he did beat up Lee Stempniak that one time
Wish I could find that bus stop photo ... cause I'm pretty sure Andrew Ference was standing there with the rest of the boys. Looking on ... doing nothing.
I'll give him credit though, the man sure did know how to talk a good game.
Lots of times, actually. Was one of the few Oilers of the time that actually played with some heart.

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07-15-2017, 08:14 PM
  #187
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Are we pretending Ference added something positive to the team because he retired?

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07-15-2017, 08:19 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by 3rdPeriodCringe View Post
I've heard this before but I don't buy into that comparison at all. I understand he wants to be a 2 way centerman LIKE Datsyuk but that's where the similarity ends. He's not as creative, not as shifty, not as strong on the puck like Datsyuk. He will never play like Datsyuk but will he be a 2 way centerman? Sure.

Datsyuk's forecheck in the offensive zone is relentless. How many times have you seen Nuge strip a defender and score? I just don't see it...

OT: We are worse cause Sekera's out with the ACL injury. Not even concerned about the offense but our D still needs improvement as per usual. Here's hoping Drai continues to play like he wants to win and not regress cause he got a pay raise.
I've seen at least one Red Wings fan say that Nuge is the most similar player to Datsyuk in the NHL today (naturally not as good, obviously). That said I haven't liked that comp since his rookie year. To be as good as Datsyuk, you also need to be dynamic offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Bang on with his words, sure. Where was the action backing that up?
In the 150 or so games Ference suited up for, how many times do you recall him walking that talk? Precious few.
I guess he did beat up Lee Stempniak that one time
Wish I could find that bus stop photo ... cause I'm pretty sure Andrew Ference was standing there with the rest of the boys. Looking on ... doing nothing.
I'll give him credit though, the man sure did know how to talk a good game.
I'm not trying to dump on Ference here but my memory of him here was that he would only fight if someone took liberties with him ala Stempniak. To be fair he's not a big guy and he didn't have the same layer of protection that he did in Boston, but he was far from a guy like Hendricks while here that would take on a much bigger man and take an ass kicking if need be to send a message or answer the bell for what he did.

Ference seems like a nice guy but his on ice leadership for his player type was far from special. Not sure how much of that is fair to pin on him and how much of it is fair to pin on his teammates though.

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07-15-2017, 08:22 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by bobbythebrain View Post
LOl. What? Too bad there wasn't a YouTube available of Drai's rookie season where he got CROSSCHECKED and Hall and?? just looked at a slumped Draisaitl and then skated off to the bench

Ference was bang on
I don't doubt that he was bang on, my problem is that I don't ever recall him setting an example on the ice like that. Maybe the one time that he hit Kassian after the whole Gagner broken jaw incident, but nothing else comes to mind.

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07-15-2017, 08:42 PM
  #190
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I'm still not sold on Todd McLellan. I believe a better coach gets the team past Anaheim in six max.

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07-15-2017, 08:46 PM
  #191
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Lots of times, actually. Was one of the few Oilers of the time that actually played with some heart.
The dark era when Gagner was the team enforcer. The 2010 to 2015 Oilers might have been the biggest bunch of pansies i've ever seen play hockey. Just a collection of skilled losers with zero heart.

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07-15-2017, 08:59 PM
  #192
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I'm still not sold on Todd McLellan. I believe a better coach gets the team past Anaheim in six max.
Seriously? The Sharks tried to win cups with Nabokov, Bryz and Niemi. Thats the biggest reason IMO they don't have 1 or 2 cups in his time there.

Marleau and Jumbo ghosting didn't help either. Losing 4 in a row to LA the year they won the cup has everything to do with the players.

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07-15-2017, 10:09 PM
  #193
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he was far from a guy like Hendricks while here that would take on a much bigger man and take an ass kicking if need be to send a message or answer the bell for what he did.
Well stated. Hendricks was a man who walked the talk every night.
Never worried about 'layers of protection' and never made any excuses. A guy you could legit expect to have your back.

