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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Offer Made to Purchase Hurricanes for $500MM and stay in Carolina. (Upd: Post 73)

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Old
07-13-2017, 02:04 PM
  #51
M.C.G. 31
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Nice to see people can stop suggesting them as relocation options for Quebec. Good for the Canes fans, too.

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07-13-2017, 02:06 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
I'm not sure how they sold for over 2x what their Forbes evaluation was though? I know most of those are guesstimates since most of that info isn't public, but they usually aren't THAT far off.
Forbes valuations are, across every sport, almost always about half of what teams actually sell for. They're always comically wrong, but they're also comically wrong in a consistent way.

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07-13-2017, 02:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Personally, I don't believe the 500M price.

NHL will always say it's that, but these are private deals, and we'll never really know.
NHL including debt forgiveness?

They needed someone to buy Carolina, the state of NC and the local county and city governments all pitched in to building and maintaining their state-of-the-art arena before kindly handing the keys over to Karmanos, and (a la Calgary today) it's clear they don't want this gravy train to end.

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07-13-2017, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Personally, I don't believe the 500M price.

NHL will always say it's that, but these are private deals, and we'll never really know.
Yup.. you are correct.

Can you think of a quicker way of devalue a new team that hasn't started play yet than another team that just sold for significantly less?

$500 million is just the sticker price for optics.

Imagine how Foley will feel if the real price is ever revealed...
assuming he even really paid 500 million.

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07-13-2017, 02:17 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Anyways, while it's a ridiculous price for the buyer, its a very good price for the league and the canes prospects in NC
You might think it is ridiculous, but the people with the money do not. LV and now this deal shows the market value of a NHL franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Personally, I don't believe the 500M price.

NHL will always say it's that, but these are private deals, and we'll never really know.
You believe what you want, but the NHL is not going to send out the wrong numbers, that would be foolish. These numbers always get leaked to the public.

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07-13-2017, 02:31 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
$500M also implies that this isn't being done with the intent to flip for profit.
Are there a lot of cases of this?

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07-13-2017, 02:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jakey53 View Post
You might think it is ridiculous, but the people with the money do not. LV and now this deal shows the market value of a NHL franchise.



You believe what you want, but the NHL is not going to send out the wrong numbers, that would be foolish. These numbers always get leaked to the public.
I find it interesting that they hit exactly the price of expansion. It not 545 or 480 just right on target. Eventually that kind of stuff do get leak, it's just that by that time nobody paying attention anymore.

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07-13-2017, 02:50 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jim Benning View Post
Are there a lot of cases of this?
If he wanted a team in a specific area, he'd just pay the 500 million and get it now rather than 500 million, wait 5-7 years, then pay a fee to break the lease and a relocation fee.

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07-13-2017, 02:51 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
I find it interesting that they hit exactly the price of expansion. It not 545 or 480 just right on target. Eventually that kind of stuff do get leak, it's just that by that time nobody paying attention anymore.
I imagine we'll find out what they really spent when something official comes out.

If it's $500 on the nose, I guess that's the next topic.

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07-13-2017, 02:55 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by M.C.G. 31 View Post
Nice to see people can stop suggesting them as relocation options for Quebec.
You think that'll stop them?


Last edited by Dirty Old Man: 07-14-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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07-13-2017, 03:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
I think you can add in some performance-based expectation as well (in terms of the sale price I mean). Team is trending up, looks to be in position to be really competitive for the next 8-10 years and a solid management team in place (finally). One could reasonably look at their history of fan support with winning teams in place and see a lot of profit opportunity there if you're forward-thinking. Karmanos, for all his appreciation of hockey, never seemed to care to capitalize on the team's success post-Stanley Cup in terms of PR and growing the fanbase. They've always just kinda been like "we're here if you like hockey" without ever really doing a ton of outreach.

