HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Flaherty and Huddy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-12-2017, 06:17 PM
  #51
Daximus
Aces Charles
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Five Hills
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,623
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Change for the sake of change might have some merit. And it wouldn't bother me one bit if it happened.

What bothers me is all the "experts" around here that seem to think our goaltending issues will be suddenly solved by firing Flaherty.
I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert. And it doesn't take one to know what goalie coaches do. We are simply advocating for change with the lack of results something that other teams seem less afraid to do.

Daximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 06:25 PM
  #52
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,719
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert. And it doesn't take one to know what goalie coaches do. We are simply advocating for change with the lack of results something that other teams seem less afraid to do.
I think it's a form of venting frustrations. An easy target.

I would rather change the goalie than the goalie coach. Something that has finally happened.

The impact of getting rid of Pavelec is huge. The impact of changing a goalie coach...... who knows. Very much less than the impact of improving the underlying talent of the guy standing between the pipes.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 06:34 PM
  #53
Dayofthedogs
Registered User
 
Dayofthedogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by uTurris View Post
Keep our fingers crossed the Hawks fire Quenneville and the Jets pick him up.
Hope you don't like Dano

Dayofthedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 06:41 PM
  #54
Dayofthedogs
Registered User
 
Dayofthedogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,076
vCash: 500
It was reported Hellebyuck is working with the guy Dubnyk used this off season. Perhaps we will see a glimps of what kind of impact coaching has on the goalie.

For Flats, I wouldn't mind a change either way with him as I have no idea what he does but it doesn't seem like he's doing it well.

As for Huddy. I don't really mind him, a lot of our defensemen have seemed to do well under him. I don't really see the same defensive "issues" a lot of posters seem to.


Last edited by Dayofthedogs: 07-12-2017 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Redacted statement I couldn't prove to be true.
Dayofthedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 06:43 PM
  #55
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,719
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayofthedogs View Post
It was reported Hellebyuck is working with the guy Dubnyk used this off season. Perhaps we will see a glimps of what kind of impact coaching has on the goalie position.

With flats I think the most damning evidence is the fact every single goalie we've had has had a better AHL Sv%.... The AHL is a league with a lower avg SV% than the NHL traditionally if I'm not mistaken. That's kinda ****ed up. Wouldn't mind a change either way with him as I have no idea what he does but it doesn't seem like he's doing it well.

As for Huddy. I don't really mind him, a lot of our defensemen have seemed to do well under him. I don't really see the same defensive "issues" a lot of posters seem to.
I think you are mistaken

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 06:45 PM
  #56
Arthur Fonzarelli
Registered User
 
Arthur Fonzarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,717
vCash: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayofthedogs View Post
It was reported Hellebyuck is working with the guy Dubnyk used this off season. Perhaps we will see a glimps of what kind of impact coaching has on the goalie position.

With flats I think the most damning evidence is the fact every single goalie we've had has had a better AHL Sv%.... The AHL is a league with a lower avg SV% than the NHL traditionally if I'm not mistaken. That's kinda ****ed up. Wouldn't mind a change either way with him as I have no idea what he does but it doesn't seem like he's doing it well.

As for Huddy. I don't really mind him, a lot of our defensemen have seemed to do well under him. I don't really see the same defensive "issues" a lot of posters seem to.
I mentioned him earlier today. You're referring to Adam Francilia.

https://www.arcticicehockey.com/2017...season-changes

https://jetsnation.ca/2017/05/27/fri...mmer-training/

Arthur Fonzarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 07:05 PM
  #57
Daximus
Aces Charles
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Five Hills
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,623
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I think it's a form of venting frustrations. An easy target.

I would rather change the goalie than the goalie coach. Something that has finally happened.

The impact of getting rid of Pavelec is huge. The impact of changing a goalie coach...... who knows. Very much less than the impact of improving the underlying talent of the guy standing between the pipes.
It's easy to change both. I'd rather get a goalie coach our goalies rave about than one who they don't say a peep about. You hear goalies praising their coaches all the time. Has anyone ever praised Flaherty for anything?

Daximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 07:44 PM
  #58
Dayofthedogs
Registered User
 
Dayofthedogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
I think you are mistaken
Fair enough. I'll have to look. Thought I heard someone on 1290 say that the AHL traditionally had a lower SV% than the NHL.

Dayofthedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 07:52 PM
  #59
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,719
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayofthedogs View Post
Fair enough. I'll have to look. Thought I heard someone on 1290 say that the AHL traditionally had a lower SV% than the NHL.
Most goalies sv% drops when they transition to the NHL

Helle

AHL .921.922
NHL .918 .907

Yr2 AHL & yr1 NHL were same season.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 09:27 PM
  #60
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,059
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
You are not qualified to assess and neither am I. Who would you replace him with?

IMO if the Jets had Carey Price, Flaherty would be considered a genius. Talent in talent out.

