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Marc Bergevin - "My kingdom for a center!" Edition

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Old
07-13-2017, 05:04 PM
  #76
DAChampion
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He could of walked into the Pens or Washington. He could of walked into TOR from last year or EDM when PC did. Those are way better situations. Walking onto a team that was barely making the playoffs so no high draft picks. Also he walked onto a team with Gomez and Kabrle's horrible contracts. Markov was a question mark if he could actually be healthy enough to play again.

The only reason why I bring up the record is to show that MB didn't walk onto a team that was 1 step away from the cup. Total revisionist history to pretend that after 08 (team finished 3rd and was looking up) that this was a powerhouse team and a great situation to walk into. I don't doubt if we pull up posts from 09/10/11 we will see tons of complaints about how horrible the team is, how they are going nohwere, bounced from the 1st round, missing the playoffs. Gauthier & Gainey suck, Jacques Martin sucks, defense sucks, were too small, Gomez sucks, Spacek sucks, Campoli sucks. Bourque sucks, Halak is better than Price etc... Its really ironic that people are trying to pass off those teams as good teams. Yup I am sure most people couldn't tell the difference between the habs and the Wings/Pens/Bruins/Chicago back then either. I
Gomez? Seriously?

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07-13-2017, 05:04 PM
  #77
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Thing is I am not going to go into a player vs player debate. I am not even discussing how much credit should go to MB. If you want to see he gets none thats your opinion. We can disagree but you made a strong argument.
I am not discussing player vs player. Did you read what I wrote? I explained to you from a fans perspective that watched every Habs game, why the Habs are trending up.

I gave him credit for Briere and Vanek. They helped the team get over the hump. I put a lot of effort into writing my post, I would appreciate you read it before you jump to the wrong conclusion.[/QUOTE]

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What is undeniable is that before MB came on board the habs were a team that finished at the bottom half of the league and struggled to make the playoffs. Thats what the record reflects. I don't think they had good teams back then, I guess you do based on roster. Gomez/Cammy/Gio/Spacek/Kaberle/Campoli/Gill/Halak/Huet etc... do not make a good team. Habs were seen as a soft and weak team. We were always picked to be outside of the playoffs.
I have no idea what you mean by "before MB came on board the habs were a team that finished at the bottom half of the league and struggled to make the playoffs"

09-10: Completely new roster, took time to get the chemistry going. Once they hit the playoffs, look out.

10-11: This team was so good... Looking at the standing doesn't describe the talent on this team. If Max was healthy, who knows what could have happened vs Boston, the eventual Cup winners.

11-12: Markov, Wiz and Hamrlik not on the team anymore. That D took a beating. Are they that bad? Let's look to the future t find out.

12-13: With Markov back the team plays much better. MB brings in Gallagher and Galchenyuk in a more supporting role. Signs Bouillon, Armstrong and Prust. Trades for Ryder. The core is identical to the year before.

13-14: Briere in, played more bottom 6 than anything. Murray, bottom pairing player. Traded for Parros and Weise. Again the core is identical to the 11-12 team.

So stop talking about the 11-12 team like it was a completely different roster. The top6 and top4 were almost identical, except Gallagher.

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07-13-2017, 05:07 PM
  #78
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Thats true. All we know is he could of chosen to sign here MB made him an offer and he decided to sign somewhere else.

The same MB that wooed and swooned him 1 year prior and convinced him to come to Montreal for 1 year amist all his appearnt other amazing offers he had out there.

So either in 1 year Radu turned on MB and the city ? Maybe he loved DD and MT so much it broke his heart to see them go? Or maybe the guy really wanted 7x6 as rumors said and no one would give it to him so he took the next best offer, which also happens to be in a place where he will have more take home cash in his pocket that he doesn't have to jump through hoops to "defer" to some other future date.

If you think MB should of given him that huge contract then fine blame him for not meeting Radu's demands and paying him close to 5 million more than any other team.

