HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Flaherty and Huddy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-12-2017, 11:32 AM
  #1
Fishy Jets Fan
Registered User
 
Fishy Jets Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Guess
Country: Canada
Posts: 141
vCash: 500
Flaherty and Huddy

See a lot of hate on for Maurice, but not much for these two. Why the devotion from this organization?

Fishy Jets Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:36 AM
  #2
Sabadecade
Die Hard Jets Fan
 
Sabadecade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 447
vCash: 500
I see hate for all of them equally, from fans.

And I personally haven't noticed any hate at all from the organization for any of them.

Sabadecade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:42 AM
  #3
Fishy Jets Fan
Registered User
 
Fishy Jets Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Guess
Country: Canada
Posts: 141
vCash: 500
I can not fathom why these two still have jobs here. Defence and tending have been consistent problems imo. I would rather see them go over Maurice.

Fishy Jets Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:46 AM
  #4
Gm0ney
Unicorns salient
 
Gm0ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,831
vCash: 500
Yeah it's unbelievable that those two still have a job. Whoever's in charge of the PK should be canned too.

Gm0ney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:49 AM
  #5
nobody important
Won'tGetFooledAgain
 
nobody important's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: a quiet suburb
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Jets Fan View Post
I can not fathom why these two still have jobs here. Defence and tending have been consistent problems imo. I would rather see them go over Maurice.
No playoffs this year, the house will be scrubbed from attic to basement. Could use a little air freshener too, get rid of that dead bird smell.

nobody important is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:52 AM
  #6
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,715
vCash: 300
I doubt anyone here has any idea of how good or bad Flaherty is. Or even Huddy for that matter. Garbage in garbage out.

So Flaherty never turned Pav into a Vezina candidate and Huddy never turned Stuart into a Norris trophy winner.

I didn't expect those things.

Most of these gripes have their basis in lack of talent. Should be Chevy's responsibility not assistant coaches.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:06 PM
  #7
Daximus
Aces Charles
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Five Hills
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,623
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I doubt anyone here has any idea of how good or bad Flaherty is. Or even Huddy for that matter. Garbage in garbage out.

So Flaherty never turned Pav into a Vezina candidate and Huddy never turned Stuart into a Norris trophy winner.

I didn't expect those things.

Most of these gripes have their basis in lack of talent. Should be Chevy's responsibility not assistant coaches.
I think Flaherty is just a bad goalie coach. No one ever improves under him. All you want is improvement. They don't have to be Vezina candidates they just have to be getting better. Bring in someone that can actually develop young talent because Flaherty looks like garbage so far.

Daximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:10 PM
  #8
Yukon Joe
Registered User
 
Yukon Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: YWG -> YXY -> YEG
Posts: 2,557
vCash: 500
Quite frankly I don't think we have any idea what is involved in being an assistant coach, or a goalie coach. I don't think any of us are qualified to say whether an assistant coach is qualified or not.

Head coach - sure. Ultimately a head coach can and should be judged by wins and losses, so I think it's fair game for fans to call out the head coach. But the assistants?

Yukon Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:10 PM
  #9
Hank Chinaski
Global Moderator
\_(ツ)_/
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: YWG
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,499
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I doubt anyone here has any idea of how good or bad Flaherty is. Or even Huddy for that matter. Garbage in garbage out.
Guess it depends how we're measuring good.

Good results? Nope. Good at explaining strategy and technique? Maybe, but that's an extremely interchangeable skill; it's hockey, not particle physics. Good rapport with players? Not sure what good that has done.

Talented people lose their jobs all the time for the inefficiencies of others. It's a tough business managing people.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 07-12-2017 at 12:16 PM.
Hank Chinaski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:15 PM
  #10
10Ducky10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,574
vCash: 500
What exactly are their responsibilities?

10Ducky10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:38 PM
  #11
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,810
vCash: 500
I can get behind trying someone in place of Wade because as others have stated there has been little in the way of positive individual growth at the NHL level be any of our goalies there save perhaps Montoya. As suchbi think it's reasonable to to try someone else to see if they can get better results

I am far less sure on Huddy as I feel he gets flack for things that are likely out of his control. For instance he's blamed for the goals against but team defense is about far more than just how the defenseman play as well as he has no control over goaltending. I am not sure how involved he is on setting the teams defensive zone systems but I would think final call on those rests with Maurice.

