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Old
07-03-2017, 03:15 PM
  #1
Oddbob
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Playoffs

In many interviews, Ken Holland has stated, no rebuild, and they want the team in the playoffs in 2017-2018. We missed the playoffs last year, by a lot, are vets are 1 year older and 1 year more banged up. As well, our only new addition is a 34 year old, 4-5 type d-man, who will be 2-3 on our team. I just don't get how ownership and Holland, honestly think that this is going to get us in the playoffs.

This isn't a rip Holland/Ownership thread, just an honest question, on how they think we do better this year, than last year? With the exact same roster.

Add in the fact that:

Tatar will cost more money, won't bring more points
Mrazek is likely pissed, which is bad for the lockerroom

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Old
07-03-2017, 03:17 PM
  #2
WingedWheel1987
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They won't. It's that simple. The results will either be exactly the same or they will be a worse team if the rest of the teams in their pitiful division finally start to improve.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

Teams with one competent scoring line and no defense don't make the playoffs.

Parity means 1-2 medicore teams can luck into a playoff spot. It doesn't mean horrendous teams can make the playoffs.

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07-03-2017, 04:00 PM
  #3
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However how unlikely, the team still has a chance to make the playoffs. Mantha and AA are right at the age where players have breakout seasons. Larkin should bounce back or even take a step forward. Management still sees Mantha with potential to be elite. Personally, I think we end up around the same as last year and get another good draft pick so it's a win win situation. Or lose lose?

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07-03-2017, 04:13 PM
  #4
jkutswings
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What they likely THINK is that, last year, a bunch of things suddenly performed significantly below the average of the previous several years. And if some combination of:
* Goaltending
* Power play
* Puck possession stats

Have even a decent improvement, they'll be right back in the mix for the 8 seed.

But that also kinda implies that those things fell apart this past season due to circumstances that can be quickly remedied. And it's the WHY that leads many fans to disbelief, because they don't feel it was due to a fluke, or an easily coachable change in approach.

Many fans think the bottom fell out because of the combination of:
* Datsyuk leaving
* Kronwall and Ericsson finally burning out completely
* The chickens finally coming home to roost#

# Several years of decline in overall talent, through the combination of overpaying role players, which limits financial flexibility, and not managing to land any high-end talent in the draft, eventually hit the threshold of no longer being able to regularly compete with much of the NHL.

None of which is quickly remedied.

We'll see how next season unfolds. Either the young guys will significantly improve, and the ship will stop taking on water...or it'll be another ugly year, and break out the lifeboats for real.

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07-03-2017, 04:57 PM
  #5
Rzombo4 prez
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I get where you are coming from, but what did you expect him to say right before moving into a brand new $800mm barn? Even with a nice new rink attendance will dwindle once we start the actual rebuild (which will happen at some point). I can see why the organization wants to promote the hell out of the new rink. I don't expect him to admit to the fans that we expects his team to suck.

It is also a canned explanation as to why he isn't rebuilding. I think he honestly wants to make the playoffs next year (probably hoping we aren't as bad as we were last year, have a better PP and that some other teams run into injury issues). That being said, I also don't think he is expecting that we make the playoffs next year.

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Old
07-03-2017, 05:15 PM
  #6
HockeyinHD
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Mrazek plays well, Detroit makes the playoffs. Mrazek is an abomination, Detroit misses the playoffs again. There's enough on the roster to be a playoff team, and enough in the system to support an acquisition at the deadline if the team is on the bubble.

[mod]

Just throwing that out there.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 07-03-2017 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Not needed.
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Old
07-03-2017, 05:29 PM
  #7
Pavels Dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddbob View Post
In many interviews, Ken Holland has stated, no rebuild, and they want the team in the playoffs in 2017-2018. We missed the playoffs last year, by a lot, are vets are 1 year older and 1 year more banged up. As well, our only new addition is a 34 year old, 4-5 type d-man, who will be 2-3 on our team. I just don't get how ownership and Holland, honestly think that this is going to get us in the playoffs.

This isn't a rip Holland/Ownership thread, just an honest question, on how they think we do better this year, than last year? With the exact same roster.

Add in the fact that:

Tatar will cost more money, won't bring more points
Mrazek is likely pissed, which is bad for the lockerroom
Don't obsess over what Holland says, look at what he does. Sell for picks at the TDL? Don't trade future assets to protect anyone in expansion? Don't trade young players for immediate help? Sign mainly short-term, cheap FAs?

All moves that fit into a rebuilding strategy. Not a tanking strategy, which is what many think is the only way a rebuild can work. But definitely rebuilding moves. If he was intent on making the playoffs at any cost there are moves he could have made. He could have gone after Alzner, Shattenkirk, Radulov, Marleau. He could have traded picks and prospects.