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07-16-2017, 01:14 AM
  #194
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So basically we're looking at these lines knowing what we know now with chemitry:

'16-17
Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl
Lucic-RNH-Eberle
Slepyshev-Letestu-Kassian
Pouliot-Deharnais-Caggiula
Hendricks, Pakarinen, Pitlick (IR)

Klefbom-Larsson
Russell-Sekera
Nurse-Benning
Gryba

Talbot
Brossoit

'17-18 Potential lines:
Maroon-McDavid-RNH (floated by Stauffer and I'd love to see RNH mold himself into a sniper)
Lucic-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi (all have size and skill)
Jokinen-Strome-Slepyshev (all have skill, Jokinen helps Strome on faceoffs)
Caggiula-Letestu-Kassian (solid energy line)
Khaira, Pakarinen

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Benning
Russell-Auvitu
Gryba, Sekera (IR)

Talbot
Brossoit

Line by line breakdown:

'16-17/'17-18
Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl Vs. Maroon-McDavid-RNH
Possibly the best line in the NHL last season, edge '16-17

Lucic-RNH-Eberle Vs. Lucic-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi
A line that struggled until the last 20 games of the season against a line with the best player on either line and more size, edge '17-18

Slepyshev-Letestu-Kassian Vs. Jokinen-Strome-Slepyshev
A solid bottom 6 line with skill against a line with more skill down the middle, a more experienced Slepyshev and a high scorer in Jokinen, edge '17-18

Pouliot-Deharnais-Caggiula Vs. Caggiula-Letestu-Kassian
A grab bag of players that didn't fit and a rookie Caggiula against a sophomore Caggiula, a specialist in Letestu and a solid energy guy in Kassian, edge '17-18

Hendricks + Pakarinen Vs. Khaira + Pakarinen
More experience in Henricks, but his career is in its twilight sadly against a bigger and younger player in Khaira, Pakarinen is what he is IMO, TBD

Klefbom-Larsson Vs. Klefbom-Larsson
A full season together has me taking this pairing from this upcoming season, edge '17-18

Russell-Sekera Vs. Russell-Auvitu/Sekera
Hard to take this years version since Sekera maybe rusty upon his return, edge '16-17

Nurse-Benning Vs. Nurse-Benning
I take this year's pairing since they have a year of playoff experience under their belts and it's contract years for them, edge '17-18

Gryba Vs. Gryba
TBD, could fall off a cliff or stay about the same

Talbot Vs. Talbot
It'll be hard for Cam to improve on last season, that said he did tremendous in spite of having newborn twins at home, IMO he will be in the same ballpark as last season and the experience will be huge for him, TBD

Brossoit Vs. Brossoit
Down year in Bakersfield followed up by a good showing in Edmonton Vs. now having the job and knowing what he needs to do to keep it for the season, edge '17-18

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07-16-2017, 01:33 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
So basically we're looking at these lines knowing what we know now with chemitry:

'16-17
Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl
Lucic-RNH-Eberle
Slepyshev-Letestu-Kassian
Pouliot-Deharnais-Caggiula
Hendricks, Pakarinen, Pitlick (IR)

Klefbom-Larsson
Russell-Sekera
Nurse-Benning
Gryba

Talbot
Brossoit

'17-18 Potential lines:
Maroon-McDavid-RNH (floated by Stauffer and I'd love to see RNH mold himself into a sniper)
Lucic-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi (all have size and skill)
Jokinen-Strome-Slepyshev (all have skill, Jokinen helps Strome on faceoffs)
Caggiula-Letestu-Kassian (solid energy line)
Khaira, Pakarinen

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Benning
Russell-Auvitu
Gryba, Sekera (IR)

Talbot
Brossoit

Line by line breakdown:

'16-17/'17-18
Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl Vs. Maroon-McDavid-RNH
Possibly the best line in the NHL last season, edge '16-17

