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Murray or Bulis?

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Old
03-31-2006, 08:52 AM
  #26
Dan K
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I'm convinced Murray stole Slick Nick's GF.

This has to be like the third thread you've started - or turned into - a Murray-bashing thread lol.

He is in no way spectacular, but he hits and blocks shots, and he's still young. Admittedly, he'd be better on the fourth line than the third right now, but it's not like he's getting that much ice time, and he's willing to do what it takes.

Meanwhile, reports have indicated that Bulis is turning into a headcase, not wanting to play less than 12 minutes a night, and wanting to be used only on an offensive line.

So Bulis is not willing to do Murray's job. There is no choice to make.

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03-31-2006, 08:57 AM
  #27
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I don't think Murray's much of a hitter either and he doesn't have much of a brain. In fact, he's a lot like Bulis that way. But you can't say he's bad on the PK. Our PK has been awesome.

I think Bo is just trying to light a fire under Bulis myself. He's been sleepwalking and he wants to wind him up for the playoffs. I expect to see him back in the lineup Saturday. What he brings is forechecking and the odd goal. Not much more. But I like his energy. He'd look good alongside Begin and Downey on the 4th line (if he buys into the role).

Zednik, the same thing. Zednik's play has improved quite a bit since Gainey took over. He had that groin injury earlier in the year and then the Olympics. It just looks like he had personal problems or something. Now he's playing harder and digging in on the boards again. I like the way he's been playing.

Bonk, same thing. I don't know what Gainey told him, but he's a totally different player now. Again, another guy who was injured. Maybe these guys are just healthy now?

Ribeiro has been useless though. What he was doing on the ice in the last minute last night, I don't know. It was his bad clearing pass that led to the tying goal. I hate that he's our second line center. He can't make time and space for us anymore and doesn't use his teammates well anymore either. He also took a very bad penalty near the end of the game. I don't get this guy. Hopefully he can come up with a playoff like he did in 2004.

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Old
03-31-2006, 08:58 AM
  #28
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Murray's excellent on the PK.

Slick Nick's proving (again) to be utterly useless when it comes to any objective analysis.

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03-31-2006, 09:08 AM
  #29
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I think some comments that Gainey and Bullis have supposedly made have been exagerrated. I don't buy into Stefan's opinion but otoh Nick, I think Murray brings value. Don't compare them as an either or situation. Murray brings a physical presence and some backbone to a kid line and is doing a decent job on the penalty kill. I remember agame when Carbo was miked, and he made a comment to BG that they wouldn't improve on the pk until they were willing to block some shots. Murray is willing. They need a few guys who will take an assignment and go with it. Bullis is obviously more talented. Murray may never score 10 goals in a year.

He does his job though. They can count on him to move some bodies around and work in his own zone. Goal scoring ? Great if he chips in, but other players are paid to provide that. Has Bullis become an issue attitude wise ? No idea, but I believe the staff sees him as an in betweener. That may not be fair, and I'd rather see him with Bonk and Begin than Downey, but Carbo seems to have better hockey sense than me.

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03-31-2006, 09:32 AM
  #30
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I think Murray has been playing well. He works hard and is very quick which works well with Perezhogin and Plekanec. What he needs to do more of is go to the net. As posted earlier Bulis wants a scoring role he wants to put points up and for him to do that Zed or Ribs must come out. I would rather him take Rib's spot because I really fell ZED will have a great playoffs. Ribs had an all right game yesterday but I would like to see Bulis in on Saturday night. Ribeiro in the line-up will just juice up the Bruins because they absolutely hate him.

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Old
03-31-2006, 09:38 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
takes stupid penalties
You're talking about Bulis right?

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Old
03-31-2006, 09:50 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Murray's excellent on the PK.

Slick Nick's proving (again) to be utterly useless when it comes to any objective analysis.

It's pretty obvious why Murray is in there. Why can't NICK understand that? Watch him bang out there, leading to turnovers.....leading by example......teamates respect that.

We have other bulis type players. Bob has a variety of players now.....very smart. Murray is another former team captain & leader..........& he's young.

But.......If you don't get it....................you'll never get it. But most of the poster do............

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Old
03-31-2006, 10:01 AM
  #33
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He'll be in the lineup soon enough... but I don't think he gonna be back next year.