If you think Radu at 6.25x5 is appropriate then its on Radu for rejecting that offer and deciding to sign with a different team.
We don't even know that much... Other than the Habs saying they did.

Which is not very convincing when an organisation suddenly act completely out of character. The Canadiens are always secretive about contract negotiation and information usually need to pried from the opposing camp (they don't even disclose player salary in their official press release). And then on that faithful day of July they were a completely open book when it came to the negotiation with Radulov, took them minutes to pass the info the media.

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07-13-2017, 05:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
For me it matters. Why would Boston give up on a 25 year old D that could possibly be a #2 guy? That's absurd.
The guy is 24 with less than 100 NHL games played.

Boston has young guys pushing and Krug with Chara on the left side.

You're putting too much emphasis on #2 #3 #4 here...

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The puck would get dumped out then come right back in. Emelin-Weber pairing was awful. You can have your first pairing lowering your team GF60 by more than 1.00 when they're on the ice, since they are on the ice a lot.

Once the unsutainable GA60 was gone this was a terribly ineffective pairing. And a Alzner-Weber pairing is the same thing waiting to happen.
Yes because all those guys can do is get the puck out off the boards...

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I guess this is what I am alluding to without actually finding the stats. Could you point me in the right direction?

edit: I found a site, but it doesn't have it with pairs, only individuals. For instance 5 on 5, Weber is near the bottom of the team in GF60 and Emelin is even worse. But what about together?
When you log a lot of minutes and usually start your shifts in your own end your GF/60 will take a hit.

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Quick question if someone could help me.

To careful, I don't full believe in corsi stats being terms as possession numbers, IMO teams can and do take actually time of puck possession, and offensive zonetime and d-zone time.

But in terms of the advance stats fans/media use, where have the Habs ranked.

If I understand correctly, there were top 10 team in "possession" number the past 2 years..
Second this year and fifth last year.

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07-13-2017, 05:08 PM
  #80
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Gomez? Seriously?
??? He was a good contract and good player for the habs the 3 years he played here?

All I remember is constant complaints about how horrible he is and how horrible his contract is.

You think DD centering our 1st line is bad, while Gomez is way worse.

And this is the supposed team that some people think was a strong team and a step or 2 away from the cup? LOL A team with Gomez and his ******** salary was not a good team nor one that was going to be good in the future.

The buyout was a saving grace for MB. Imagine if there is no lockout and MB still had Gomez contract on the books his first few years.

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07-13-2017, 05:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Habs analytics were very good. The D was around top-10 or better last season in most relevant stats. Scoring-chances against, high-danger, total shots, Corsi & Fenwick -- all ranked between 3rd and 11th best. You can find all of this on NHL.com and NaturalStatTrick.

Offensive numbers were also good, but here's where there's a disconnect between analytics and results. Based on the analytics, Habs should've scored much more. Of course they didn't, which shows the difference between creating opportunities and capitalizing on them. Habs were able to get the puck in the general vicinity of the opposing net, but lacked the talent to shoot, deflect, tip, or bang the puck past the goalie. It's no coincidence our team makes so many goalies look like Hasek -- the closer we are to the net the weaker we get.
Thanks for the summary. But funny/odd how Bergevin has/gets this old school view yet habs do so well from an analytic standpoint. I mean their top 4 had Emelin and Weber in it, who "analytic guys don't like yet it did so well. Likely going to be the same with Alzner now lol.

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07-13-2017, 05:09 PM
  #82
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Second this year and fifth last year.
Thanks for the reply

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07-13-2017, 05:15 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post

I gave him credit for Briere and Vanek. They helped the team get over the hump. I put a lot of effort into writing my post, I would appreciate you read it before you jump to the wrong conclusion.
On this point at least you are far more charitable than I am. The rush to sign ****** Briere to a 2-year contract was a waste of resources, an opportunity cost in that he should have signed Jagr who could actually still play, and an indication that MB did not prioritize the right things. Then he turned washed up Briere over to Therrible who had no interest in using him.

Signed a 2-year deal in year two of the MB era, we are finally out from under it in year 5. He might as well have taken 8M of Molson's money to the roof and burned it.

