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Hey Kings fans, which is it??

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Old
03-31-2006, 07:09 AM
  #26
KingsFan7824
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I think it's a little difficult to make a real good judgement on the situation when the players don't even bother showing up at the end of March with a playoff spot on the line.

It's one thing to have less talent than the other team. It's one thing having very few players with a ton of playoff experience. It's one thing to underachieve.

These players grew up dreaming of winning a cup(whether or not the Kings have/had any shot at all, you play like you have a chance), not playing for their dream coach. They grew up dreaming of winning a cup, not playing under an owner that would come to the game, give them a wink, and watch them like a proud father. They're paid to show the _______ up, and they've been stealing their paychecks for the last 3 months.

It turns out they made some mistakes. I doubt many, if any, saw this from Roenick. You may not have liked him, or his mouth, or whatever, but nobody saw 8 goals in 50 games. Garon has been fairly inconsistent, but the team defense has been atrocious. The deadline deal did nothing. It sucks they gave up a couple young guys, but there will be more prospects to get. The Kings were close enough to the playoffs to take a shot. They weren't bad enough(although I wish this team was playing like this in November, this season would make more sense that way) to not make a move. I'd rather guys like Frolov, Brown, Gleason, Cammalleri, and Garon get some playoff experience, even if it's 4 games where the Kings get blown out 6-1 every game.

This summer, the Kings can get rid of some of the dead wood. Not all of it, but a lot of it. Get some more youth on the team, and more importantly get some more speed. Frolov, Conroy, Demitra are signed. Cammalleri will be signed. Brown will be signed, and hopefully his development into a top 2 line guy continues. The defense is going to need some work, but if they can get the right mix, maybe they can do something. Corvo hasn't been terrible, and he's got speed, so that's good(although I think he's a FA). I doubt Norstrom goes anywhere. Miller and Sopel, I don't know. Maybe one gets bought out, maybe both do(unlikely). Hopefully Gleason will be better resting up his knee injury. Garon has been up and down, but he hasn't had a player in front of him try in months, so who knows how many goals are legit, and how many he just blanks on.

Then there's the injury thing.

It would've been nice had the Kings either not played well in November, or actually given a damn in March. One or the other. It just doesn't make sense how they picked this time to quit.

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03-31-2006, 08:34 AM
  #27
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Well, for my money it's #4 and it's #2.

The team was not as good as Lieweke made them out to be, and there was a lot of underachieving. Also, Murray's time had run out and it was time for him and the Kings to part company and head their separate ways. Deep down inside everyone knew it, but only a few were willing to go on the record and say it. For those who continue to refuse to admit it, you are living in a dream world and need to wake up.

But c'mon, be real for just a moment: what else did you expect Lieweke to say at the start of a new season that was following a season lost to a lockout? Did you a) actually expect him to say anything other than what he did, and b) were the collective 'you' naive enough to just believe it? Lieweke needed to get butts back in the seats, and the fans were looking for any reason to allow them to do just that. His ploy worked and you're bent that you were suckered. Shame on you as well as him.

In hindsight, I would guess that most knew what they were getting for players on the roster, but their pride in their team and enthusiasm for the new season blinded their better judgement: Luc and JR probably should never have made the team, you knew you were getting a fragile Dmitra. Corvo had a good season, but Dempsey and Weaver didn't. Norstrom was a little disappointing. Parros? Giuliano? All season? The Parrish and Sopel deal pretty much was the crowning jewel on the end of the season. I thought it summed it up pretty well: desperation.

Hopefully, the owners will clean their management house top to bottom in the off-season (DT, Gilmore), let go of those stragglers and hangers-on players that need to be released, and work to build a better team under new management. Hopefully, the readers of this forum will think twice before they accept the cup of Kool-Aid that Lieweke will surely offer at the beginning of next season.

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03-31-2006, 08:59 AM
  #28
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I don't understand why you're all so upset... everything's fine!

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03-31-2006, 09:18 AM
  #29
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Well, what if we had healthy Demitra and Bure right now, do you think things would have been different?

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03-31-2006, 09:46 AM
  #30
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Well, what if we had healthy Demitra and Bure right now, do you think things would have been different?
Almost every player quit weeks ago. If they play like that without Demitra, what difference would it make if he's in there?

