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Hellebuyck Files for Arbitration

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Old
07-06-2017, 12:26 PM
  #26
Gm0ney
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
Even for a **** NHL goaltender it is pretty easy to argue he is underpaid.

For reference. Hutchinson made $1,300,000 last season.

Hellebuyck made less than $800,000.

Last season there was fewer than 10 goaltenders who played 10 or more NHL games that got paid less than Hellebuyck.

I mean, guys like Berra and Hammond basically got paid double what Hellebuyck did.
Well he was on an ELC. He should get 1 or 2 years at around $1.5M per...maybe the Jets are lowballing him with the QO or ~$1M?

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07-06-2017, 03:02 PM
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07-06-2017, 03:38 PM
  #28
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Honestly after the season this guy had and now that he has after that the nerve to be doing something like this, I would dump him as soon as possible. I don't see him as a very talented goalie anyway. He might still fool some teams with his talent, so maybe a good trade for the Jets could be still made? Could some American team be made a sucker with believing in their homeboy?

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07-06-2017, 03:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Honestly after the season this guy had and now that he has after that the nerve to be doing something like this, I would dump him as soon as possible. I don't see him as a very talented goalie anyway. He might still fool some teams with his talent, so maybe a good trade for the Jets could be still made? Could some American team be made a sucker with believing in their homeboy?
What?

This isn't exactly unusual. All this means at this moment is that other teams can't offer sheet him.

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07-06-2017, 03:59 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
What?

This isn't exactly unusual. All this means at this moment is that other teams can't offer sheet him.
He should settle for the salary that the Jets are offering for him. If he doesn't, make the lowest possible deal with him that he will accept and trade him as soon as possible with a couple of other players as a package. Otherwise it could be even difficult to get anything substantial to really make the Jets goalie situation balanced enough to really become one of the top teams in the league. Hellebuyck will not be the goalie that the Jets need, not as a number one and not even as a number two.

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07-06-2017, 04:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Honestly after the season this guy had and now that he has after that the nerve to be doing something like this, I would dump him as soon as possible. I don't see him as a very talented goalie anyway. He might still fool some teams with his talent, so maybe a good trade for the Jets could be still made? Could some American team be made a sucker with believing in their homeboy?


WAY too soon to make a call on Helle like this.

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07-06-2017, 04:04 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
He should settle for the salary that the Jets are offering for him. If he doesn't, make the lowest possible deal with him that he will accept and trade him as soon as possible with a couple of other players as a package. Otherwise it could be even difficult to get anything substantial to really make the Jets goalie situation balanced enough to really become one of the top teams in the league. Hellebuyck will not be the goalie that the Jets need, not as a number one and not even as a number two.
Why? Why would any player in the NHL do that?

And why should we trade him if he doesn't accept the first offer that the Jets offered him?

You seem to take this as a personal slight by Hellebuyck. I just don't understand why.

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07-06-2017, 04:08 PM
  #33
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Holy **** some members seems to be misinterpreting what this means.

What it means: Hellebuyck is a promising RFA who will be negotiating his contract over the summer.

What it doesn't mean: Hellebuyck is using heavy-handed tactics.

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07-06-2017, 04:15 PM
  #34
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WAY too soon to make a call on Helle like this.
Sure, you could be right. But so could I. I just haven't seen him ever as a very talented goalie. He is ok/meh as a number two goalie for an average NHL team, but if the team wants to be a serious contender in already a couple of years (which I seriously believe that the Jets could be with just a clear goalie upgrade from last year and some other small changes that might have been already done so far), they should really not waste time with trying to develop as uncertain and even unlikely talent as Hellebuyck is.

This is of course my opinion, but it is based very much on what I have seen from him in a couple of years in loads of NHL matches and also several international matches. I am just not at all convinced with him, even in the future, as he simply is too stiff and awkward with his movement and positioning. He has some size, but he really does not convince me much otherwise. Of course you never know for sure with goalie talents, but I definitely don't see him being a very reliable goalie for at least several seasons, if he will ever be that. So wasting time with him is something that the Jets just shouldn't be doing at the moment in my opinion.

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07-06-2017, 04:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Holy **** some members seems to be misinterpreting what this means.

What it means: Hellebuyck is a promising RFA who will be negotiating his contract over the summer.

What it doesn't mean: Hellebuyck is using heavy-handed tactics.
Evil Little is way too direct and to the point. We should ban him from HF Jets and send him to any other HF team board for any considerations we can get back for him.

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07-06-2017, 04:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
Holy **** some members seems to be misinterpreting what this means.

What it means: Hellebuyck is a promising RFA who will be negotiating his contract over the summer.

What it doesn't mean: Hellebuyck is using heavy-handed tactics.
This. Players file for arbitration all the time. There is nothing underhanded or stronghanded about it. Chevy will sign Helle to a contract before the arbitration date, and we'll move on. Some of you people need to chillax with the aggressive dismissals of Helle.

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Evil Little is way too direct and to the point. We should ban him from HF Jets and send him to any other HF team board for any considerations we can get back for him.
He was far more nicer than I attempted to be the first time I tried responding to this topic.