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07-13-2017, 05:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
I am not discussing player vs player. Did you read what I wrote? I explained to you from a fans perspective that watched every Habs game, why the Habs are trending up.

I gave him credit for Briere and Vanek. They helped the team get over the hump. I put a lot of effort into writing my post, I would appreciate you read it before you jump to the wrong conclusion.
Not sure how you could say they were trending up. And lets put aside what MB did and just discuss the team before MB came on board. My post is not about post MB, its about pre MB. I think we both know where we stand on our opinions on MB and even if I disagree with some of yours I do respect them and think you make many good arguments.

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I have no idea what you mean by "before MB came on board the habs were a team that finished at the bottom half of the league and struggled to make the playoffs"
Because I was talking about what the team was like before MB came on board that he didn't walk into a golden situation with a strong team. The years before MB came on board the team finished 19th/14th/28th. They made the playoffs 2 of those years but were a bubble team.

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09-10: Completely new roster, took time to get the chemistry going. Once they hit the playoffs, look out.
Still finished 19th in the league and barely made the playoffs. It was a new roster made up of guys like Gomez/Cammy/Gio/Gill/Spacek. Weak/Small players not the type of guys you really want to build around. Cammy/Gio gave the habs some good service but lets be frank having all those small/weak guys on the team was not smart. Team had 88 pts, 1 less point and they miss the playoffs. Halak put them on his back and they had a flucky ECF run.

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10-11: This team was so good... Looking at the standing doesn't describe the talent on this team. If Max was healthy, who knows what could have happened vs Boston, the eventual Cup winners.
Team got better in the RS but barely finishing 14th. I guess they added in Max and PK that year. Price was a bit better too. Still had the slugs from the year before. There is no way I can take a team with Gomez as its top C seriously. And bounced in 1st round. Again people are losing their heads this year after being bounced in round 1 but its ok back then and a sign of a good team? Even if Max is healthy I don't see this team making a run

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11-12: Markov, Wiz and Hamrlik not on the team anymore. That D took a beating. Are they that bad? Let's look to the future t find out.
Yes they were bad. They finished 3rd last. The D sucked hard. Ok we had Cole and Max break out. DD broke out to. Big deal DD was a curse more than a blessing. The team sucked and earned its record regardless of Markov being injured. Hmmm sounds a lot like when Price went down. But that year its all on MT and MB and a team shouldn't go in the tank if they lose 1 player. But in 2011 we can blame it all on no Markov. So basically Habs were a 1 man team back then too I guess?

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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
12-13: With Markov back the team plays much better. MB brings in Gallagher and Galchenyuk in a more supporting role. Signs Bouillon, Armstrong and Prust. Trades for Ryder. The core is identical to the year before.

13-14: Briere in, played more bottom 6 than anything. Murray, bottom pairing player. Traded for Parros and Weise. Again the core is identical to the 11-12 team.

So stop talking about the 11-12 team like it was a completely different roster. The top6 and top4 were almost identical, except Gallagher.
This is post MB. Whatever he did or didn't do can be debated its a seperate discussion. IMHO bringing in AG+Galley and MT gave the team a spark that carried them to the ECF in 2013.

Getting rid of Gomez and Kabrle was enough of a transformation between teams.

All I will say is you really cut those older teams a lot of slack and give them a lot of benefit of the doubt and have rose colored glasses for those teams. Teams with worse results and probably worse players but somehow they were on the rise and looking good.

So whats really the debate here? I don't agree with your premise that the team before MB was a strong team and close to being a contender. He had a few good pieces and his 3 young guns maturing was the biggest factor in the turn around. But that doesn't change the fact that before MB took over the teams were not good and did not have good results. Its honestly like saying the Leafs under Burke were a good team and Shanny walked onto a team that was close to contending.

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Old
07-13-2017, 05:25 PM
  #85
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Still interesting no?

I mean scoring their were 13th in the league (5on5), with a PDO of 100.8 which I believe the closer it is to 100 the better.