Holland wants the team to try. He wants the young players to have expectations on them, to strive towards greatness. He wants Blashill to prove himself, not have a 'get out of jail free' card by saying they're not going to try to win. He wants fans to at least have a sliver of hope that the team will be worth watching.

But the important part is; he's not sacrificing the future. He said as late as in the draft; he's focusing more on the long-term. It's not an all-in approach towards the playoffs, he just doesn't want the team to start Game 1 of the season with an intention of losing as much as possible.

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Old
07-03-2017, 07:12 PM
  #8
Red Stanley
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Hmm, I could be wrong, but Holland hasn't stated recently he's not rebuilding. He's said he's not doing a long, scorched earth rebuilding. Regardless, I have a hard time believing they'll get into the playoffs with this group. I'll be very happy to see significant improvements, especially from youngsters and on special teams. I also want to see a big change in coaching philosophy. Those are the things I'm looking forward to. Our division is likely to be a lot more competitive next year and we had an awful inter-division record last year when it was a steaming pile of dog poo. I'll be shocked if we make it and pleasantly surprised if it's largely due to the growth of our young players.

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Old
07-03-2017, 07:24 PM
  #9
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Eh, every player on our team had an epic awful season except Z. It's not too unrealistic to assume everyone is at least a little better next year.

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Old
07-03-2017, 07:26 PM
  #10
The Zetterberg Era
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Eh, every player on our team had an epic awful season except Z. It's not too unrealistic to assume everyone is at least a little better next year.
I am not sure Z can be that good and he is so much more important than every other player being a little bit better. If he dips they can all be better and I think next year is as bumpy as can be. He is our lone elite talent left.


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Old
07-03-2017, 07:42 PM
  #11
Zetterberg4Captain
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The east has gotten alot stronger this summer

I would be surprised if we made it and more disappointed then excited if we did.

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07-03-2017, 08:00 PM
  #12
jkutswings
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Mrazek plays well, Detroit makes the playoffs. Mrazek is an abomination, Detroit misses the playoffs again. There's enough on the roster to be a playoff team, and enough in the system to support an acquisition at the deadline if the team is on the bubble.
That sounds very similar to those who claimed that Detroit lost to the Sharks because of Osgood, or beat the Avs because of Hasek. No matter how good or bad a goalie plays, he tends to get more credit/blame than he deserves.

Now did Mrazek play awful last year? Yep. But even if Howard plays 60 games this season, and Mrazek isn't even a factor, I'd expect this roster to miss the playoffs. The "meh" factor simply runs too deep.

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Old
07-03-2017, 08:37 PM
  #13
lomekian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
The east has gotten alot stronger this summer

I would be surprised if we made it and more disappointed then excited if we did.
If we make the playoffs it will be off a Mrazek rebound and big steps forward from AA, Mantha & Larkin in all likelihood. If that happens I'll be happy.

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Old
07-03-2017, 08:47 PM
  #14
lomekian
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Originally Posted by jkutswings View Post
That sounds very similar to those who claimed that Detroit lost to the Sharks because of Osgood, or beat the Avs because of Hasek. No matter how good or bad a goalie plays, he tends to get more credit/blame than he deserves.

Now did Mrazek play awful last year? Yep. But even if Howard plays 60 games this season, and Mrazek isn't even a factor, I'd expect this roster to miss the playoffs. The "meh" factor simply runs too deep.
To be fair, Mrazek went from a .921 Sv% to an almost dead 9 sv %. Given the number of 1 goal losses we had, a repeat of his 15-16 form would have had us in contention. Which is weird given how badly half this roster played compared to prior form.

I still have us outside looking in, but much can happen.
Larkin could make a massive step forward and Blash could work out a functional system.

Price could blow his ACL.
Likewise Karlsson.
Florida's moves could screw what chemistry they had.
Stammer could prove to be injury prone rather than just injured.
Buffalo could continue to be less than the sum of their parts.
The Leafs Wunderkinds could take a step back and their FA signings could flounder.
The Bruins could bottle it again.

I don't expect more than 1 or 2 of these things to happen, but it would only take 3 or 4 or their equivalents.
I'm not sure long term it would do us much good, but it would be better than being mired to the bottom of the division.

