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Old
07-14-2017, 10:47 AM
  #101
Habs 4 Life
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Originally Posted by BrimStone64 View Post
Friedman was on 590 last night, said he believes Habs are still out there trying to make the big trade for offensive star. Probably explains why Markov hasn't re-signed. Habs may need the caproom.
Well it makes sense

Some will not agree but at the end of the day offensively, we replaced Radulov with Drouin

I like Drouin a lot more, but how much more production can he give us compared to Radu? Even if he gets an extra 5-10 pts it's not enough to compete against some of the other teams, we're still missing a top centerman that is not Plekanec or Danault

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Old
07-14-2017, 11:01 AM
  #102
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Friedman was then asked about Kessel and the Montreal Canadiens, a team starved for offense, with the caveats that the team might not want to add another big contract and also that that market might not be the right fit.

I m not sure that s the best fit, agreed Friedman. But I do think that Marc Bergevin is still looking to, he s still at the plate taking one of those Edwin Encarnacion-size swings, waiting to connect on something.

One quick note on the Bergevin front: Karl Alzner mentioned in passing this week that the Canadiens have their eye on a couple of pieces that are going to help the team.
https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/fri...ulation-merit/

Friedman speculating. Maybe that $9M cap room is being ticketed for offence.

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Old
07-14-2017, 11:31 AM
  #103
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Gallagher and Byron for RNH...


Galchenyuk-RNH-Drouin
MaxPac-Danault-Lehkonen
Shaw-Pleky-Hemsky
Hudon-Mitchell-Holland
Martinsen

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Old
07-14-2017, 12:33 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Been reading about escrow and how the players using the cap escalator is driving that up. The NHL did a really good job of protecting their bottom dollar while putting the burden on the players.

Considering the cap ceiling is already 15% higher than the actual 50-50 split, this almost always ensures that the owners will be the ones benefiting from escrow. On top of that 15%, you have the players who can elect to us their cap escalator (5% max), we are talking about a lot of money coming off the players salaries.

Just an quick example for anyone that wants to get a bit more info on how this works.

Let's say the NHL decides before the 17-18 off season that started in June 17, that the league was to make $6B (round numbers make it easier to follow), it would mean that the NHL owners would take $3B and the players will split $3B.

Now you take the $3B and divide by 30 (again for simplicity, let's ignore that the league has 31 teams), which means the midpoint of the cap is $100M

Now that the midpoint is $100M, teams will have a cap floor of $85M and a cap ceiling of $115M.

So if we look at it like every team spends to the cap, the players are pocketing $3.45B? No they are not.

Because of escrow, the players will actually need to put 450/3000=15% of their salary into escrow.

So for instance Price is to make $10.5M but because of escrow, he gives the NHL back $1.575M which leaves him with $8.925M

So for the players who want to use the cap escalator, it may not be beneficial to the majority, but to the minority. This may be the cause for the next lockout.
You're overthinking the whole thing. The players/owners get a 50/50 hard split of revenue. The cap is set at estimated number (they have a natural 5% increase built in ) and at the end of the year thy tally up all the revenues and any shortcoming is taken out of the escrow fund. It doesn't matter what the cap estimate is, it's only purpose is so that teams know how much cap space they have in a given year.

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Old
07-14-2017, 12:47 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weber Fan View Post
Gallagher and Byron for RNH...


Galchenyuk-RNH-Drouin
MaxPac-Danault-Lehkonen
Shaw-Pleky-Hemsky
Hudon-Mitchell-Holland
Martinsen
Not adding Byron on top of Gallagher to get RNH...

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Old
07-14-2017, 12:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Weber Fan View Post
Gallagher and Byron for RNH...

Galchenyuk-RNH-Drouin
MaxPac-Danault-Lehkonen
Shaw-Pleky-Hemsky
Hudon-Mitchell-Holland
Martinsen
Ugh, that's what I'm afraid will happen.

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Old
07-14-2017, 12:54 PM
  #107
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Oilers are not trading RNH this year IMO, they have 16M in cap space and only Draisaitl to sign.

They might move him next year when McDavid's contract kicks in.

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Old
07-14-2017, 01:41 PM
  #108
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Can anybody tell me about Bjugstad ?