So they have this old school hockey mindset, dump and chase yet but have good "corsi possession numbers" which is suppose to be controlled zone exists and entry.
correlation between corsi possession number and controlled zone exists and entry isn't significant. Corsi is just shot attempts for - shot attempts against. Controlled exits/entries aren't needed to acheive good corsi. Montreal tilted more "sustained pressure once in the zone" than "control of flow through controlled exits and entries". To borrow from basketball, they tilted more iso with relying on their possession driving forwards (Patches, Gallagher, Shaw, Danault, Byron) and Petry to do the heavy lifting. Which is fine in the NHL, but ideally you get your D to do more of that work and rely on your forwards to create chances. And Petry is really the only guy Montreal can rely on to drive the play up the ice from the back end. Weber leans more stay at home with cannon, Alzner kills offense at both ends and hurts possession and everyone else is a wildcard right now.

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07-13-2017, 05:27 PM
  #86
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??? He was a good contract and good player for the habs the 3 years he played here?

All I remember is constant complaints about how horrible he is and how horrible his contract is.

You think DD centering our 1st line is bad, while Gomez is way worse.

And this is the supposed team that some people think was a strong team and a step or 2 away from the cup? LOL A team with Gomez and his ******** salary was not a good team nor one that was going to be good in the future.

The buyout was a saving grace for MB. Imagine if there is no lockout and MB still had Gomez contract on the books his first few years.
But there was a lockout and MB signed on with a team that had no problem eating the salaries on the two buyouts. Not sure that MB should credit for any heartache associated with a problem he didn't have to face.

And has been explained countless times.

Year 1, MB signed a deluxe 4th liner (Prust) a 6/7D (Cube) and a 12/13F (Armstrong). The team proceeded to finish 1st in the division and got drummed out of the playoffs. So, basically the team we have now.

MB's year 1 team got an infusion of players from within (Gallagher, return of Markov, return of Gionta), the 3OV pick who stepped in right away, and the growth of young star players (Max, Price, PK). It did not go from 3rd worst to 1st in the division because of Prust and Armstrong.

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07-13-2017, 05:28 PM
  #87
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What I will say about Corsi is that last summer it was the number 1 topic on this board. Everything was Corsi. PK is great look at Corsi. MT sucks look at Corsi. Habs can never win a cup look at Corsi.

Since habs have become one of the better Corsi teams it seems to have completely dropped off as a topic of discussion. Its barely even mentioned at all. Its interesting because Corsi was revered around here.

Bold prediction if habs bottom out on Corsi this season you will see tons of post about Corsi. If habs are at the top (which most CJ teams are) you will not see anyone mention Corsi.

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07-13-2017, 05:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Captain Wolverine View Post
correlation between corsi possession number and controlled zone exists and entry isn't significant. Corsi is just shot attempts for - shot attempts against. Controlled exits/entries aren't needed to acheive good corsi. Montreal tilted more "sustained pressure once in the zone" than "control of flow through controlled exits and entries". To borrow from basketball, they tilted more iso with relying on their possession driving forwards (Patches, Gallagher, Shaw, Danault, Byron) and Petry to do the heavy lifting. Which is fine in the NHL, but ideally you get your D to do more of that work and rely on your forwards to create chances. And Petry is really the only guy Montreal can rely on to drive the play up the ice from the back end. Weber leans more stay at home with cannon, Alzner kills offense at both ends and hurts possession and everyone else is a wildcard right now.
cool, thanks for the breakdown.

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Old
07-13-2017, 05:33 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Habs analytics were very good. The D was around top-10 or better last season in most relevant stats. Scoring-chances against, high-danger, total shots, Corsi & Fenwick -- all ranked between 3rd and 11th best. You can find all of this on NHL.com and NaturalStatTrick.