I know tanking is all the rage, but we really can't tank because our worst contracts have term and a lack of tradeability. Ideally we have a better year, our trade baits all do well and the lottery does us a favour. Cos if we tank hard, we could get a better pick, but we'd deffo be unable to trade the players we need to in order to benefit from the cheap years of a Dahlin or Lil' Svech

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Old
07-03-2017, 08:50 PM
  #15
Zetterberg4Captain
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If we make the playoffs it will be off a Mrazek rebound and big steps forward from AA, Mantha & Larkin in all likelihood. If that happens I'll be happy.
While I believe all of those can and will happen

I don't think it will be to the level we would need (i.e. two of those forwards would need to be 70plus or guys given the state of our defence)

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07-03-2017, 09:29 PM
  #16
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We should collectively be hoping they miss the playoffs again.

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07-03-2017, 09:37 PM
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First season without Datsyuk, miss the playoffs.

Is he coming back next season?

I'd be surprised if this team made the playoffs and if they do we can enjoy another 4-5 game beat down and a poor decision on draft day.

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07-03-2017, 10:08 PM
  #18
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We should collectively be hoping they miss the playoffs again.
Check.


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Old
07-03-2017, 10:27 PM
  #19
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To imagine them making the playoffs, you need to craft a work of fan fiction where everything goes right. Goaltending is good AND stays healthy. Several young forwards take huge steps forward AND stay healthy. Defense plays a stingy brand of hockey and yes, stays healthy.

You need basically the entire roster taking a big step forward, old man Zetterberg to continue his production last year, and for them to avoid any injuries to a player who may be stepping forward like Mantha, Larkin, AA, hell even Jimmy freakin' Howard. Whoever the savior is.

I won't say it's impossible. But you could say the exact same thing about literally every team in the league and their chances of winning. If this and this and that all go right... success! The Wings used to be good enough to weather injuries and bad luck and still stay on top. Now they need to hope every single ideal is hit to even make the playoffs.

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07-03-2017, 10:31 PM
  #20
Rzombo4 prez
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To imagine them making the playoffs, you need to craft a work of fan fiction where everything goes right. Goaltending is good AND stays healthy. Several young forwards take huge steps forward AND stay healthy. Defense plays a stingy brand of hockey and yes, stays healthy.

You need basically the entire roster taking a big step forward, old man Zetterberg to continue his production last year, and for them to avoid any injuries to a player who may be stepping forward like Mantha, Larkin, AA, hell even Jimmy freakin' Howard. Whoever the savior is.

I won't say it's impossible. But you could say the exact same thing about literally every team in the league and their chances of winning. If this and this and that all go right... success! The Wings used to be good enough to weather injuries and bad luck and still stay on top. Now they need to hope every single ideal is hit to even make the playoffs.
I very much agree. While some things/players will improve (PP, Sheahan, etc.), we will see regression or bad luck in other areas. I am expecting some net improvement, but not a ton.

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07-03-2017, 11:40 PM
  #21
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To imagine them making the playoffs, you need to craft a work of fan fiction where everything goes right. Goaltending is good AND stays healthy. Several young forwards take huge steps forward AND stay healthy. Defense plays a stingy brand of hockey and yes, stays healthy.

You need basically the entire roster taking a big step forward, old man Zetterberg to continue his production last year, and for them to avoid any injuries to a player who may be stepping forward like Mantha, Larkin, AA, hell even Jimmy freakin' Howard. Whoever the savior is.

I won't say it's impossible. But you could say the exact same thing about literally every team in the league and their chances of winning. If this and this and that all go right... success! The Wings used to be good enough to weather injuries and bad luck and still stay on top. Now they need to hope every single ideal is hit to even make the playoffs.

Bonus: There be a movie deal in the future. Shia Lebouf can play Mrazek.

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Old
07-04-2017, 08:25 AM
  #22
lomekian
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While I believe all of those can and will happen

I don't think it will be to the level we would need (i.e. two of those forwards would need to be 70plus or guys given the state of our defence)
Probably not, but you were saying you would be disappointed if we made the playoffs. I was just saying that what would need to happen for us to make the playoffs would pretty much be what you've said here, and thus, in its own way, would be exciting.

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Old
07-04-2017, 08:56 AM
  #23
JPE123
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Holland reminds me of an old saying." What you do speaks so loudly i cannot hear what you say"

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07-04-2017, 08:57 AM
  #24
Zetterberg4Captain
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Probably not, but you were saying you would be disappointed if we made the playoffs. I was just saying that what would need to happen for us to make the playoffs would pretty much be what you've said here, and thus, in its own way, would be exciting.
If those exact and specific things happened that would be great

But those not happening and we still made it in somehow would be disapointing (i.e. luck plus over production from zetts, nyquist, Abby and nielsen and Howard as our starter)

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07-04-2017, 09:52 AM
  #25
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No playoffs for you!

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