I'm usually an optimistic guy when it comes to the Kings, but even the people that "knew" they would miss the playoffs, did you really see this? This isn't even missing the playoffs. This is just flat out quiting half way through the season.

For anyone who hasn't, go over to the Oiler board. It's funny reading some of those posts. They're even surprised how just downright awful the Kings played. Even they can't understand where the team that was playing in LA earlier in the year went.

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03-31-2006, 10:10 AM
  #31
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Remember Dave Taylor's comments a few months back when he stated that he is happy with the team he has and comfortable going with this team to the playoffs? How'd that turn out?

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03-31-2006, 10:15 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Remember Dave Taylor's comments a few months back when he stated that he is happy with the team he has and comfortable going with this team to the playoffs? How'd that turn out?
Exactly, and the smart fans that shell out thousands a year won't forget. Myself included. Until, I see an overhaul with this club and the direction, i'm not going to waste my time or money.
I have plenty of hockey on the boob tube. The only way this club stops hosing us, is if the fans step up.

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03-31-2006, 11:35 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by swinginutter
...I have plenty of hockey on the boob tube.

BINGO!!! Here's the point. Real hockey fans, not just Kings fans, who are living in Los Angeles and get Center Ice, and pay attention to the rest of the NHL know that this team is a weak sister and falling behind faster than you can say JON SIM. Look at the non-playoff teams in the NHL and decide if you'd be happy to be a fan of theirs over the next 2-3 years? Pens? Absolutely... Caps? Undoubtedly... Panthers? I think so... Thrashers? Probably my favorite of this bunch... Columbus? Not too far behind Atlanta... I'll toss a coin on St. Louis, Minnesota, Toronto (another one with solid young kids coming up through the system) but then throw in teams like the Ducks, with their incredible set of young forwards, and Edmonton, and San Jose, and Calgary, and Vancouver, and... this team is not going to just add a veteran defenseman and make it all better.

Dark days, my myopic friends...

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03-31-2006, 12:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion
BINGO!!! Here's the point. Real hockey fans, not just Kings fans, who are living in Los Angeles and get Center Ice, and pay attention to the rest of the NHL know that this team is a weak sister and falling behind faster than you can say JON SIM. Look at the non-playoff teams in the NHL and decide if you'd be happy to be a fan of theirs over the next 2-3 years? Pens? Absolutely... Caps? Undoubtedly... Panthers? I think so... Thrashers? Probably my favorite of this bunch... Columbus? Not too far behind Atlanta... I'll toss a coin on St. Louis, Minnesota, Toronto (another one with solid young kids coming up through the system) but then throw in teams like the Ducks, with their incredible set of young forwards, and Edmonton, and San Jose, and Calgary, and Vancouver, and... this team is not going to just add a veteran defenseman and make it all better.

Dark days, my myopic friends...
Not only Center Ice, but OLN and HDNet. Yes, I watch tons of hockey and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this club is just downright atrocious. Very, very frustrating to watch. There are some other boring teams out there, don't get me wrong, but our club plays stupid. That's more frustrating than boring hockey. You're constantly screaming at incompetence on the ice.
I do feel that this club is ok as far as youth is concerned. With every con there is a pro, and Cammy, Brown, and Gleason all got good experience at this level. Build around that and Frolov and also Kopitar and we might be on the right path.
This season is a wash, and bad judgement is an understatement at every move we made.
We need to start from the top down. But as far as what we put on the ice, build from the back first.

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03-31-2006, 12:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion
BINGO!!! Here's the point. Real hockey fans, not just Kings fans, who are living in Los Angeles and get Center Ice, and pay attention to the rest of the NHL know that this team is a weak sister and falling behind faster than you can say JON SIM. Look at the non-playoff teams in the NHL and decide if you'd be happy to be a fan of theirs over the next 2-3 years? Pens? Absolutely... Caps? Undoubtedly... Panthers? I think so... Thrashers? Probably my favorite of this bunch... Columbus? Not too far behind Atlanta... I'll toss a coin on St. Louis, Minnesota, Toronto (another one with solid young kids coming up through the system) but then throw in teams like the Ducks, with their incredible set of young forwards, and Edmonton, and San Jose, and Calgary, and Vancouver, and... this team is not going to just add a veteran defenseman and make it all better.

Dark days, my myopic friends...
painful words to write, painful words to read, but even more painful if no lesson is learned from the disaster that has been the last 7 (or 37 depending on your viewpoint) years.