I'm not arguing he's a great coach. All I'm saying here is 99.9% of posters here including you have no idea one way or the other
Of course I'm qualified to assess. I'm not qualified to do the job myself. That is entirely different. I'm looking at the results. No expertise required.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 09:34 PM
  #61
Channelcat
Registered User
 
Channelcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,920
vCash: 50
They should both be gone on their record alone. To echo some of the sentiments on here, I don't believe Charlie Huddy knows squat about defense.

Channelcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 09:43 PM
  #62
JetBlue420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eagle Creek Drive
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,489
vCash: 500
While i think both should go... Im pretty convinced they are just running the systems (huddy more so) that the head coach wants them 2. I feel both should go.. But the fact they brought kompon in last year and for most the season the PP and PK looked exactly like what maurice ran with Vincent leads me to believe that its the head coach who is clueless. Basically seems like Mo is a bit 2 hands on.

JetBlue420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 09:58 PM
  #63
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,719
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Of course I'm qualified to assess. I'm not qualified to do the job myself. That is entirely different. I'm looking at the results. No expertise required.
What? You have zero credibilty in this area. You are criticizing, not assessing. Those are very different things IMO.

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 10:14 PM
  #64
Dayofthedogs
Registered User
 
Dayofthedogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Most goalies sv% drops when they transition to the NHL

Helle

AHL .921.922
NHL .918 .907

Yr2 AHL & yr1 NHL were same season.
I'm having a hard time finding the numbers at the moment. I'll redact the statement until I have some difinitive proof. Don't want to push false info.

Dayofthedogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 10:14 PM
  #65
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,059
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
What? You have zero credibilty in this area. You are criticizing, not assessing. Those are very different things IMO.
No. I'm assessing. I'm not assessing the nuts and bolts of what he has or has not done. You are correct that I know nothing about that. I'm not criticizing the nuts and bolts either. I'm assessing the results.

Goalies who came in with outstanding resumes have failed consistently under his coaching. Show me his success. He's had 6 years. How long should he get? Would 20 years with no accomplishment see you defending him so vehemently because we can't criticize the finer points of what he does? Do you want to apply the same standard to the HC? Should we give Maurice 20 years without winning a PO game because he has always had bad goalies?

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:19 PM
  #66
Jets4Life
Registered User
 
Jets4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hellebuyck County
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
How much would he have helped Pavelec?

The talent needs to be there in order for the coach to coax it out
If Pavelec starts to shine in NYC, we should be asking serious questions about the quality of coaching the goalie are receiving.

Jets4Life is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:29 PM
  #67
pucka lucka
Registered User
 
pucka lucka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,510
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
This seems the best point made in the entire Flaherty discussion, one that's capable single-handedly of voiding all opposing views. I can't imagine what the team's rationalization would be for keeping him, but it certainly can't be results.
Well they hired him, so you know, they'd be wrong and disloyal if they fired him or some such dumb **** no one at this level should believe.

pucka lucka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:37 PM
  #68
Aavco Cup
Registered User
 
Aavco Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 25,719
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
No. I'm assessing. I'm not assessing the nuts and bolts of what he has or has not done. You are correct that I know nothing about that. I'm not criticizing the nuts and bolts either. I'm assessing the results.

Goalies who came in with outstanding resumes have failed consistently under his coaching. Show me his success. He's had 6 years. How long should he get? Would 20 years with no accomplishment see you defending him so vehemently because we can't criticize the finer points of what he does? Do you want to apply the same standard to the HC? Should we give Maurice 20 years without winning a PO game because he has always had bad goalies?
You think Pavelec was outstanding? Who else?

You are misunderstanding me Mort yet again. I'm not defending him. I'm arguing against the blind Flaherty hate.

At some point the head coach will be replaced. Normally assistant coaches are the head coaches domain. The next head coach will want different people. Let the dominoes fall properly.

I don't know if Flaherty did a good job or not. But I do know he wasn't able to turn water into wine. Why is that a reason to judge him so harshly when you even admit you know nothing about his job?

This is my last post in this thread. Enjoy the hatefest. Bye!

Aavco Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2017, 11:41 PM
  #69
Ducky10
Playoff Enthusiast
 
Ducky10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,064
vCash: 50
If goalie coaches are just the product of the talent they are given, why bother having them at all? What the hell difference would it make?

Coaching at the pro level is about results, plain and simple. What results have we seen on the ice that indicate Flaherty might be effective at his job?

Ducky10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 12:01 AM
  #70
Arthur Fonzarelli
Registered User
 
Arthur Fonzarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,717
vCash: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
You think Pavelec was outstanding? Who else?

You are misunderstanding me Mort yet again. I'm not defending him. I'm arguing against the blind Flaherty hate.

At some point the head coach will be replaced. Normally assistant coaches are the head coaches domain. The next head coach will want different people. Let the dominoes fall properly.

I don't know if Flaherty did a good job or not. But I do know he wasn't able to turn water into wine. Why is that a reason to judge him so harshly when you even admit you know nothing about his job?