Offensive numbers were also good, but here's where there's a disconnect between analytics and results. Based on the analytics, Habs should've scored much more. Of course they didn't, which shows the difference between creating opportunities and capitalizing on them. Habs were able to get the puck in the general vicinity of the opposing net, but lacked the talent to shoot, deflect, tip, or bang the puck past the goalie. It's no coincidence our team makes so many goalies look like Hasek -- the closer we are to the net the weaker we get.
Not really. Montreal's xGF was middle of the pack and so was their GF. And talent to shoot, deflect, tip, or bang the puck past the goalie wasn't the big problem. It was creating separation and/or confusion from defenders and forcing opposing goalies into uncomfortable positions. They were short on playmakers. They still are too.

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07-13-2017, 05:35 PM
  #90
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But there was a lockout and MB signed on with a team that had no problem eating the salaries on the two buyouts. Not sure that MB should credit for any heartache associated with a problem he didn't have to face.
I wasn't giving him credit. I was putting out a hypothetical that if there was no buyout how much worse the team would be with Gomez and his contract on the books. It is scientifically impossible to take a team with Gomez and his contract on the books seriously.

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And has been explained countless times.

Year 1, MB signed a deluxe 4th liner (Prust) a 6/7D (Cube) and a 12/13F (Armstrong). The team proceeded to finish 1st in the division and got drummed out of the playoffs. So, basically the team we have now.

MB's year 1 team got an infusion of players from within (Gallagher, return of Markov, return of Gionta), the 3OV pick who stepped in right away, and the growth of young star players (Max, Price, PK). It did not go from 3rd worst to 1st in the division because of Prust and Armstrong.
And again I am not debating what MB did or didn't do. I know most positions and most know mine.

I am just debating that before MB came on board the habs had a good team trending in the right direction with a good roster and were close to a cup or contending.

Remove the rose colored and MB hating glasses and realize that in 09/10/11 this team was not very good, struggled to make the playoffs and had a small/weak roster with a bad defence.

I highly doubt people were talking about how great a Gomez lead habs team will be with such stalwarts like Spacek or Gill or Campoli or Kabrle on the backend are. Gio was a fun player but he was a shrimp. Max/PK/Price looked like some nice pieces but the rest of the roster stunk and that was reflected in the results it put up.

If you want to attribute the team turning around because Price/Max/PK got older so be it. If its just because Markov was finally heatlhty so be it. But before MB came on board those conditions didn't exsist and the team was bad.

Read the HF archive. I don't even need to read it to know that it will be full of Habs suck, Gomez sucks, Gio sucks, Campoli sucks, Gauthier sucks, Jacques Martin sucks, Markov is injury prone, team bounced from 1st round they suck, and on and on and on...

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07-13-2017, 05:38 PM
  #91
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Habs analytics were very good. The D was around top-10 or better last season in most relevant stats. Scoring-chances against, high-danger, total shots, Corsi & Fenwick -- all ranked between 3rd and 11th best. You can find all of this on NHL.com and NaturalStatTrick.

Offensive numbers were also good, but here's where there's a disconnect between analytics and results. Based on the analytics, Habs should've scored much more. Of course they didn't, which shows the difference between creating opportunities and capitalizing on them. Habs were able to get the puck in the general vicinity of the opposing net, but lacked the talent to shoot, deflect, tip, or bang the puck past the goalie. It's no coincidence our team makes so many goalies look like Hasek -- the closer we are to the net the weaker we get.
The bolded is a good point. The habs were not good at finishing the chances they got. They also were not particularly good at getting them either. 20th in SCF60, 12th in HDCF60. But they were absolutely brutal at finishing whatever few chances they could get.

25th in HDSH%, and 14th in SCSH%.

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07-13-2017, 05:39 PM
  #92
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What I will say about Corsi is that last summer it was the number 1 topic on this board. Everything was Corsi. PK is great look at Corsi. MT sucks look at Corsi. Habs can never win a cup look at Corsi.

Since habs have become one of the better Corsi teams it seems to have completely dropped off as a topic of discussion. Its barely even mentioned at all. Its interesting because Corsi was revered around here.