All the teams tubby mentioned HAVE set themselves up for future success and they did it by sacrificing the present and being honest with their fans. Fans don't like losing but as long as they feel management has a PLAN, they'll put up with it. Tim Lieweke's idea of a plan was to "compete now" and "build for the future"...the very prescription for mediocrity! Tragically, seven years later, the kings are a VETERAN team that is going to miss the playoffs yet again. how anyone can be optimistic about the future is completely beyond me. And yet, I GUARANTEE that this summer the kings will sign one or two more veterans (probably high priced) and spin another yarn about this being a playoff team. And yes, they may even make the playoffs next year...and be worse for it in 2-3 years as those veterans fade into the sunset. In hockey, champions are BUILT not bought or assembled. The "new" NHL will not change that fact. As fans, you can be satisfied with the hope of an 8th place finish each year or recognize that the only true way to build a championship team is to tear the present mess down from the top and completely rebuild. Painful medicine? yes. But I'd rather suck for 2-3 years with a young and building team then be mediocre with a veteran group with no future. Right now, I can think of no other teams in the league with a bleaker future than the kings except for Chicago or St Louis. Pass the Lieweke kool-aid...

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03-31-2006, 12:23 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion
BINGO!!! Here's the point. Real hockey fans, not just Kings fans, who are living in Los Angeles and get Center Ice, and pay attention to the rest of the NHL know that this team is a weak sister and falling behind faster than you can say JON SIM. Look at the non-playoff teams in the NHL and decide if you'd be happy to be a fan of theirs over the next 2-3 years? Pens? Absolutely... Caps? Undoubtedly... Panthers? I think so... Thrashers? Probably my favorite of this bunch... Columbus? Not too far behind Atlanta... I'll toss a coin on St. Louis, Minnesota, Toronto (another one with solid young kids coming up through the system) but then throw in teams like the Ducks, with their incredible set of young forwards, and Edmonton, and San Jose, and Calgary, and Vancouver, and... this team is not going to just add a veteran defenseman and make it all better.

Dark days, my myopic friends...

Your kidding right?

Pens: No cap room, WAY overpriced vets and no way to get a defense. How is that good? Sure in 2 or 3 years after some of those contracts end they could have the talent to be great. But thats a LONG 2 or 3 years. At least the Kings can hit the market in the off-season.

Caps: 1 good player no defense no forward depth and no goalie.

Panthers: 2 good players lots of young forwards but with a even worse problem. How do they keep loungo? You want to be a fan of a team who are going to probably trade their best player?

Thrashers: Ok you got me. They could be great. Get a little older maybe a nice vet on defense...

Columbus: 1 good young player (ok maybe 2) and a bunch of overpriced vets.

St. Louis: No idea honestly. So many young prospects god only knows if any of them are good. Think its going to be a long rebuild though.

Minnesota: 1 good player who they are thinking of trading (good buy offense when they lose Gabroik). No money to spend on UFA. You want a team with a min-salary?

Toronto: Thing that always kills this team is that they have to win now or they are killed.

Ducks: They are fine. I agree.

Edmonton: Maybe

San Jose: I seem to remember what it was like to have a legit 1st line center. I also seem to remember what it was like to lose the guy and lose the whole team as well. They are a 1 line team. Thats dangerious in my mind. A guy sticks his knee out and your season is done.

Calgary: 1 Good player (and its not Iginla). They can only play defense (increadible defense). Nearly no offensive ability. But hey in the end I would rather be a great defensive team and in the playoffs then not....

Vancouver: They are in a worse situation then us. But at least they are going to make a huge amount of cap room in the off season.

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03-31-2006, 12:56 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Your kidding right?
No... because I am looking at what they have on the horizon. You watch... you'll be PRAYING you lived in Washington or Pittsburgh to be able to watch your home team succeed.

(and, as a side note... you ought to spend some time watching the Blue Jackets... one good player, maybe two indeed...)

Brule is on his way... Klesla is a stud on defense, Foote is pretty legit and believe me, Duvie Westcott is a hell of a lot smarter than you may think... BOTH goaltenders run rings around anyone the Kings have had in nets for the past 20 years...


