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RFA Negotiations: Tatar & AA

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Old
07-09-2017, 11:53 AM
  #51
Henkka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
In that article, Tatar says he's gotten multiple offers from DRW (1 year, 4 years, 5 years) and that both term AND money are being discussed. He says there's no rush.
He ends with saying that IF he goes to arbitration, he'll get a one year contract and that it would likely be his last season in Detroit.
IF IF IF...

There's absolutely no need to say that last thing in any interview. 1-year deal means UFA and leaving Detroit. No desire to sign an extension as UFA.

So it's an obvious threat on the negotiations, when he goes to speculate with that.

At least he raised the probability of being the 1st candidate trade bait at the next deadline, if he takes 1-year deal from arbitrator.

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07-09-2017, 12:15 PM
  #52
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Holland Response to Tats claims it will be his last season in Detroit if he goes to arbitration.

https://theathletic.com/74183/2017/0...re-in-detroit/

Quote:
"I don't have any comment other than I've talked to Ritch Winter a number of times," Holland said. "If that's the way Tats feels, that's the way Tats feels."
Quote:
"The player has to make a good deal or the club has to make a fair deal," Holland said. "If you can't get a fair deal done, you have to go through the process."
In other words, Tatar isn't getting that cushy long term deal .
I think he had too much fun and his party persona will very heavily weigh on the negqtiations... given the mindset of our front office.

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07-09-2017, 12:53 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Holland Response to Tats claims it will be his last season in Detroit if he goes to arbitration.

https://theathletic.com/74183/2017/0...re-in-detroit/


In other words, Tatar isn't getting that cushy long term deal .
I think he had too much fun and his party persona will very heavily weigh on the negqtiations... given the mindset of our front office.
You really believe that Tats is a big time party boy who brought little to the team? I think his biggest problem is that he's neither Swedish nor born in Michigan.

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07-09-2017, 01:05 PM
  #54
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Shocking that a guy in his mid 20s wants to have fun.

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07-09-2017, 01:06 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Yep. This is what we need more in here. Positive thinking.

Tatar leaving would be bad, but there's always also positives on this kind of moves.
In that they'd lose one of their best goalscorers and suck more, so potentially higher draft pick?

Am I doing it right?

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07-09-2017, 01:08 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You really believe that Tats is a big time party boy who brought little to the team? I think his biggest problem is that he's neither Swedish nor born in Michigan.
He's bringing things to the team, but this team is putting way too much money into the wings. I wouldn't care nearly as much if we didn't just put a ton of ****ing money into Abdelkader and Helm.

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07-09-2017, 01:08 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld View Post
In that they'd lose one of their best goalscorers and suck more, so potentially higher draft pick?

Am I doing it right?

I think Holland fired Dave Lewis saying that the Wings weren't some country club. Well, I guess things changed.

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07-09-2017, 01:09 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Holland Response to Tats claims it will be his last season in Detroit if he goes to arbitration.

https://theathletic.com/74183/2017/0...re-in-detroit/




In other words, Tatar isn't getting that cushy long term deal .
I think he had too much fun and his party persona will very heavily weigh on the negqtiations... given the mindset of our front office.
Holland has ZERO ability to identify, evaluate and commit to young talent

he likely has the WORST such ability in the NHL

do not take anything holland or the organization says with any sort of merit, it has none, zero, ziltch

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07-09-2017, 01:11 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
He's bringing things to the team, but this team is putting way too much money into the wings. I wouldn't care nearly as much if we didn't just put a ton of ****ing money into Abdelkader and Helm.
Ericsson is seriously overpaid too. Dekeyser is overpaid. Howard was never a $5MM per year goalie. Like I said earlier, I pull up the cap figures and cannot understand how the Wings spent more than any other team and end up in last place.

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07-09-2017, 01:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Ericsson is seriously overpaid too. Dekeyser is overpaid. Howard was never a $5MM per year goalie. Like I said earlier, I pull up the cap figures and cannot understand how the Wings spent more than any other team and end up in last place.
I can, Ken Holland isn't a good GM for a rebuilding team. Put him on a perennial contender and he's great again.