I don't know much about him, but he seems to be limited in ice time since Trocheck and Barkov are there.

Byron+ for him maybe ?

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:18 PM
  #109
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Bozak for 1 year at 4.2 million could be a good fit,Toronto wants d-men maybe Davidson other than that who has Montreal got to trade,cannot trade your young D.

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:25 PM
  #110
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What about Duchene ?

I'd rather get him than any others C names in this thread.

And it seems that Kessell is on the tade block too

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:27 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Victorius View Post
What about Duchene ?

I'd rather get him than any others C names in this thread.

And it seems that Kessell is on the tade block too
We can't afford the price tag on Duchene anymore....need to move on to other options

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:28 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Been reading about escrow and how the players using the cap escalator is driving that up. The NHL did a really good job of protecting their bottom dollar while putting the burden on the players.

Considering the cap ceiling is already 15% higher than the actual 50-50 split, this almost always ensures that the owners will be the ones benefiting from escrow. On top of that 15%, you have the players who can elect to us their cap escalator (5% max), we are talking about a lot of money coming off the players salaries.

Just an quick example for anyone that wants to get a bit more info on how this works.

Let's say the NHL decides before the 17-18 off season that started in June 17, that the league was to make $6B (round numbers make it easier to follow), it would mean that the NHL owners would take $3B and the players will split $3B.

Now you take the $3B and divide by 30 (again for simplicity, let's ignore that the league has 31 teams), which means the midpoint of the cap is $100M

Now that the midpoint is $100M, teams will have a cap floor of $85M and a cap ceiling of $115M.

So if we look at it like every team spends to the cap, the players are pocketing $3.45B? No they are not.

Because of escrow, the players will actually need to put 450/3000=15% of their salary into escrow.

So for instance Price is to make $10.5M but because of escrow, he gives the NHL back $1.575M which leaves him with $8.925M

So for the players who want to use the cap escalator, it may not be beneficial to the majority, but to the minority. This may be the cause for the next lockout.
Yes but don't forget that if the forecasted revenues for that season are met, the players get reimbursed 100% of the money they put into escrow.

It's basically money in trust in the event that HRR doesn't reach it's forecast.

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:33 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by HowDoIwater View Post
Can anybody tell me about Bjugstad ?

I don't know much about him, but he seems to be limited in ice time since Trocheck and Barkov are there.

Byron+ for him maybe ?
Would love Bjugstad...great buy-low candidate IMO

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:33 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Deebs View Post
We can't afford the price tag on Duchene anymore....need to move on to other options
What is that price-tag ? Too high I guess because no deal has been done so far. Sakic will have to cut a bit on his demands.

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:35 PM
  #115
The Great Pateryn
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Originally Posted by Victorius View Post
What is that price-tag ? Too high I guess because no deal has been done so far. Sakic will have to cut a bit on his demands.
They want defensemen and we don't have any that they like.

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:37 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booky View Post
Yes but don't forget that if the forecasted revenues for that season are met, the players get reimbursed 100% of the money they put into escrow.

It's basically money in trust in the event that HRR doesn't reach it's forecast.
That's not entirely true. The shared 50/50 is on 15% less then the cap ceiling, so depending on the entire NHLs spending, even if the PHRR is achieved, the players will lose money to escrow.

Like I said, if they share 6B, the cap ceiling is 115M, but the 30 teams are sharing only 100M.

The example was just to showcase what escrow looks like, it wasn't an actual real example. However from what I'm reading, this may be a root cause for another lockout

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:52 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Would love Bjugstad...great buy-low candidate IMO
What do you guys think he might cost and what does he project as at his peak?

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:00 PM
  #118
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What do you guys think he might cost and what does he project as at his peak?
At the moment, he's probably a Handzus. Maybe a Nik Antropov as ceiling? Cost would probably be a prospect like Lindgren + a Gallagher?

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:03 PM
  #119
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At the moment, he's probably a Handzus. Maybe a Nik Antropov as ceiling? Cost would probably be a prospect like Lindgren + a Gallagher?
I like Gallagher but I would make that deal. Bjugstad is only 25, has 5 years NHL experience. So, can we safely say he should at least be a 2nd line C on most teams, borderline top line C? On the Habs he'd be a no. 1C by default.