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03-31-2006, 01:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Tadite
San Jose: I seem to remember what it was like to have a legit 1st line center. I also seem to remember what it was like to lose the guy and lose the whole team as well. They are a 1 line team. Thats dangerious in my mind. A guy sticks his knee out and your season is done.
I would happily take their 2nd line (Michalek-Marleau-Bernier) over anything the kings could cobble together. It is young and has been dominant over the past several weeks.

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03-31-2006, 01:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by tomd
I would happily take their 2nd line (Michalek-Marleau-Bernier) over anything the kings could cobble together. It is young and has been dominant over the past several weeks.
How about that San Jose is so deep on defense that they can afford to make Doug Murray a healthy scratch, and STILL dress seven defensemen. Scott Hannan... MONSTER! Kyle McLaren... MONSTER! now add Ehrhoff, Carle, Preissing, Gorges and Davison to the mix... all young... all have upside... Jesus... THAT'S A DEFENSE.

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03-31-2006, 01:05 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Tadite
Your kidding right?

Vancouver: They are in a worse situation then us. But at least they are going to make a huge amount of cap room in the off season.
No, "your" kidding, right?

The Kings are in free fall and Vancouver is in a playoff position, but they are worse off?

Let's take a look at the prized "future of the franchise" players:

Brown has 1 goal, 1 assist in his last 10 games and is -5 in those games
Frolov might as well have phoned in the last 3 games
Gleason didn't have a single game in March with a + in the +/-
Garon has given up 39 goals in his last 10 games
Cammalleri isn't exactly on fire with 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 8 games and is -8 during that period

The Kings are 3-7 in their last 10 games when it really counted
while Vancouver was 5-5 during that stretch, including a thrashing of the Kings
but Vancouver is worse off?

Unbelieveable.....

Oh, I forgot - you were the one who kept insisting that "games in hand" didn't matter when looking at the standings.

I take it all back - I'm convinced that you believe this drivel...

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03-31-2006, 01:12 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by PSP
Oh, I forgot - you were the one who kept insisting that "games in hand" didn't matter when looking at the standings.
.


At least your consitant you hate the Kings when they are winning and you hate them when they are losing.



Like normal you don't read before you post.

The post was who is in the better position in the next few years. I'll take the Kings over the Canucks.

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03-31-2006, 01:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion
No... because I am looking at what they have on the horizon. You watch... you'll be PRAYING you lived in Washington or Pittsburgh to be able to watch your home team succeed.

(and, as a side note... you ought to spend some time watching the Blue Jackets... one good player, maybe two indeed...)

Brule is on his way... Klesla is a stud on defense, Foote is pretty legit and believe me, Duvie Westcott is a hell of a lot smarter than you may think... BOTH goaltenders run rings around anyone the Kings have had in nets for the past 20 years...

I don't buy the Washington thing. Having one amazing player isn't enough.

Pitt... maybe... they the franchise center and maybe a franchise goalie. But god damn they can't seem to make even 1 good FA purchase.

As for the Blue Jackets. I honestly don't know what your seeing. They don't seem good on either offense or defense.

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03-31-2006, 01:30 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Tadite
At least your consitant you hate the Kings when they are winning and you hate them when they are losing.
When were they "winning"? You only thought they were doing well because you chose to overlook and ignore the problems.

....and just for the record, I don't "hate" the Kings. I "hate" what AEG / TL / DT / et al have done, turning the Kings into a perennial also-ran.

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03-31-2006, 01:44 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by PSP
When were they "winning"? You only thought they were doing well because you chose to overlook and ignore the problems.

....and just for the record, I don't "hate" the Kings. I "hate" what AEG / TL / DT / et al have done, turning the Kings into a perennial also-ran.
Turned?

When exactly were we better then now?

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03-31-2006, 01:48 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
I don't buy the Washington thing. Having one amazing player isn't enough.

Pitt... maybe... they the franchise center and maybe a franchise goalie. But god damn they can't seem to make even 1 good FA purchase.

As for the Blue Jackets. I honestly don't know what your seeing. They don't seem good on either offense or defense.

do want to know what he sees in the Blue Jackets? a full season of Rick Nash alone probably would've gotten them into the playoffs. then you add the injuries to Klesla this season on defense which will end with seeing him playing about the same amount of games this year as Nash (slightly over a half of a season), and a much clearer picture begins to develop.