Bold prediction if habs bottom out on Corsi this season you will see tons of post about Corsi. If habs are at the top (which most CJ teams are) you will not see anyone mention Corsi.
I'd hope that discussions of corsi bottom out because we have stats available to us that better correlate to wins than corsi now. It should still be part of the conversation, but it isn't 2010 anymore.

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07-13-2017, 05:47 PM
  #93
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He could of walked into the Pens or Washington. He could of walked into TOR from last year or EDM when PC did. Those are way better situations. Walking onto a team that was barely making the playoffs so no high draft picks. Also he walked onto a team with Gomez and Kabrle's horrible contracts. Markov was a question mark if he could actually be healthy enough to play again.

The only reason why I bring up the record is to show that MB didn't walk onto a team that was 1 step away from the cup. Total revisionist history to pretend that after 08 (team finished 3rd and was looking up) that this was a powerhouse team and a great situation to walk into. I don't doubt if we pull up posts from 09/10/11 we will see tons of complaints about how horrible the team is, how they are going nohwere, bounced from the 1st round, missing the playoffs. Gauthier & Gainey suck, Jacques Martin sucks, defense sucks, were too small, Gomez sucks, Spacek sucks, Campoli sucks. Bourque sucks, Halak is better than Price etc... Its really ironic that people are trying to pass off those teams as good teams. Yup I am sure most people couldn't tell the difference between the habs and the Wings/Pens/Bruins/Chicago back then either. I
You don't walk into the pens because they are a well built team already. Thats the point, this is about the best any rookie manager can get, lou REBUILT toronto, not like he was getting what we had.

What do you call getting 3rd overall pick? Besides I don't get it, you keep saying the team he inherited sucked, if they sucked so bad how come they didn't have better draft picks(oh right blame goat, gainey, savard, houle) 6 YEARS now and he is worse than what he started with. If we sucked so bad back then how come the team is worse now then in 2013? Your defence of MB is like a black hole collapsing in upon itself.

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07-13-2017, 05:56 PM
  #94
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You don't walk into the pens because they are a well built team already. Thats the point, this is about the best any rookie manager can get, lou REBUILT toronto, not like he was getting what we had.

What do you call getting 3rd overall pick? Besides I don't get it, you keep saying the team he inherited sucked, if they sucked so bad how come they didn't have better draft picks(oh right blame goat, gainey, savard, houle) 6 YEARS now and he is worse than what he started with. If we sucked so bad back then how come the team is worse now then in 2013? Your defence of MB is like a black hole collapsing in upon itself.
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07-13-2017, 05:57 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
I wasn't giving him credit. I was putting out a hypothetical that if there was no buyout how much worse the team would be with Gomez and his contract on the books. It is scientifically impossible to take a team with Gomez and his contract on the books seriously.



And again I am not debating what MB did or didn't do. I know most positions and most know mine.

I am just debating that before MB came on board the habs had a good team trending in the right direction with a good roster and were close to a cup or contending.

Remove the rose colored and MB hating glasses and realize that in 09/10/11 this team was not very good, struggled to make the playoffs and had a small/weak roster with a bad defence.

I highly doubt people were talking about how great a Gomez lead habs team will be with such stalwarts like Spacek or Gill or Campoli or Kabrle on the backend are. Gio was a fun player but he was a shrimp. Max/PK/Price looked like some nice pieces but the rest of the roster stunk and that was reflected in the results it put up.

If you want to attribute the team turning around because Price/Max/PK got older so be it. If its just because Markov was finally heatlhty so be it. But before MB came on board those conditions didn't exsist and the team was bad.

Read the HF archive. I don't even need to read it to know that it will be full of Habs suck, Gomez sucks, Gio sucks, Campoli sucks, Gauthier sucks, Jacques Martin sucks, Markov is injury prone, team bounced from 1st round they suck, and on and on and on...
Revisionism at its finest, you do know in 2009-2010 GOMEZ as our 2nd line center had 59 points. 2nd on the team after Pleks with 70 points. So if that team sucked what does it say about our number 1C being a 40 point center? our 2nd C with 28 points??? Yep SOOOOO much better this amazing team that MB has constructed.