Gainey's trying to break him into what he wants him to do for the playoff run. But that'll never be Bulis game.

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Old
03-31-2006, 10:17 AM
  #34
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABIMUS-MAXIMUS
It's pretty obvious why Murray is in there. Why can't NICK understand that?
Slick Nick idealizes Perezhogin. Whenever Perezhogin's not producing as he should Nick starts blaming other players and chopping them down to account for Perezhogin's lack of production.

Notice the real purpose of his thread is that he feels Murray "kills the line" (referring to Plekanec/Perezhogin's line).

By the way: note that the best scoring chance Perezhogin and that line had was when Murray banked a pass off the boards in transition up to a streaking Perezhogin who got a semi-break. He didn't score. The puck came back for another scoring chance in front, again no luck.

I don't mind that Perezhogin's not producing. He's getting chances, skates hard and works on his defensive play as well. But don't blame Murray for his lack of chances: Murray is often the high-man on the line, allowing both Perezhogin and Plekanec to commit deep in the offensive zone. Murray also drives the net and gives Perezhogin/Plekanec room to operate.

Slick Nick: a challenge for you. How about you come up with specific instances where you believe Murray's made mistakes on the PK, or in the defensive zone, or where he holds the line back offensively.

I'm not talking about putting forth scintillating analysis such as: "[Bulis is] 1 000 000 times better than Murray in his own zone" as you've done this thread, but I mean real objective analysis on specific plays. That way we'll actually be discussing hockey and not blanket statements.

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03-31-2006, 10:25 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Slick Nick idealizes Perezhogin. Whenever Perezhogin's not producing as he should Nick starts blaming other players and chopping them down to account for Perezhogin's lack of production.

Notice the real purpose of his thread is that he feels Murray "kills the line" (referring to Plekanec/Perezhogin's line).

By the way: note that the best scoring chance Perezhogin and that line had was when Murray banked a pass off the boards in transition up to a streaking Perezhogin who got a semi-break. He didn't score. The puck came back for another scoring chance in front, again no luck.

I don't mind that Perezhogin's not producing. He's getting chances, skates hard and works on his defensive play as well. But don't blame Murray for his lack of chances: Murray is often the high-man on the line, allowing both Perezhogin and Plekanec to commit deep in the offensive zone. Murray also drives the net and gives Perezhogin/Plekanec room to operate.

Slick Nick: a challenge for you. How about you come up with specific instances where you believe Murray's made mistakes on the PK, or in the defensive zone, or where he holds the line back offensively.

I'm not talking about putting forth scintillating analysis such as: "[Bulis is] 1 000 000 times better than Murray in his own zone" as you've done this thread, but I mean real objective analysis on specific plays. That way we'll actually be discussing hockey and not blanket statements.
I'm glad you brought this up...that's why i haven't been too concerned with Perezhogin's production, he's working out there the little icetime he is getting...

As for Murray, he brings an element that we don't have on this team...he should be in the lineup every night, he's as physical as Downey, but he can take more of a regular shift...and i like the way he drives to the net.

I really can't see why anyone would complain about Garth Murray

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Old
03-31-2006, 10:31 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
I like Murray and Downey on the 4th line. Reminds of the good ol' days of Ed Ronans and Steve Rooneys. Nothing wrong with having a couple of pure pluggers around for 10 mins or less per game to do that job.

Murray doesn't really compare to Bulis in any way, though. Bulis is vastly more skilled, and can hold his own on any of the top 3 lines. He can pressure the D, he can do an adequate turn killing penalties, and he can pop 20 goals per season. I don't think he deserves to be in the doghouse that he's in; I think most of his criticism is more of the frustrated "he could be soooo much better" variety, forgetting that what he actually is isn't so bad really. Sure, if he could play hard all the time, if he could find ways of connecting more on his scoring chances, if he could keep his forechecking pressure and physical play consistent, well then he'd be a fabulous player for sure. But looking past what he could be, he's still actually a decent player IMO. Much better than many of the other players in our current lineup. (Zednik is a prime example).
I don't agree with the bolded part at all. All we hear from fans about Bulis is how he has no hands, no talent, he's a North-South type player etc. Lots of his critics have been unjustified and I don't think anybody feels Bulis can actually be more than what he is, at least production wise, but the fact remains, just like Ryder, Bulis' stats are deceptive this year. He's shied away from contact all year long (when he's on the receiving end) and has taken lazy habits on the backcheck.