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Old
07-06-2017, 04:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
Why? Why would any player in the NHL do that?

And why should we trade him if he doesn't accept the first offer that the Jets offered him?

You seem to take this as a personal slight by Hellebuyck. I just don't understand why.
Simply because he is not worth more at the moment. If he seriously wants and gets a clear salary upgrade, it is time to make the deal that he will accept, and then get rid of him in a package with maybe Dano, and Matthias or some pick and get a more experienced goalie as the number two for Mason. No use to waste any time and money on Hellebuyck in that situation. If Hellebuyck would have settled for what the Jets were offering, then I would see any point in still keeping him and checking him out for at least a couple of years. But even then I would seriously think that the Jets should be actively searching for options to get a clearly more reliable number two than Hellebuyck is. I would like to be able to write more positively about Hellebuyck, but unfortunately I can't do it on the basis of what performances and weaknesses I have seen from him so far.

I will be happy though if he could even quickly prove me wrong and be a reliable goalie for the Jets. I just doubt very much that this will happen.


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07-06-2017, 05:01 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Simply because he is not worth more at the moment. If he seriously wants and gets a clear salary upgrade, it is time to make the deal that he will accept, and then get rid of him in a package with maybe Dano, and Matthias or some pick and get a more experienced goalie as the number two for Mason. No use to waste any time and money on Hellebuyck in that situation. If Hellebuyck would have settled for what the Jets were offering, then I would see any point in still keeping him and checking him out for at least a couple of years. But even then I would seriously think that the Jets should be actively searching for options to get a clearly more reliable number two than Hellebuyck is. I would like to be able to write more positively about Hellebuyck, but unfortunately I can't do it on the basis of what performances and weaknesses I have seen from him so far.

I will be happy though if he could even quickly prove me wrong and be a reliable goalie for the Jets. I just doubt very much that this will happen.
You have no idea what he has been offered so I have no idea how you have come to the conclusion that you did.

So far he has had one single subpar season going back 4 different leagues. Pump the brakes a bit haha.

Edit: Little and Wheeler both filed for arbitration about 5 years ago. Good thing the Jets didnt look to offload them.

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Old
07-06-2017, 05:31 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Sure, you could be right. But so could I. I just haven't seen him ever as a very talented goalie. He is ok/meh as a number two goalie for an average NHL team, but if the team wants to be a serious contender in already a couple of years (which I seriously believe that the Jets could be with just a clear goalie upgrade from last year and some other small changes that might have been already done so far), they should really not waste time with trying to develop as uncertain and even unlikely talent as Hellebuyck is.
Hey now, first of all don't try and sneak words into my mouth or imply I'm all for Helle here. I'm not saying he's Carey Price. My position is firmly that this isn't an uncalled-for move by Helle. I will say that if he gets $1.5M-$2M that he's worth that in today's NHL. But all he has to be for me to be 'right' here is a league-average goaltender.

YOU on the other hand are the one putting his neck on the line as it were. You're saying he's never going to amount to anything of value to us. but you're making your own arguement against yourself in the bold above - next year (and until Helle changes our minds with his play) he is our second goaltender. If he simply maintains his production with the club as a backup to Mason, that would be just fine for whatever an arbitrator will award him coming off his ELC and without having done anything noteworthy in the NHL.


Quote:
This is of course my opinion, but it is based very much on what I have seen from him in a couple of years in loads of NHL matches and also several international matches. I am just not at all convinced with him, even in the future, as he simply is too stiff and awkward with his movement and positioning. He has some size, but he really does not convince me much otherwise. Of course you never know for sure with goalie talents, but I definitely don't see him being a very reliable goalie for at least several seasons, if he will ever be that. So wasting time with him is something that the Jets just shouldn't be doing at the moment in my opinion.
Like I'm saying above, if all Helle ever becomes is an average goaltender, that's great. If he becomes more, that's a bonus. But he is 24 years old, and most goaltenders don't fully come around to their potential until 27ish.

So yeah - maybe you are right, and maybe you're wrong. But you are knee-jerking hard enough to give yourself a concussion, and you might be throwing away a perfectly fine goaltender and looking like an ass hole (not to mention also looking like a dumbass) to the rest of the league at the same time.

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07-06-2017, 05:57 PM
  #40
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It's almost comical that from 2011-17, Pavelec had a slew of supporters, even though his career average is 0.907%, and he was paid nearly $4,000,000/season during his tenure as a Jet.

Yet Hellebuyck has superior numbers, is younger, and only has made a fraction of the money that Pavelec did $667,500/year, and people are calling him selfish for going through arbitration? Do these people have any idea how much a goalie comparable to Hellebuyck makes? Even Hutch makes far more than Hellebuyck. Some people will dump on Helle regardless of what he does.

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07-06-2017, 06:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Simply because he is not worth more at the moment. If he seriously wants and gets a clear salary upgrade, it is time to make the deal that he will accept, and then get rid of him in a package with maybe Dano, and Matthias or some pick and get a more experienced goalie as the number two for Mason. No use to waste any time and money on Hellebuyck in that situation. If Hellebuyck would have settled for what the Jets were offering, then I would see any point in still keeping him and checking him out for at least a couple of years. But even then I would seriously think that the Jets should be actively searching for options to get a clearly more reliable number two than Hellebuyck is. I would like to be able to write more positively about Hellebuyck, but unfortunately I can't do it on the basis of what performances and weaknesses I have seen from him so far.

