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Ference retires.

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Old
07-14-2017, 11:11 AM
  #26
Jek McPorkins
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Originally Posted by Bangers View Post
I agree with you wholeheartedly about Moreau and how he was an excellent person off the ice.

I think the hatred he gets is because of how it was viewed that he was divisive in the locker room (although time has proven that maybe he wasn't in the wrong, with how craptastic 'HOPE' turned out to be and how bad Oilers management was at the time).

He was nothing like Corson, who was a complete and utter ****** bag on and off the ice.
Good post. I'll eat some crow on this one. Optics sure suggested that the kids were overburdened and the vets were trying to put them in their place, but after hearing about some of the Hall stuff, guys like Staios, Moreau and even Belanger deserve a general apology. Things sure seemed to go in the crapper after Smith & Smyth left.

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07-14-2017, 11:36 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jek McPorkins View Post
Good post. I'll eat some crow on this one. Optics sure suggested that the kids were overburdened and the vets were trying to put them in their place, but after hearing about some of the Hall stuff, guys like Staios, Moreau and even Belanger deserve a general apology. Things sure seemed to go in the crapper after Smith & Smyth left.
Much like Ethan Moreau, Steve staios never played a game with Hall and that group of players. The supposed "rift" those vets had with youngsters on the team was the Gagner and Cogliano group.

Its such an interesting phenomenon seeing multiple people state the same thing when none of it actually happened. Kudos to shoop for realizing he was mistaken.

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Old
07-14-2017, 12:53 PM
  #28
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obviously not a great tenure of captaincy here because of factors beyond his control.

i think a pretty beyond average career for ference. LATE draft pick, very undersized for that moment in time. Came in at perhaps the best time he could have come into the league when it was transitioning from hulking, grabby d-men to smaller, mobile and more cerebral style. got his break on a power play unit with the likes of lemieux, jarg, et al.

played a smart, efficient game at his prime. and brought character and showed up to important games. i heard that "he never stayed down on the ice" once his career. wrap your heads around that for a minute.. players these days stay from blocked shots that aren't injuring. stanley cup, world junior silver and memorial cup gold.

near the beginning or ahead of the curve with regards to the elite physical fitness we see as the standard now. remember that video of him running up a dry river like rocky? the quintessential cross fit athlete.

spearheaded the NHL green program and carbon offsets program which, whether they seem inconsequential or not, shows that the player transcends the literal game of hockey. much more substantiative than the stereotypical hockey player.

i think his most lasting contribution to hockey history will be when he gave the middle finger to the habs. i have a feeling that will live on for a long time.

great guy, pretty great career, excited that he's choosing to stay in edmonton (what many UFAs say but don't do). could see him in local politics one day.

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07-14-2017, 12:55 PM
  #29
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He's a good guy, went to Jr High with him lol, wish I could be retiring already
Best of luck to him in the future.

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07-14-2017, 01:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Much like Ethan Moreau, Steve staios never played a game with Hall and that group of players. The supposed "rift" those vets had with youngsters on the team was the Gagner and Cogliano group.

Its such an interesting phenomenon seeing multiple people state the same thing when none of it actually happened. Kudos to shoop for realizing he was mistaken.
Damn, I guess the years of suckitude all melded into one in my mind. Still, Moreau was a guy who went above and beyond what was expected as a member of the community.

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07-14-2017, 01:13 PM
  #31
Jek McPorkins
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Much like Ethan Moreau, Steve staios never played a game with Hall and that group of players. The supposed "rift" those vets had with youngsters on the team was the Gagner and Cogliano group.

Its such an interesting phenomenon seeing multiple people state the same thing when none of it actually happened. Kudos to shoop for realizing he was mistaken.
Oops. Thanks for the correction. The problem preceded the arrival of the #1s. My bad.

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Old
07-14-2017, 02:48 PM
  #32
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Great guy in the community and honestly not a terrible hockey player when he first signed with us. He just was asked to do way, waaaaaay too much by the worst management/coaching team in the NHL.

Immediately inking him as captain is a move you do when you trade for a star... Not a 4-5 dman. And to Ference's credit I also noticed him trying to grow his game to fill team needs (e.g. He started to shoot way more as time went on). Too bad time took its toll so fast and his play fell off a cliff.

It's kind of amusing seeing the official retirement when everyone's known he's been done for years now though. Wonder if we see a Pronged retirement announcement eventually? AFTER his HHOF induction?

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:24 PM
  #33
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Great guy in the community and honestly not a terrible hockey player when he first signed with us. He just was asked to do way, waaaaaay too much by the worst management/coaching team in the NHL.

Immediately inking him as captain is a move you do when you trade for a star... Not a 4-5 dman. And to Ference's credit I also noticed him trying to grow his game to fill team needs (e.g. He started to shoot way more as time went on). Too bad time took its toll so fast and his play fell off a cliff.

It's kind of amusing seeing the official retirement when everyone's known he's been done for years now though. Wonder if we see a Pronged retirement announcement eventually? AFTER his HHOF induction?
Pronger?

He was inducted into the HHOF in 2015. His contract did end this past summer, so he's officially retired now. I think he took a job with the Panthers?

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Old
07-14-2017, 03:32 PM
  #34
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Pronger?

He was inducted into the HHOF in 2015. His contract did end this past summer, so he's officially retired now. I think he took a job with the Panthers?
I guess bolded answers my question, as I never saw any fanfare about the ending of his actual contract. It was more a comment on the ridiculousness of LTIR 'retirements' across the NHL. Being inducted into the HHOF while still on a team's payroll is just silly to me.