I think the only one thinking Bulis can or should be more is Bulis himself. Last couple years, when he was working hard every shift and creating great forecheck pressure while taking his defensive responsabilities to heart, he indeed was a solid 3rd liner, but now he's no longer either a good 3rd liner nor a good top-6 for that matter. As a result, he's a healthy scratch in favor of guys like Murray who understand and accept their roles.

Bulis has been replaced by better suited and hungrier players in every facet of the game where he was once valued. As a result, he no longer fits on this team.

All that being said, this isn't to say Bulis isn't a good player. I think he'd be a very solid 3rd line center for example if he could just stick to what he does best, but on this team, it's hard to find where he belongs. Let's just put it this way, on a team with too much inconsistent players, he's the first inconsistent player on my to-go list (followed closely by Zednik and Ribeiro).

BTW, for the ones who read French, here's an article that shows the gap that exists between Bulis' evaluation of his work and Gainey's: Cyberpresse.ca


Last edited by Munchausen: 03-31-2006 at 10:49 AM.
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Old
03-31-2006, 10:36 AM
  #37
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I think a point we haven't mentionned regarding Perez/Pleks/Murray is that they are expected to give a high energy, up tempo shift. Get the speed going to softem up the opposing D. They take th ereins more together than if either of them played with a vet. When Perez, or the other 2 are beside a more experienced player they tend to defer to them and play a bit more tentatively. You know I've got Lambert/Risebrough/Tremblay in the back of my mind. They aren't similar players but it's a similar situation. Keep them together and they'll stay loose.

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03-31-2006, 10:50 AM
  #38
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Both bring diferent styles of hockey, garth murray is a fourth line who brings a physical game, some intensity and some grit. Bulis on the other hand gives you speed. I dont think its fair to say murray sucks like some of you are saying. Its not like hes costing us games or anything, hes doing his job and doing it well. Gainey likes the players that pay attention to the technichal aspect of the game or pays attention to details, Bulis has not been doing that and thats why hes not in the line up. If you think murray is going to score 10 or 15 goals of course youre going to be disapointed. I like what murray brings to the table. Hes the type of player you want when youre facing the toronto,boston of the world. Bulis is the of player that more suited when were playing a fast paste game like when were playing the hurricanes,flyers or rangers.

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Old
03-31-2006, 10:51 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
17 goals, best +/- .. (3rd scorer, 6th pointer) 1 000 000 times better than Murray in his own zone.. vs a 4pts scorer, -3, bad in every aspect of the game, too slow and stupid for Plekanec and Zhogin, takes stupid penalties... dosen't hit hard at all.
Case closed.

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Old
03-31-2006, 11:15 AM
  #40
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No matter what people say about Bulis, he should be playing. We need his 17 goals, speed and experience.

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Old
03-31-2006, 11:19 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny
No matter what people say about Bulis, he should be playing. We need his 17 goals, speed and experience.
Actually, the success we're having says otherwise. I really dont like Bulis, I think he doesnt fill any role on this team. Maybe on a team like Chivago or New York he could be appreciated but his offensive and defensive play are not enough to warrant the ice time he wants.

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03-31-2006, 11:22 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny
No matter what people say about Bulis, he should be playing. We need his 17 goals, speed and experience.
Bulis isn't a natural goal scorer. He has 17 goals. Big deal. Dagenais had 17 goals in fewer games last season. Bulis with his 17 goals (4 of which came on the same night, right?) is not any more of a scoring threat than Koivu, Zednik, Ryder, Kovalev, Plekanec, Higgins, Ribeiro or Perezhogin. These days, Bonk and Begin are just as much of a scoring threat as well.

That's 8-10 players that are just as much of a scoring threat as Bulis. In other words, he doesn't have any offensive game that the team doesn't already have.

The team--as it is--is one of the faster teams in the league. Bulis is fast, but not too effective in his past few dozen outings. Speed without a purpose is as useful as Dagenais.