I will be happy though if he could even quickly prove me wrong and be a reliable goalie for the Jets. I just doubt very much that this will happen.
Geez, scorched earth because a guy elected for arbitration.

Do we even know the Jets have an offer outside the QO?

90% of the time electing arbitration is just a way for the player to set a deadline on negotiations.

There are a number of people in this thread that really have to do some research on arbitration, how it works, and how often it gets elected by players.

It isn't a big deal. It is pretty much automatic for a player to elect arbitration when he's without a contract and eligible.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of money Hellebuyck wants in his next deal. Frankly, if he were pushing for a big contract this works AGAINST HIM because his numbers were so poor this year.

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07-06-2017, 06:08 PM
  #42
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I mean, really all that we can infer from this is that Connor Hellebuyck wants to continue playing professionally....

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07-06-2017, 06:25 PM
  #43
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I mean, really all that we can infer from this is that Connor Hellebuyck wants to continue playing professionally....
Ok, maybe you guys are right and I need to hold my horses at the moment. But I really hope that this arbitration doesn't lead into anything ugly for the team spirit. And also I seriously hope that he does not get a substantial raise as the result. And if he does, I really hope that if he is not traded during the starting season, that he will really be a lot lot better than he has been so far. The truth is that just one really reliable goalie is not enough to be a real contender nowadays. I would just hate to see the Jets waste several years with struggling with an only average Hellebuyck being the backup for Mason.

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07-06-2017, 06:30 PM
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Wow, people willing to dump Helle already? He has a pretty good pedigree and his main issue last year was inconsistency. Obviously not ready to take on the #1 position in the NHL. He's only 24! Goalies take longer to mature. He's the first goaltender the Jets organization has taken the time and money to develop. Why in the world would we dump him now?

Also, anyone who takes exception to him applying for arbitration is not fully understanding what that's all about. There should be no offense taken.

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07-06-2017, 07:51 PM
  #45
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Wow, people willing to dump Helle already? He has a pretty good pedigree and his main issue last year was inconsistency. Obviously not ready to take on the #1 position in the NHL. He's only 24! Goalies take longer to mature. He's the first goaltender the Jets organization has taken the time and money to develop. Why in the world would we dump him now?

Also, anyone who takes exception to him applying for arbitration is not fully understanding what that's all about. There should be no offense taken.
Pay him 2 years on save%
903k per
An incentive to get better 😉

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07-06-2017, 07:53 PM
  #46
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not surprised by the arbitration.. player thinks he is worth more (i tend to agree) and organization is probably trying to save some coin due to the weak season from before.

Good for helly sticking up for himself. I see this as both sides respecting each other

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07-06-2017, 08:06 PM
  #47
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07-06-2017, 08:06 PM
  #48
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07-06-2017, 08:51 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ippenator View Post
Ok, maybe you guys are right and I need to hold my horses at the moment. But I really hope that this arbitration doesn't lead into anything ugly for the team spirit. And also I seriously hope that he does not get a substantial raise as the result. And if he does, I really hope that if he is not traded during the starting season, that he will really be a lot lot better than he has been so far. The truth is that just one really reliable goalie is not enough to be a real contender nowadays. I would just hate to see the Jets waste several years with struggling with an only average Hellebuyck being the backup for Mason.
Hellbuyck's numbers were pretty sabatoged by the hole that Hutchinson created. During our worst stretch Mo left Helle in for a long stretch with some fairly poor results. It was clear he needed a break and until they finally pulled the Pav's parachute he didn't get one.

He was .945 in the games that he won.
His numbers trended up a bit after that break.
They were good at the end but that was during the streak.

All Helle has to do is be better then Hutch last year.
If he really does well and pushes Mason for the top spot then awesome.
That's a good problem to have.

I'm not sure where were getting a reliable goalie from now.
A ton of goalies just switched addresses.
There likely aren't any of the caliber you envision available for a price that would could stomach.

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07-06-2017, 08:56 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhamnov5GoalGame View Post
Hellbuyck's numbers were pretty sabatoged by the hole that Hutchinson created. During our worst stretch Mo left Helle in for a long stretch with some fairly poor results. It was clear he needed a break and until they finally pulled the Pav's parachute he didn't get one.

He was .945 in the games that he won.
His numbers trended up a bit after that break.
They were good at the end but that was during the streak.

All Helle has to do is be better then Hutch last year.
If he really does well and pushes Mason for the top spot then awesome.
That's a good problem to have.

I'm not sure where were getting a reliable goalie from now.
A ton of goalies just switched addresses.
There likely aren't any of the caliber you envision available for a price that would could stomach.
I would imagine that most goalies would have a great save % in games they won and a terrible save % in games they lost. I'm not sure why you think that's relevant.

Anyways, not expecting a big salary here at any rate given his numbers so this process is a big whatever to me.

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