If his role is on coaching and development than its hard to argue against the growth of individual players under him.

Trouba has blossomed into an elite dmen under him.
Morrissey developed nicely last year under his watch.
Myers rebounded and was progressing nicely under him prior to his injury
Buff although more polarizing has had a couple of truly elite years under him

Perhaps the best case study though is Bogo. When we got the team he was looking close to a bust but under Huddy rebounded and progressed to the point where he earned that large contract he signed. Since moving to Buffalo he has reverted to being a bad dmen again. So it looks like Bogo easily performed the best hockey of his career under Huddy.

So I guess with regards to Huddy it depends what his role is. Some of his usage decisions and bench management have been questionable but it's hard to argue against the individual development that has occured ubder him.

surixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:38 PM
  #12
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,715
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
I think Flaherty is just a bad goalie coach. No one ever improves under him. All you want is improvement. They don't have to be Vezina candidates they just have to be getting better. Bring in someone that can actually develop young talent because Flaherty looks like garbage so far.
You put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

My point is very few people here know anything about being a goaltending coach. They are unqualified to make an accurate informed assessment.

People have strong opinions on this issue. But perhaps there was nothing there to improve?

I am neither positive or negative. I just don't see what people are basing this on other than the fact he got stuck with Pavelec for his entire tenure here.

Tell me what he could have done differently?

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:47 PM
  #13
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,048
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
You put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

My point is very few people here know anything about being a goaltending coach. They are unqualified to make an accurate informed assessment.

People have strong opinions on this issue. But perhaps there was nothing there to improve?

I am neither positive or negative. I just don't see what people are basing this on other than the fact he got stuck with Pavelec for his entire tenure here.

Tell me what he could have done differently?
Make Pav better.
Kept Hutch as good as he was when he arrived.
Kept Helle as good as he was when he arrived.

What exactly has he accomplished?

If his impact is negative get rid of him.
If his impact is merely neutral then why have him?
6 years with no positive impact is reason enough for a change.


Last edited by Mortimer Snerd: 07-12-2017 at 12:53 PM.
Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:48 PM
  #14
antiqueslivers
Registered User
 
antiqueslivers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 601
vCash: 500
None of our goalies have seemed to progress under the tutelage of flaherty... if anything they seem to regress. Without knowing flaherty personally or the goalies aren't we restricted to judging these coaches on outcomes? No need to win vezinas just show some kind of improvement.

Same goes for huddy and the D. As a spectator I've watched our defense get lost and not adhere to systems... other then the players is it not the defensive coach who is responsible to make sure their players understand the systems and how to execute?

at some point the coaching staff has to be held accountable for the poor performance. Maurice being responsible for his assistants and players as well is just a culpable.

hopefully I'm totally off base and maurice and his supporting cast proves myself and others wrong.

antiqueslivers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 12:59 PM
  #15
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,715
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Make Pav better.
Kept Hutch as good as he was when he arrived.
Kept Helle as good as he was when he arrived.

What exactly has he accomplished?

If his impact is negative get rid of him.
If his impact is merely neutral then why have him?
6 years with no positive impact is reason enough for a change.
Pay sucks. Nobody was making him better IMO.

BTW most goalie technique adjustments happen on the offseason. Flaherty is prohibited by the CBA to have organized on ice sessions with players.

So you think he should make Pav better (change technique) mid season?

I think you overestimate what a goalie whisperer is capable of

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:03 PM
  #16
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,048
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Pay sucks. Nobody was making him better IMO.

BTW most goalie technique adjustments happen on the offseason. Flaherty is prohibited by the CBA to have organized on ice sessions with players.

So you think he should make Pav better (change technique) mid season?
You asked.

I repeat:
What exactly has he accomplished?

If his impact is negative get rid of him.
If his impact is merely neutral then why have him?
6 years with no positive impact is reason enough for a change.

When what you are doing isn't benefiting you - change what you are doing.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:05 PM
  #17
Daximus
Aces Charles
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Five Hills
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,623
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
You put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

My point is very few people here know anything about being a goaltending coach. They are unqualified to make an accurate informed assessment.

People have strong opinions on this issue. But perhaps there was nothing there to improve?