This is my last post in this thread. Enjoy the hatefest. Bye!
There's several blatant negative threads going on at the moment. I can understand why eventually you just have to walk away.

What's odd is that every acceptable reason for hatred has disappeared.

Pavelec, Thorburn, Stuart, Burmistrov & Peluso are gone. The off ice issues with Kane traded away. The GST line a faded memory.

But people have to find something to complain about & anyone attempting to argue their way into painting a more reasonable picture is dismissed.

In another thread I took issue with the way a poll was laid out, not because I'm a stickler for small details (which I admittedly am) but because looking at the poll presented a picture not at all correct.

Low & behold a week later we're now addressing how the assistant coaches need to go as well.

"Analytics (or lack of) be damned, my gut tells me Flaherty needs to go."

Stephen Colbert's character on the Colbert report once said "My brain is in my gut. That's a fact. I know so because that's what my gut tells me."

There's a lot of pressure on professional athletes, particularly hockey players playing in a small market. It gets pretty bad for them, for management, as well as for the fans when things fall apart.

Relatively speaking right now things are sunshine & roses. Can't we enjoy that for a moment?


Last edited by Arthur Fonzarelli: 07-13-2017 at 12:08 AM.
Arthur Fonzarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 12:10 AM
  #71
Puckatron 3000
Glitchy Prototype
 
Puckatron 3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Offensive Zone
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,545
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhamnov5GoalGame View Post
At one point my poor fiance said "ok you'll have to wait until later to talk to "Stickatron" and your HF friends."
Stickatron 6000 is my evil twin brother. Whenever I post something really dumb or break the rules, it's him posing as me.

Puckatron 3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 06:28 AM
  #72
Eyeseeing
Registered User
 
Eyeseeing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Country: Iceland
Posts: 2,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
You think Pavelec was outstanding? Who else?

You are misunderstanding me Mort yet again. I'm not defending him. I'm arguing against the blind Flaherty hate.

At some point the head coach will be replaced. Normally assistant coaches are the head coaches domain. The next head coach will want different people. Let the dominoes fall properly.

I don't know if Flaherty did a good job or not. But I do know he wasn't able to turn water into wine. Why is that a reason to judge him so harshly when you even admit you know nothing about his job?

This is my last post in this thread. Enjoy the hatefest. Bye!
It's too bad you feel this way seriously.
Nobody is hating that's a bit strong to say.
There is nothing wrong with expressing doubts about the coaching staff.
Have we led the league in goaltending stats ? No but we sure bring up the bottom.
I don't hate Flaherty but I'd sure like "different"coaching for our guys.
Sorry Aavco but I don't think hate is the right term.
It's a very easy change to make.
This year Chevy has the roster tweaked and ready to compete, there are many threads that show the majority of HF Jets have the staff on short leashes

Eyeseeing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 07:19 AM
  #73
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,813
vCash: 500
I really don't see how this thread is hating on Wade! There have been many good points brought up on our individual and team performance in net. He is after all the coach in charge of that position here. Pavs was a garbage goalie so no I don't fault Wade for not being able to turn him into something passable. Where I question him is the declining performance in both Hutch and Helle as the number of games they have played has increased.

Hutch has gone .914 to .907 to .903 the last 3 seasons.

Helle went .918 to .908

This is a trend that is troubling to me and should be to the organization. Obviously the more games you play the more time teams have to scout and breakdown your game for weaknesses to exploit but there is a playbook for every goalie in the league and yet many are able to tweak their games to continually shore up weaknesses so that they retain good numbers. Yet for some reason our goalies are incapable of doing this (Hutch) or slow moving on it Helle with his glove. It is on the failure to correct weaknesses and make in season tweaks in their games where I really question Flaherty. He should be systematically studying each of our goalies games at all times and devising drills and technique improvements continually to keep our guys performing. I have seen very little evidence of our goalies being able to adapt on the fly and while at the end of the day the goalie is accountable for his performance I feel that Flaherty needs to wear some of that accountability for not being able to help our young guys maintain performance or improve. We have seen good goaltending coaches have success with helping good young goalies with equal or lesser pedigrees achieve superior results to our goalies. Something really has to give on this.

surixon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 08:54 AM
  #74
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 10,008
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Fonzarelli View Post
Relatively speaking right now things are sunshine & roses. Can't we enjoy that for a moment?
Yes... but people are just worried that Flaherty is going to spray the roses with roundup.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2017, 08:57 AM
  #75
GoJetsGo55
Registered User
 
GoJetsGo55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 6,268
vCash: 109
****ING

PREACH

IT

BROTHER!

I have no idea why those guys are still around.

"Hey! Your D and Goaltending need work!"

*swaps head coach*

*swaps players*

*same issues*

*keep the 2 guys running those areas*

Makes NO sense to me.

From my understanding, Huddy still runs a man to man system while most teams run a zone. Hitch in St. L ran man to man and the team had a sub .900 sv%. Hitch was fired and Yeo took over. He ran a zone system on the same team and the sv% shot up over .930.

GoJetsGo55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.