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What line is the better one?

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:39 AM
  #76
The Fuhr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Tough defensive units in the East? Heh..

edit to add content:

The East is loads more wide open for scoring and free play than the West. The West is extremely tough and gritty and most teams play a rigorous defensive style. Points are skewed in the East's favor because of this.

Other then the Leafs there a pretty good group of Dmenin the east. Im sure most Eastern Confrense first defensive units are better then the West second defensive units except Calgary.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:41 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Man, where are you Nuck fans? kmad's getting attacked by a mob of wolves on an issue where he clearly has a valid point.

The Ottawa 3 are very, very good. No doubt about it, a dream line (especially for a Flames fan). But the Sedin's... god damn...

No Nucks fans because they know the truth,

I actually like the Sedins and think they will be dominate players 3 seasons from now. Like top 10 players in the NHL. Today no and thats why the Cash line is better. The Sedins are great no doubt but not as good as the Cash line.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:42 AM
  #78
kmad
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Outside of Philadelphia and Ottawa I don't think any teams in the East have what I'd call an elite defense.

Carolina's top guys are Hedican and Tverdovsky.. Rangers top guys are Malik and Roszival.. Sabres top guys are Lydman and Kalinin.. etc.

Not to mention simple observation will show you that the East is FAR more wide open.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:45 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
No Nucks fans because they know the truth,
it's damn near 3AM in Vancouver. if I didn't earn a day off tomorrow, I'd be asleep with the rest of them.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:48 AM
  #80
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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If you had to build a team to win the cup how many would actually build their team around the Ottawa line? Jason Spezza is this generations Pierre Turgeon.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:49 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Tough defensive units in the East? Heh..

edit to add content:

The East is loads more wide open for scoring and free play than the West. The West is extremely tough and gritty and most teams play a rigorous defensive style. Points are skewed in the East's favor because of this.
No kidding..

The West has Dallas, Calgary, Minnesota who play more defensive minded hockey than anyone in the league except for New Jersey. The West is definitely the tighter, more defensive minded conference. Just like the East owns the West offensively..

Anyway, I prefer the Sens trio with rather ease. And that's no knock on the Sedin line, but the Sens trio are all individual All-Stars who can all decide games on their own. I think the Sedin line relies too much on chemestry instead of individual effort, which is good, but dangerous. This is also the first time they're producing like this, the Sens trio, and in particular Heatley and Alfredsson have shown to be capable of producing like this under different circumstances.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:50 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
it's damn near 3AM in Vancouver. if I didn't earn a day off tomorrow, I'd be asleep with the rest of them.

True

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:55 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER
If you had to build a team to win the cup how many would actually build their team around the Ottawa line? Jason Spezza is this generations Pierre Turgeon.
Pierre Turgeon career
NHL 1268GP 509G 808A 1317PTS Regulor Season
NHL 104GP 35G 60A 95PTS Playoffs

If thats what Spezza career looks like I will be very pleased. Add a few cups to that and you got a hall of fame career.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:55 AM
  #84
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If you guys want to see how good the sedins are.. watch more canuck games..


the sedins control the puck the whole shift and hem everybody in their own zone..

even if they don't score.. the other team ices the puck a lot..

Their passing/pucksupport/boardwork are unmatched..

im not going to argue that the sedins are more skilled in the sense of speed, shot power, accuracy than the ottawa line

but like phanuthier said.. if i need a goal.... the sedins are clutch.. its not flashy but very effective..

its hard to explain.. they have so much hockey sense and chemistry between daniel and henrik.. they can create out of nothing.. and the more chaotic the situation the better for them..

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:56 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crows
Don't forget, The sedins average around 4 less minutes per game then the CASH line.... over the entire season the sedins have averaged around 16 min per game.. lately.. around 18... this includes time PENALTY killing.

The sedins for the amount of average ice time given are probbaly the most productive playes in the entire NHL.

Carter does not penaly kill.. so carter is averaging around 14-15 min per night. Without the PK the sedins average around 14-15 min a night "attack time"

Daniel: 21 goals 68 points
Henrik: 19 goals 71 points
Carter 30 goals........