I am neither positive or negative. I just don't see what people are basing this on other than the fact he got stuck with Pavelec for his entire tenure here.

Tell me what he could have done differently?
The thing is its not just Pavs. Pavs, Hutch, Helle, Budaj, Montoya. None of them have improved under him. At some point you have to wonder if its your developement coach or if its the goalies. Cant hurt the team in any way to replace him. So why the heck not just do it?

Daximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:14 PM
  #18
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,715
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
You asked.

I repeat:
What exactly has he accomplished?

If his impact is negative get rid of him.
If his impact is merely neutral then why have him?
6 years with no positive impact is reason enough for a change.

When what you are doing isn't benefiting you - change what you are doing.
You are not qualified to assess and neither am I. Who would you replace him with?

IMO if the Jets had Carey Price, Flaherty would be considered a genius. Talent in talent out.

I'm not arguing he's a great coach. All I'm saying here is 99.9% of posters here including you have no idea one way or the other

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:18 PM
  #19
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 10,008
vCash: 500




Goalie coaching isn't going to stop the above.

But, in regards to Flaherty, the NHL is a results oriented business and we are not seeing the results. So which is it?

- every goalie the Jets have had are just plain bad and the coaching can't make them better and makes no difference.

- Our goalies are better because Flaherty is coaching them

- Our goalies are worse because Flaherty is coaching them

I want a goalie coach change because of the fact that we don't know if Flaherty is good at his job. All we have seen for 6 seasons is varying levels of suck-age with some moments of promise. Is it because the coaching is bad or the goalies are bad? We can keep trying to replace the goalies, and we have seen how slow Chevy is to do that, which just leads to more years of frustration OR we can try the easy solution and change the coach. If changing the coach results in better goaltending, then great, other than we should have made this change sooner. If changing the goalie coach does nothing, then we need to find some scouts that can actually evaluate goaltending talent.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:19 PM
  #20
Daximus
Aces Charles
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Five Hills
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,623
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
You are not qualified to assess and neither am I. Who would you replace him with?

IMO if the Jets had Carey Price, Flaherty would be considered a genius. Talent in talent out.

I'm not arguing he's a great coach. All I'm saying here is 99.9% of posters here including you have no idea one way or the other
All we know is he doesn't have a positive impact on our goaltending. So boot him out the door. You're right though if we had Price he'd look great. When things aren't going well for quite some time it's time for a change until it they do.

Daximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:23 PM
  #21
Fishy Jets Fan
Registered User
 
Fishy Jets Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Guess
Country: Canada
Posts: 141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
The thing is its not just Pavs. Pavs, Hutch, Helle, Budaj, Montoya. None of them have improved under him. At some point you have to wonder if its your developement coach or if its the goalies. Cant hurt the team in any way to replace him. So why the heck not just do it?
What we don't know also is how much Flaherty has been listened too...wouldn't / shouldn't he have advised management (Chevy) how garbage Pavs was before he signed him to the extension? Realistic ceiling of Hutch? What would happen if he rode Helle too hard? How he shouldn't have let Montoya walk (although Montoya may have run regardless)? If he did advise and Chev/PoMo still did these things, it's on them...but would indicate that they didn't trust his opinion, so he should still be gone!

Fishy Jets Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:24 PM
  #22
uTurris
We the True North
 
uTurris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,089
vCash: 500
Keep our fingers crossed the Hawks fire Quenneville and the Jets pick him up.

uTurris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:28 PM
  #23
51
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Country: Canada
Posts: 527
vCash: 500
Hutch and Helle completely changed style after some time with the Jets. To my untrained eye. They both looked really good at first and devolved into Pavelec flopping. To my eye...

51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:32 PM
  #24
antiqueslivers
Registered User
 
antiqueslivers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by uTurris View Post
Keep our fingers crossed the Hawks fire Quenneville and the Jets pick him up.
gaawd, could you imagine!

antiqueslivers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 01:34 PM
  #25
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 View Post
Hutch and Helle completely changed style after some time with the Jets. To my untrained eye. They both looked really good at first and devolved into Pavelec flopping. To my eye...
I also noticed that. I think good goalie coaches refine and tweak things in season but we saw Helle undertake fundamental technique alterations with incorporating the reverse VH and his glove position.

surixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.