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:23 PM
  #120
CrAzYNiNe
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
You're overthinking the whole thing. The players/owners get a 50/50 hard split of revenue. The cap is set at estimated number (they have a natural 5% increase built in ) and at the end of the year thy tally up all the revenues and any shortcoming is taken out of the escrow fund. It doesn't matter what the cap estimate is, it's only purpose is so that teams know how much cap space they have in a given year.
How am I overthinking the whole thing? Has the NHL ever released their HRR? I have never once read or found any evidence that the NHL is releasing these numbers.

We have this article on TSN.ca that discusses how the cap may not have gone up because the NHL decided not to increase the PHRR and the players did not want to use their "escalator" which is essentially putting more money into escrow without any forecaster money being generating into the HRR.

In this article on sportsnet.ca it says the players used their escalator.

Let's do some Math, everything restarted after the lastest CBA signed in January 2013.
2013-2014 --> From 60M to 64.3M. I found nothing about the use of the 5% escalator, so this appears to be an increased generated by PHRR
2014-2015 --> From 64.3M to 69M This increase seems to have been generated by the Rogers TV deal. I see no mention of the NHLPA or owners wanting the use the escalator. Players lost 10% to escrow in 2013-2014.
2015-2016 --> From 69M to 71.4M which is an increase of 2.24%, which I believe indicates that HRR dropped (If the escalator is 5% or nothing)
2016-2017 --> From 71.4M to 73M which is an increase of 2.24%, players use the escalator. Same thing as the year before?
2017-2018 --> From 73M to 75M which is an increase of 2.74%, players use the escalator. Same thing as the year before?

From all accounts I read, I have no seen once that HRR is going up, or even that the NHL is going to forecast their PHRR as higher. The burden this whole time has been on the players.

On top of this, the cap ceiling is in fact "escrow territory". Without having information of what the NHL's HRR is, the 31 NHL teams are sharing 63.75M each, not 75M.

This means that if the NHL does not generate USD3.9525B, the players are paying significant escrow on their paychecks.

Using capfriendly, salaries of current players signed to rosters is USD2.022B. This is over USD1.97625B, half of the fake HRR I calculated above. This means every NHL player is paying 9.77% escrow out the gate, and this doesn't take into account that the previous 3 years the NHL has not projected higher revenues, therefore that 9.77% may even be 15-20%.

Overthinking? maybe. But prove me wrong.

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by KawaYui View Post
Not adding Byron on top of Gallagher to get RNH...
I don't want to trade Gallagher at all for RNH.

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:52 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
You're overthinking the whole thing. The players/owners get a 50/50 hard split of revenue. The cap is set at estimated number (they have a natural 5% increase built in ) and at the end of the year thy tally up all the revenues and any shortcoming is taken out of the escrow fund. It doesn't matter what the cap estimate is, it's only purpose is so that teams know how much cap space they have in a given year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booky View Post
Yes but don't forget that if the forecasted revenues for that season are met, the players get reimbursed 100% of the money they put into escrow.

It's basically money in trust in the event that HRR doesn't reach it's forecast.
You both might want to read this.

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Old
07-14-2017, 04:05 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
I like Gallagher but I would make that deal. Bjugstad is only 25, has 5 years NHL experience. So, can we safely say he should at least be a 2nd line C on most teams, borderline top line C? On the Habs he'd be a no. 1C by default.
Is this as a back-up since you can't try Flynn at 1C anymore? Bjugstad makes 4.1 and scored 14 points last year. Trading Gallagher for him would be absolutely asinine. There is no world in which Bjugstad is a better bet at 1C than Galchenyuk.

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Old
07-14-2017, 04:53 PM
  #124
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Yeah if I'm trading Gallagher, it's for Trocheck, not Bjugstad.

For Bjugstad I'd be giving Davidson + prospect.

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Old
07-14-2017, 05:14 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yeah if I'm trading Gallagher, it's for Trocheck, not Bjugstad.

For Bjugstad I'd be giving Davidson + prospect.
So that 24 goal season from 2014-15, was that an anomaly?

Davidson is a 7th D and we have no prospects of interest to trade.


Last edited by Le Tricolore: 07-16-2017 at 09:00 AM. Reason: stop.
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