Experience-wise, Bulis is playing like a rookie. He's poor in the neutral zone, and lackadaisical offensively. There's a reason he was removed from the PK: he's been lazy and not playing fundamental hockey.

Of course, you shouldn't let any of these facts cloud your judgment that Gainey and Carbonneau should be listening to your opinion.

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03-31-2006, 11:22 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Actually, the success we're having says otherwise. I really dont like Bulis, I think he doesnt fill any role on this team. Maybe on a team like Chivago or New York he could be appreciated but his offensive and defensive play are not enough to warrant the ice time he wants.
I don't agree with that...if you look at Bulis, he has his faults no doubt, but give me the choice between him and Ribeiro? and I take Bulis 10 x out of 10...

Ribeiro and Kovalev doesn't work, both like to control the puck and slow the game down, Kovalev just does it better...

But I won't argue with a winning lineup.

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Old
03-31-2006, 11:22 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
I don't agree with that...if you look at Bulis, he has his faults no doubt, but give me the choice between him and Ribeiro? and I take Bulis 10 x out of 10...
I've been thinking about who Bulis reminds me of this season, and I've finally figured it out: he's been a mini-Rucinsky all year long.

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03-31-2006, 11:25 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I've been thinking about who Bulis reminds me of this season, and I've finally figured it out: he's been a mini-Rucinsky all year long.
I guess you could say that...actually that's pretty good..

Bulis might shy away from contact, but he does play a physical game as noted by the number of hits he has...

I don't think Gainey is fooling anyone...Bulis is a UFA at the end of the year, and obviously he's no longer in the plans and he's already started to phase him out and he's seen what other players can do in his place.

Bulis hasn't been any worse than Ribeiro or Zednik for example.

I don't buy it, i'm sorry.

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03-31-2006, 11:25 AM
  #46
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Obviously not many people have been introduced to "offensive Bulis".
"Offensive Bulis" will not be satisfied with a bottom 6 role he needs a top 6 spot. So he needs to replace either Ribs or Zed on the top 6. You can't compare "offensive Bulis" to a 4th line grinder anymore.

N.B. He's still the same guy who can't finish he just has a different name.

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03-31-2006, 11:28 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe
Obviously not many people have been introduced to "offensive Bulis".
"Offensive Bulis" will not be satisfied with a bottom 6 role he needs a top 6 spot. So he needs to replace either Ribs or Zed on the top 6. You can't compare "offensive Bulis" to a 4th line grinder anymore.

N.B. He's still the same guy who can't finish he just has a different name.
Maybe...but let's be serious here...

let's take Richard Zednik, a guy who's been given chances time and time again this year to snap out of his year long funk, and he hasn't done jack ****, does everyone realize how bad a season Zednik is having?

Take Bulis and Zednik's season's this year and tell me who's been better between both of them?

It's Bulis by a longshot, the problem is, Bulis is a UFA, while Zednik is not...

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Old
03-31-2006, 11:34 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8

Experience-wise, Bulis is playing like a rookie. He's poor in the neutral zone, and lackadaisical offensively. There's a reason he was removed from the PK: he's been lazy and not playing fundamental hockey.
You still don’t get it, do you? He does not want to play on PK, he wants to be used on PP unit. Is it so difficult to understand?

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03-31-2006, 11:34 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
Maybe...but let's be serious here...

let's take Richard Zednik, a guy who's been given chances time and time again this year to snap out of his year long funk, and he hasn't done jack ****, does everyone realize how bad a season Zednik is having?

Take Bulis and Zednik's season's this year and tell me who's been better between both of them?

It's Bulis by a longshot, the problem is, Bulis is a UFA, while Zednik is not...
Zednik has been really bad, but he's at least maintained his toughness. He doesnt mind opponents being in his face and he's proven time and time again he's a monster in the playoffs. Bulis is the polar opposite of that and what cup winning teams dont have.

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Old
03-31-2006, 11:38 AM
  #50
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This is all part of BG's plan to reduce the value of Bulis so he can re-sign him. After being benched so much and ripped so much, nobody will offer BUlis big bucks and BG can re-sign him for even less than he's making now.

I would laugh if this was actually true. HAHHAA

By the way RIBEIRO SUCKS, we should tie him to Bulis so they can go to a new team together in the offseason

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