That's a first line on most teams..... this is a second line.
true but it's only a second line on ott. and it's there 1st line we are comparing them to.i find it really hard and unbelievable that some one would even compare this line and then take van's line. THIS YR it's a given ott line-one of the best lines in hockey if not the best compared to van's line-a good line.the thing that ruins the fourm is some people are so bias [homers] to there team that they can't even be objective or even remotely truthfull. all they do is -if it's got anything to do with my team we win. back to the question maybe in the next few yrs the may catch up buy this yr ott line wins hands down.if you asked every coach in the league what line they would take and put on there team right now. i think you would be hard pressed to see 1 coach take van's line including van's coach.

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:58 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon
If you guys want to see how good the sedins are.. watch more canuck games..


the sedins control the puck the whole shift and hem everybody in their own zone..

even if they don't score.. the other team ices the puck a lot..

Their passing/pucksupport/boardwork are unmatched..

im not going to argue that the sedins are more skilled in the sense of speed, shot power, accuracy than the ottawa line

but like phanuthier said.. if i need a goal.... the sedins are clutch.. its not flashy but very effective..

its hard to explain.. they have so much hockey sense and chemistry between daniel and henrik.. they can create out of nothing.. and the more chaotic the situation the better for them..
The Sedins are awsome like Ive said but are they as offensive as the Cash line no. If there was 30 second to go in a game do you put the Sedin line out over the Cash line?

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Old
03-31-2006, 04:58 AM
  #87
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
Pierre Turgeon career
NHL 1268GP 509G 808A 1317PTS Regulor Season
NHL 104GP 35G 60A 95PTS Playoffs

If thats what Spezza career looks like I will be very pleased. Add a few cups to that and you got a hall of fame career.
Yeah but you wont be adding any cups when you have Pierre Turgeon on your team. Talent enough to put up huge numbers during the regular season. But at the same time shys away from physical play, horrible defensively, doesnt step up his game in the playoffs.

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Old
03-31-2006, 05:02 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER
Yeah but you wont be adding any cups when you have Pierre Turgeon on your team. Talent enough to put up huge numbers during the regular season. But at the same time shys away from physical play, horrible defensively, doesnt step up his game in the playoffs.

95 points in 104 playoff games not good.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/...=nhl-avalanche
The numbers show he has been pretty good come playoff time.

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Old
03-31-2006, 05:08 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19nazzy
The Ottawa line no question...
Yeah I agree, there's pretty much no question. The Sedins have come into their own and Carter's ok, but The Ottawa line can dominate and control a game by themselves. The Sedins would need a better winger to do that.

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Old
03-31-2006, 05:10 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej
Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson would burn the West .
Ironically Ottawa has been burned by the West. They have a losing record against the Western conference.

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Old
03-31-2006, 05:11 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund
Ironically Ottawa has been burned by the West. They have a losing record against the Western conference.

Its a small sample size though. Over a whole season the sens would dominate.

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Old
03-31-2006, 05:42 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
The Sedins are awsome like Ive said but are they as offensive as the Cash line no. If there was 30 second to go in a game do you put the Sedin line out over the Cash line?
So it's late in a game (< 2minutes in the third):

If my team is trailing by one or more goals, I'd play the Cash line because there's more scoring touch on the line and I don't think you can debate that, which is why this part is brief when compared to...

If teams were tied, I honestly think I'd play the Sedins. What they give up in top end offensive talent they make up for with an elite level puck posession game. They give the opposition very little to work with whether matched against top lines or checking lines, and yes, drawing top defense pairings (which they have for at least the last two months).

I've been trying to think of a good Sens analog. Okay, imagine that Peter Schaefer has an identical twin brother (Dieter Schaefer? ) with which to own the boards in the offensive zone, only now consider that Peter and Dieter are each talented offensive threats in their own right- top 15 at their respective positions in scoring.

Okay, that got strange in a hurry.

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Old
03-31-2006, 06:24 AM
  #93
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
95 points in 104 playoff games not good.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/...=nhl-avalanche
The numbers show he has been pretty good come playoff time.
No he hasnt. This is a guy that for most of his career averaged over 1.25 PPG yet in the playoffs couldnt even average 1.00 PPG those are bad playoff numbers if you want a number 1 center to lead you to the cup and thats exactly what Spezza is gonna be. A great player, but he'll never take you anywhere.

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Old
03-31-2006, 06:33 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Here's a god damn statistic for you.. same statistic tossed around last year to show that the Sedins were more effective than Naslund and Bertuzzi:

Points per minute, adjusted to subtract PK time..