A smart investor would see a market with a ton of upwardly-mobile people with a ton of dispensable income and no other pro sports teams in the vicinity. You wouldn't think that would be terribly hard to exploit. I just don't think Karmanos ever cared to.
Pretty much reflects my thoughts. Was always pulling for success in markets like Raliegh and Nashville where I think the NHL,has its best chance for success in nontraditional markets.
Good news for Canes fans.

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07-13-2017, 03:19 PM
  #62
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I'm as big a fan of the NHL returning to Quebec as anyone but this is awesome news. That team has something special building on the defense. Good to see they'll get to stay in Carolina.

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07-13-2017, 03:23 PM
  #63
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well Gale Force Holdings always had the Checkers included and Michael Kahn was a minority investor in Carolina. so the Checkers are indirectly thrilled about this.

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07-13-2017, 03:31 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finlandia WOAT View Post
If he wanted a team in a specific area, he'd just pay the 500 million and get it now rather than 500 million, wait 5-7 years, then pay a fee to break the lease and a relocation fee.
Exactly. Relocation rumors based in anything resembling reality can end here.

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07-13-2017, 03:35 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
well Gale Force Holdings always had the Checkers included and Michael Kahn was a minority investor in Carolina. so the Checkers are indirectly thrilled about this.
I'm not sure what you mean here. GFSE doesn't own or (to my knowledge) have an ownership stake in MAK Hockey, who owns the Checkers, although Checker's president/CEO Michael Kahn does have an ownership stake in the Canes which he acquired long after he originally purchased the ECHL Checkers (2006) and after the purchase of the AHL franchise (2010). GFSE does own the ECHL Florida Everblades, so I'd be curious how they're impacted by this.

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07-13-2017, 03:40 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
I find it interesting that they hit exactly the price of expansion.
what a coincidence!

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07-13-2017, 03:42 PM
  #67
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"Stay in Carolina" can mean they move to Charlotte, Charleston, Greensboro, Greenville/Spartansburg...it's like saying "Golden State Warriors Sold - Will Stay in Golden State".

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07-13-2017, 03:56 PM
  #68
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So I just question if its a straight $500mil, or a $500mil conjured up for optics? I dont see how its worth so much when some think the NHL winds up on the wrong side of the tv bubble in a few years.

I just find it convenient that within months of $500mil for LV, we get $500mil for the Canes. Its why I wondered what a Seattle expansion would go for at times with a less-giddy owner than Foley.

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07-13-2017, 04:00 PM
  #69
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07-13-2017, 04:03 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by rj View Post
"Stay in Carolina" can mean they move to Charlotte, Charleston, Greensboro, Greenville/Spartansburg...it's like saying "Golden State Warriors Sold - Will Stay in Golden State".
From the local news channel:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRAL
As part of the agreement, the Hurricanes would remain in Raleigh
So no they won't be moving anywhere else in NC. In fact, they have one of the best leases until 2024, so again and has always been stated, Canes won't be relocating.

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07-13-2017, 04:05 PM
  #71
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good news for Carolina fans! grats!! The jaundiced eye of relocation rest solely on pheonix now?

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07-13-2017, 04:10 PM
  #72
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Great news for Carolina! I'm very pleased for Hurricanes fans knowing the team will have solid ownership.


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07-13-2017, 04:11 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by antiqueslivers View Post
good news for carolina fans! Grats!! The jaundiced eye of relocation rest solely on pheonix now?

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07-13-2017, 04:14 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
So I just question if its a straight $500mil, or a $500mil conjured up for optics? I dont see how its worth so much when some think the NHL winds up on the wrong side of the tv bubble in a few years.

I just find it convenient that within months of $500mil for LV, we get $500mil for the Canes. Its why I wondered what a Seattle expansion would go for at times with a less-giddy owner than Foley.

Yeah, can't accept the facts so lets make up up conspiracy theories.

Anyway the vultures can move on to the next team on the list of ever diminishing relocation candidates.

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07-13-2017, 04:20 PM
  #75
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This is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered. A new owner who not only cares about his product, but also sees the value in keeping the team put.

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Last edited by BattleBorn: 07-13-2017 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Be easy.
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