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07-09-2017, 01:22 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Tatar is not a 5.5 million dollar player. I would be happy to move on at that point.

I was not real happy about 5 to be honest, but I understood that is where it could be. He doesn't bring enough to the table to be up there.

On Sheahan he is going to have to earn his way up the lineup again as far as I am concerned. I agree it was a very strange year and I doubt it happens like that again. But still they talk a lot about earning things around here, he needs to work his way up the lineup as far as I am concerned.
He's not, but he's also not far down that list of goal scoring left wings the past few years. We all know that scoring on the ice means scoring on your contract (well, unless you're a 30-something Euro with a bad rep). I wouldn't have a problem with $5.5m if, as Heaton said, we didn't already have Gator and, to a lesser extent, Helm.

Sheahan didn't do much to earn the spot last year, but I'm not sure I see Gator as being more deserving. If we're plugging a vet into that spot, I think Helm looked the best, though I don't really want him there, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
He's bringing things to the team, but this team is putting way too much money into the wings. I wouldn't care nearly as much if we didn't just put a ton of ****ing money into Abdelkader and Helm.
We should be trying to retain 20-30% of their salaries to facilitate a deal for one of them. I doubt there's a taker now but as the season goes on, some injuries hit someone...it's a move that we know Holland won't even consider.

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Old
07-09-2017, 01:38 PM
  #62
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Top 6 goal scorer that's 26 averaging 25 goals per over 3 seasons generally deserves 5.5 AAV. Specifically on a team that struggles to score and has a **** poor PP. That contract like mentioned above is not an issue. The Helm and Abdelkader contract are issues.

Losing Mrazek and Tatar this season is definitely a step in the wrong direction. These aren't the guys that should be moving.

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Old
07-09-2017, 01:45 PM
  #63
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Silly Tatar thinking he's a good ol' Michigan boy.

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07-09-2017, 01:48 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Ericsson is seriously overpaid too. Dekeyser is overpaid. Howard was never a $5MM per year goalie. Like I said earlier, I pull up the cap figures and cannot understand how the Wings spent more than any other team and end up in last place.
this is underrating Howard quite a bit

maybe it was a bad idea to give him the term he got considering he's a Goalie and also had a history of underperforming in his contract years which wasn't a great mental sign(he had bad years both times he was up for a contract)

but to say he never deserved $5 million(a middle of the pack Goalie cap hit when he signed his contract) is just flat out wrong

he has been very good at his best

if you look at the two year period from 2011-2013 he had THE highest even strength save percentage(a much better indicator of future performance than overall save percentage) among Goalies with 1000+ minutes played

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...t&sortdir=DESC

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07-09-2017, 01:51 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Stick View Post
Losing Mrazek and Tatar this season is definitely a step in the wrong direction. These aren't the guys that should be moving.
If we want to aim for the top picks, they absolutely are two of the first that should go.

People are overreacting though, Tatar will be signed.

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07-09-2017, 02:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
this is underrating Howard quite a bit

maybe it was a bad idea to give him the term he got considering he's a Goalie and also had a history of underperforming in his contract years which wasn't a great mental sign(he had bad years both times he was up for a contract)

but to say he never deserved $5 million(a middle of the pack Goalie cap hit when he signed his contract) is just flat out wrong
Howard was statistically 7th best NHL goalie (with 4-season data) on the time of his contract extension.

And signed a contract valued outside of the TOP10 earning goalies.

It was a good deal on that certain time. Injuries changed the fate. AFTERWARDS.

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07-09-2017, 02:12 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
If we want to aim for the top picks, they absolutely are two of the first that should go.

People are overreacting though, Tatar will be signed.
Trading away good, less expensive young players in favour of worse, more expensive old players is how you rebuild in today's NHL?

Is that what your saying here?

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Old
07-09-2017, 02:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld View Post
In that they'd lose one of their best goalscorers and suck more, so potentially higher draft pick?

Am I doing it right?
Yeah, higher overall draft positions and probably futures from a trade.

Guy has a lot of value.