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07-13-2017, 05:58 PM
  #96
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by OnTheRun View Post
The undeniable truth is: YOU don't know why Radulov decided to sign with Dallas.
I know that. Too many were extremely quick on the default answer...Bergevin sucks and it's all his fault.

Reality is PROBABLY that Radulov wanted to stay in Montreal but he valued himself a bit too high. When Bergevin disagreed with Radulov, Rads figured it would be easy to get his long term high dollar contract on July 1. Nobody came calling at that ask.

Radulov is a proud man. He strung it out and probably took the best offer other than Montreal to "save face". The reason I say this is his conflicting comments all over the place after he signed. He flat out lied.

Anyways. **** him and it's going to be fun to watch him flame out before his contract is up.

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07-13-2017, 05:59 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
Team got better in the RS but barely finishing 14th. I guess they added in Max and PK that year. Price was a bit better too. Still had the slugs from the year before. There is no way I can take a team with Gomez as its top C seriously. And bounced in 1st round. Again people are losing their heads this year after being bounced in round 1 but its ok back then and a sign of a good team? Even if Max is healthy I don't see this team making a run
This is where I stop discussing with you. Losing to Boston was heart breaking. I was very upset that night. With Subban tying game 7 in the dying seconds, I thought the Habs had all the momentum. This was an amazing back and forth series.

You are comparing Boston in 10-11 to the Rangers in 16-17? Well if that wasn't your intention, you did. Boston went on to win the Cup, Rangers were stifled by the Sens in 6 games, where the MVP of the previous series, didn't even look Lundqvist good, he looked down right bad in half of those games.

If you think for a second that this team was their regular season record... you are just pushing your silly division title argument.

Even worse, you think Max Pacioretty, a player on fire before his injury, would have had no effect on this series? He played the Bruins so well that year, 4g and 6pts in 3 games against them.

You refuse to see what actually happened with the Habs team and insert your own "standings" narrative. Worst of all you value these standings in thinking that MB is doing a good job, progress right? Well the players on this roster aren't progressing, regardless of the standings.

Keep paying homage to the standings, I will actually watch the hockey games and see why the team is performing well or struggling.

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07-13-2017, 06:00 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
There's only a handful of things that are certain every day,

The Sun will rise, the Sun will set, the Bergevites will defend aimlessly.
Do we now call you a hater and drag the conversation deeper in the ditch?

Or do we understand that not everyone sees things the exact same way as you?

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07-13-2017, 06:00 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
Read the HF archive. I don't even need to read it to know that it will be full of Habs suck, Gomez sucks, Gio sucks, Campoli sucks, Gauthier sucks, Jacques Martin sucks, Markov is injury prone, team bounced from 1st round they suck, and on and on and on...
Gomez didn't suck in 2010. Gionta never sucked. Campoli sucked. The Ghost was always disliked. Martin was disliked for defensive play (like uhhhhh) and Markov being injured was exactly why the team struggled in the regular season. That and Price was still raw.

But 2011, Habs finished sixth, were 2nd in northeast only two wins behind Boston (lacked the OTL points) and were one goal away from the second round despite Pacioretty wrapped around a stanchion. Nobody was saying they sucked. Everyone was screaming conspiracy and how karma doesn't exist.

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07-13-2017, 06:01 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by scrubadam View Post
What I will say about Corsi is that last summer it was the number 1 topic on this board. Everything was Corsi. PK is great look at Corsi. MT sucks look at Corsi. Habs can never win a cup look at Corsi.

Since habs have become one of the better Corsi teams it seems to have completely dropped off as a topic of discussion. Its barely even mentioned at all. Its interesting because Corsi was revered around here.

Bold prediction if habs bottom out on Corsi this season you will see tons of post about Corsi. If habs are at the top (which most CJ teams are) you will not see anyone mention Corsi.
Spot on and nailed it.

Narrative. It changes when reality does.

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