Brule is a wrecking ball with tremendous skill, so breaking his leg didn't help them much either. he was limited to only 7 games this season, and was returned to his junior team. he may have not done anything completely significant this season... but next year, this kid is going to show his stuff. and he's smart too (apparently). twice he has been the recipient of the scholastic player of the year award.

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03-31-2006, 01:53 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by wabwat
do want to know what he sees in the Blue Jackets? a full season of Rick Nash alone probably would've gotten them into the playoffs. then you add the injuries to Klesla this season on defense which will end with seeing him playing about the same amount of games this year as Nash (slightly over a half of a season), and a much clearer picture begins to develop.

Brule is a wrecking ball with tremendous skill, so breaking his leg didn't help them much either. he was limited to only 7 games this season, and was returned to his junior team. he may have not done anything completely significant this season... but next year, this kid is going to show his stuff. and he's smart too (apparently). twice he has been the recipient of the scholastic player of the year award.
Exactly. Columbus has 2 legitimate young 1st line forwards (Zherdev and Nash) and possibly a 3rd in Brule; they have a young franchise defenseman in Klesla; and they have 2 outstanding young goalies. That is a hell of a good start to build around...WAY better than ANYTHING in the kings organization.

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03-31-2006, 01:55 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Remember Dave Taylor's comments a few months back when he stated that he is happy with the team he has and comfortable going with this team to the playoffs? How'd that turn out?

Remember when Dave Taylor later said he was looking to make a trade and e eventually brought in Parrish (good) and Sopel (bad)

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03-31-2006, 02:37 PM
  #48
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I'm not sure that Leiweke should lose his job. His job is to run a business and, for all I know, he might be the best damn businessman out there. That is something that Anshuetz needs to decide.

But when it comes to running the actual hockey side of things, I think he needs to keep his nose out of it and hire the right people to run it. He tries to get himself involved in it too much and duped season tix holders into believing that this team would be one of the best ever just to sell them more tix. On paper, I am hard pressed to find anyone who thought that this was the best Kings team to start the year. I certainly didn't buy into it as I made the argument that the team is built for next year when a lot of their dead-weight contracts would go off the books and some of their prospects would be coming into their own. If I was a STH, I'd be the most pissed at him.

But what Leiweke did was open his mouth about a topic in which he knows nothing about (player personnel) and put his GM, his coach, and his players up against the wall, blindfolded and with a cigarette in their mouths to sell some extra tix. That, in a nut shell, is his fatal mistake. When he starts talking about who's to blame and who is working for their job, he needs to take a good look in the mirror first. I don't know / don't think he should lose his job. But he definitely does need to keep his nose out of things he shouldn't be poking it into.

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03-31-2006, 03:06 PM
  #49
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I'm not sure that Leiweke should lose his job. His job is to run a business and, for all I know, he might be the best damn businessman out there. That is something that Anshuetz needs to decide.
Kings could miss every playoff for the rest of eternity and nothing would happen to Leiweke.

The reason is that he isn't a part of the Kings organization. Guy is the head of AEG in the region. You know that whole downtown LA re-organization thing? Thats all Leiweke. The guy is working on multi-Billion dollar investments. Kings are just a hobby at best.

He only keeps in contact with the Kings because he likes hockey. which by the way is the only reason why the Kings have had any money invested in them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
On paper, I am hard pressed to find anyone who thought that this was the best Kings team to start the year. I certainly didn't buy into it as I made the argument that the team is built for next year when a lot of their dead-weight contracts would go off the books and some of their prospects would be coming into their own. If I was a STH, I'd be the most pissed at him.
.

Best Kings team in a decade.... Probably not. I still think the team that just got Jason Allison was the best team since Wayne.

But the team this year was close on paper.

The season my be gone but that doesn't mean at the beginning it didn't look promasing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
When he starts talking about who's to blame and who is working for their job, he needs to take a good look in the mirror first. I don't know / don't think he should lose his job. But he definitely does need to keep his nose out of things he shouldn't be poking it into.

I don't know honestly. At least he had the guts to admite that it was everyone in the organizations fault including himself for this season. He didn't just use AM as a scape-goat.

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03-31-2006, 03:11 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
At least he had the guts to admite that it was everyone in the organizations fault including himself for this season. He didn't just use AM as a scape-goat.
Who other than AM and JVB have paid the price so far?

I takes real guts to admit fault when there are no consequences....

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