Jason Spezza - 57 gp - 75 pts - 18:53 ATOI = 0.0697 points per minute
Daniel Alfredsson - 67 gp - 90 pts - 16:32 ATOI = 0.0801 points per minute
Dany Heatley - 72 gp - 91 pts - 21:06 ATOI = 0.0599 points per minute

Daniel Sedin - 74 gp - 66 pts - 12:27 ATOI = 0.0716 points per minute
Henrik Sedin - 74 gp - 71 pts - 12:40 ATOI = 0.0757 points per minute
Anson Carter - 73 gp - 52 pts - 12:29 ATOI = 0.0571 points per minute
Thankyou! yes here are some stats that actually MEAN something.
It basically says that if the sedins had ~20 minutes of attack time they would right there with the cash line. I can't believe people can be so ignorant.

Also, everybody knows that the west is tougher and has better defense.

For my money, i'll take the Brother line any day. I'm not saying they're outright better.. it's hard to quantify that either way. I am saying that the Sedin's are every bit the cash lines equal, with a completely different playing style and better chemistry as stated by others.

Come playoff time, the sedin's WILL be a more effective/productive line! (I'm talking PPM btw, to all of you moron's earlier that don't understand that). Why do i say this? The run and gun style of the cash line will not be as effective as defense tightens up in the playoffs. The sedins puck posession/cycle game cannot be stopped! The sedins have more intelligence and better passing plays and the cash line has better speed and shooting.

Anyways, just watch and learn people.

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Old
03-31-2006, 06:34 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER
No he hasnt. This is a guy that for most of his career averaged over 1.25 PPG yet in the playoffs couldnt even average 1.00 PPG those are bad playoff numbers if you want a number 1 center to lead you to the cup and thats exactly what Spezza is gonna be. A great player, but he'll never take you anywhere.

0.94

Over his career, thats the playoff PPG of Steve Yzerman.

(181pts / 192 games played. Source: hockeydb.com)

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Old
03-31-2006, 06:36 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Man, where are you Nuck fans? kmad's getting attacked by a mob of wolves on an issue where he clearly has a valid point.

The Ottawa 3 are very, very good. No doubt about it, a dream line (especially for a Flames fan). But the Sedin's... god damn...
I agree completely on both of these points. Kmad has a VERY valid point. People need to accept that fact that these 2 lines should be seen (at the very least) to be at an equal level of superiority. For NOW. Like i said, wait for the playoffs and you will see why the Sedin's are in fact a better line.

on top of that they are a more complete line because they are excellent PKers!

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Old
03-31-2006, 06:59 AM
  #97
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I can't believe this thread, Canuck homers are trying to say that their second line of a struggling team is better than the most productive line in Hockey right now.

I'm sorry but I've watched alot of Canuck games and you're sadly mistaken if you think you can win the argument solely based on your own operational definition of 'chemistry'.

Tell me, if they have better chemistry then why haven't they outproduced Ottawa's line? Futhermore why aren't they the first line of their own team if they're so productive and have so much chemistry?? Oh, and why has Vancouver been in the basement lately with this amazing dominating line of "CHEMASRTRY"??

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Old
03-31-2006, 07:11 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us
Sedin-Sedin-Carter?

or

Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson?


The latter has more points for sure.. But what line is better? Is it even a question?
Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson without a doubt.

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Old
03-31-2006, 07:25 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
If I could put out any line with a minute left to get me a goal, it would be the Sedin's line.
Funny how the Cash line has scored twice in the final minute in the past month, once against Tampa Bay and once against New Jersey, to earn points for the Senators.

This whole thread is a joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodapopinski
on top of that they are a more complete line because they are excellent PKers!
The Sedins and Carter have a combined 1 SHG. Alfredsson has 5 SHG by himself AND Ottawa's PK is currently 2nd in the league. Vancouver is 16th.

What is in the water out West?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund
Ironically Ottawa has been burned by the West. They have a losing record against the Western conference.
Nothing to do with the Northwest division though, against whom Ottawa picked up 8 points on the road and didn't lose in regulation. (3-0-2) This "NW is TOUGH OMG PWNED!" crap is sadly much much more hype than anything else.


Last edited by NyQuil: 03-31-2006 at 07:33 AM.
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Old
03-31-2006, 07:26 AM
  #100
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This is a joke. What it comes down to is this: West>>>East
And don't ever forget it.

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