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Old
07-09-2017, 02:16 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Yeah, higher overall draft positions and probably futures from a trade.

Guy has a lot of value.
He has value until value unless he signs a contract he can't live up to, which is what he wants to sign. So if he signs a 1 year 6m contract, he has value, if he signs a 5 years, 30m contract? He has no value.

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07-09-2017, 02:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Trading away good, less expensive young players in favour of worse, more expensive old players is how you rebuild in today's NHL?

Is that what your saying here?
Tatar is too consistant at 20+ goals, would bring a good return, and is not part of a leadership group. Mrazek can stand on his head and carry a team. These are the type of guys that can get us into the playoffs. Simply getting rid of Kronwall/E/Abby/etc doesn't move the needle enough if we wanted to guarantee a top 5 pick. Good pieces in a rebuild, not so good for a more scorched earth approach where you're hunting top 3-5 picks.

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07-09-2017, 03:04 PM
  #71
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If you were going to start playing hardball with expiring UFA's you should have done that with Abdelkader and Helm, not a skilled scoring line guy...

But I forgot... Abby is from Michigan, and Holland is besties with Helm and his fiancÚ.

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Old
07-09-2017, 03:15 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
Tatar is too consistant at 20+ goals, would bring a good return, and is not part of a leadership group. Mrazek can stand on his head and carry a team. These are the type of guys that can get us into the playoffs. Simply getting rid of Kronwall/E/Abby/etc doesn't move the needle enough if we wanted to guarantee a top 5 pick. Good pieces in a rebuild, not so good for a more scorched earth approach where you're hunting top 3-5 picks.
Wait now your advocating a scorched earth rebuild?

But No, Tatar and mrazek alone are not good enough to get this team into the playoffs last year, this year or next year

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Old
07-09-2017, 03:19 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
If you were going to start playing hardball with expiring UFA's you should have done that with Abdelkader and Helm, not a skilled scoring line guy...

But I forgot... Abby is from Michigan, and Holland is besties with Helm and his fianc├ę.
Don't forget that Gator and Helm help preserve that winning culture...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Howard was statistically 7th best NHL goalie (with 4-season data) on the time of his contract extension.

And signed a contract valued outside of the TOP10 earning goalies.

It was a good deal on that certain time. Injuries changed the fate. AFTERWARDS.
Eh, I've defended the Howard deal in the past, but how good of a deal it was depends quite a bit on how far of a gap you believe exists between the 7th best goalie and the 15th (or even 20th, or further down the list). If we could get a goalie reasonably close in quality while saving $2-3 million per season on the contract, it would arguably be better for the club to have a modestly worse goalie in exchange for more money to spend elsewhere.

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Old
07-09-2017, 03:21 PM
  #74
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It is worth pointing out here that Tatar played like crap until we were actually eliminated and he got to play with Zetterberg. There is a reason the super friends keep pointing that out in the articles, that the organization isn't pumped about him being a 13 goal scorer through February when the games actually mattered. I know the whole team played bad, but I think that is a part of his negotiations and as a fan of the team more than individual players it probably should be. I think Custance does a good job here of getting at where Tatar still has substantial bargaining power. It is really nice to have somebody legitimately covering this team, asking questions and writing articles that aren't just pure organizational speech.

I think it is fine for him to request what he wants, go for it. It was inadvisable to tack on the last comment. He knows it.

This just in guys, talking to the Czech and Slovakian press does make its way back to Detroit. For the record it does with Sweden too, it is why Jarnkrok is in Nashville. Now again maybe this is what Tatar actually wants. We will see, I will care more about us getting the correct asset if he is leaving than whether or not he stays. That is what I care about, if they get the deal done fine, Tats is a good hockey player but he isn't a game changer we have figured that out at this point. What we need is a long-term plan with him one way or another that is really all I care about.


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Old
07-09-2017, 03:31 PM
  #75
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Offers **** long term contracts left and right to bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing Dmen; won't pay up to keep the team's top goal scorer. Ken Holland ladies and gentlemen...

Tatar should have played the long con and knocked up some woman who grew up around Holland

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