Lucic-RNH-Eberle Vs. Lucic-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi
A line that struggled until the last 20 games of the season against a line with the best player on either line and more size, edge '17-18

Slepyshev-Letestu-Kassian Vs. Jokinen-Strome-Slepyshev
A solid bottom 6 line with skill against a line with more skill down the middle, a more experienced Slepyshev and a high scorer in Jokinen, edge '17-18

Pouliot-Deharnais-Caggiula Vs. Caggiula-Letestu-Kassian
A grab bag of players that didn't fit and a rookie Caggiula against a sophomore Caggiula, a specialist in Letestu and a solid energy guy in Kassian, edge '17-18

Hendricks + Pakarinen Vs. Khaira + Pakarinen
More experience in Henricks, but his career is in its twilight sadly against a bigger and younger player in Khaira, Pakarinen is what he is IMO, TBD

Klefbom-Larsson Vs. Klefbom-Larsson
A full season together has me taking this pairing from this upcoming season, edge '17-18

Russell-Sekera Vs. Russell-Auvitu/Sekera
Hard to take this years version since Sekera maybe rusty upon his return, edge '16-17

Nurse-Benning Vs. Nurse-Benning
I take this year's pairing since they have a year of playoff experience under their belts and it's contract years for them, edge '17-18

Gryba Vs. Gryba
TBD, could fall off a cliff or stay about the same

Talbot Vs. Talbot
It'll be hard for Cam to improve on last season, that said he did tremendous in spite of having newborn twins at home, IMO he will be in the same ballpark as last season and the experience will be huge for him, TBD

Brossoit Vs. Brossoit
Down year in Bakersfield followed up by a good showing in Edmonton Vs. now having the job and knowing what he needs to do to keep it for the season, edge '17-18
I think this is a reasonable take using the lines you're using. Although I very highly doubt McLellan uses RNH on the wing. It just doesnt make any real sense.

Using those lines though, the one area I'd question is you saying the 2nd line of Lucic-Drai-Pulju is better than a 2nd line of Lucic-RNH-Eberle.

Drai is certainly better than RNH, but is he so much better that he makes up for the difference in Eberle being a 20 goal scorer vs Puljujarvi who last we saw in the NHL was a 1 goal scorer?

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07-16-2017, 01:39 AM
  #196
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I think this is a reasonable take using the lines you're using. Although I very highly doubt McLellan uses RNH on the wing. It just doesnt make any real sense.

Using those lines though, the one area I'd question is you saying the 2nd line of Lucic-Drai-Pulju is better than a 2nd line of Lucic-RNH-Eberle.

Drai is certainly better than RNH, but is he so much better that he makes up for the difference in Eberle being a 20 goal scorer vs Puljujarvi who last we saw in the NHL was a 1 goal scorer?
to be fair, how many goals did Eberle have while Pulju was in the NHL?

without checking, I bet Drai can make up for that, Pulju having a better year aside

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07-16-2017, 03:05 AM
  #197
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What ever Ference did or did not do as captain does not change the truth of the statement. The Austins never once stood up for a teammate and considered that someone else's job. That is poison as Ference said and we know who he was talking about.

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07-16-2017, 03:15 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I think this is a reasonable take using the lines you're using. Although I very highly doubt McLellan uses RNH on the wing. It just doesnt make any real sense.

Using those lines though, the one area I'd question is you saying the 2nd line of Lucic-Drai-Pulju is better than a 2nd line of Lucic-RNH-Eberle.

Drai is certainly better than RNH, but is he so much better that he makes up for the difference in Eberle being a 20 goal scorer vs Puljujarvi who last we saw in the NHL was a 1 goal scorer?
Eberle at the same age was a 0 goal scorer at the NHL level. Drai at the same age was a 3? goal scorer. Needless to say, I think that if Jesse steps in next season he will be much improved.

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