Google tells me that yes, he is with the Panthers as "Senior Advisor to the President of Hockey Operations"

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Old
07-14-2017, 04:14 PM
  #35
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Was awesome in the community. He was also solid enough his first year. Shame his game tailed off so fast, injuries really caught up to him.
Ya he gave us one good year and one serviceable year. He just broke down faster than expected. I wish him nothing but the best, and would hope he gets involved in the PR side of things for us

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Old
07-14-2017, 04:41 PM
  #36
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Really? Corson and Moreau would like a word.
Horcoff and Mac T, too.

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Old
07-14-2017, 06:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Its such an interesting phenomenon seeing multiple people state the same thing when none of it actually happened. Kudos to shoop for realizing he was mistaken.
Thanks. I misremember sometimes and am not ashamed to admit it.

Moreau was captain for three years, really 2 1/2 because he was hurt for half that first season. The Oilers were a decent team those first two years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Horcoff and Mac T, too.
I don't think Horcs was a bad captain. Why do you think that?

People are confusing MacT the terrible GM with MacT the very solid bottom six centre on the Oilers for 8 1/2 years. MacT was a decent contributor as a player and captain, a good coach and a horrible GM.

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great guy, pretty great career, excited that he's choosing to stay in edmonton (what many UFAs say but don't do). could see him in local politics one day.
He grew up in St. Albert and has family here. That's why he signed with the Oilers and why he is staying.

Of course you can see him in politics one day. That is the biggest problem with his tenure as captain. He was far more concerned about building his public brand than about playing winning hockey. All in the name of getting ready for a political run in the future. Too much focus on building a public profile and too little on hockey.


Last edited by shoop: 07-14-2017 at 07:00 PM.
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Old
07-14-2017, 07:48 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
Thanks. I misremember sometimes and am not ashamed to admit it.

Moreau was captain for three years, really 2 1/2 because he was hurt for half that first season. The Oilers were a decent team those first two years.



I don't think Horcs was a bad captain. Why do you think that?

People are confusing MacT the terrible GM with MacT the very solid bottom six centre on the Oilers for 8 1/2 years. MacT was a decent contributor as a player and captain, a good coach and a horrible GM.
Horcoff was a bad captain because he led the culture of entitlement and taught the kids it was okay to cash pay checks and lose. That seems to have been the only thing those guys learned from him, that and avoiding accountability. The only passion we saw from him his last several seasons here was during the lockout when he was worried he was going to lose some of his money. He was a horrible mentor for the kids as his game had "I don't give a crap" all over it from the time the kids arrived until he was finally traded. I saw an awful lot of him in Eberle's demeanor the last two seasons.

Perhaps I went too far saying Mactavish was a bad captain. I've just gotten so sick over the years hearing about how he was a good one. He was meh at best. No scandals like some of the others but his two year captaincy run coincided with the two worst seasons in team history outside of the decade of darkness.

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Old
07-14-2017, 08:31 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Horcoff was a bad captain because he led the culture of entitlement and taught the kids it was okay to cash pay checks and lose. That seems to have been the only thing those guys learned from him, that and avoiding accountability. The only passion we saw from him his last several seasons here was during the lockout when he was worried he was going to lose some of his money. He was a horrible mentor for the kids as his game had "I don't give a crap" all over it from the time the kids arrived until he was finally traded. I saw an awful lot of him in Eberle's demeanor the last two seasons.

Perhaps I went too far saying Mactavish was a bad captain. I've just gotten so sick over the years hearing about how he was a good one. He was meh at best. No scandals like some of the others but his two year captaincy run coincided with the two worst seasons in team history outside of the decade of darkness.
Either you are going to judge a guy by bad teams or not. If you are going to judge MacT by those terrible two years than it's reasonable to recognize Horcoff was captain during the 'best' two years of the dark times, 2011-12 and 2012-13. The team was trending up and firing Renney then Krueger was dumb.

MacT's team his first year as captain was the end of the fire sale. He held it together a little. Damphousse for Corson and garbage. KLowe for garbage. Nicholls for Ziger. Muni for garbage. Tikkanen for Weight was the only good trade for the Oilers that season.

Neither MacT or Horcoff were known for stupid off-ice distractions that hurt the team.

Corson was the poster child for off-ice idiocy. Fighting with Jason Arnott over the awarding of an assist?!

Ference's off-ice distractions weren't a pr nightmare. Still were distractions.

You want a captain who you hear very little about. A quiet locker room with no moaning and no incidents with the young kids on the team getting into trouble.

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Old
07-14-2017, 08:51 PM
  #40
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Ference wasn't a bad captain as much as he was captain of a bad team.

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Old
07-14-2017, 10:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
Either you are going to judge a guy by bad teams or not. If you are going to judge MacT by those terrible two years than it's reasonable to recognize Horcoff was captain during the 'best' two years of the dark times, 2011-12 and 2012-13. The team was trending up and firing Renney then Krueger was dumb.

MacT's team his first year as captain was the end of the fire sale. He held it together a little. Damphousse for Corson and garbage. KLowe for garbage. Nicholls for Ziger. Muni for garbage. Tikkanen for Weight was the only good trade for the Oilers that season.

Neither MacT or Horcoff were known for stupid off-ice distractions that hurt the team.

Corson was the poster child for off-ice idiocy. Fighting with Jason Arnott over the awarding of an assist?!

Ference's off-ice distractions weren't a pr nightmare. Still were distractions.

You want a captain who you hear very little about. A quiet locker room with no moaning and no incidents with the young kids on the team getting into trouble.
You don't think the core of young kids learned a lot of bad habits from Horcoff? The Horcoff that everyone loved from the 2006 cup run was long gone by the time Hall, Eberle and Nuge showed up here. The guy they were learning from was cutting corners like crazy while being paid like a super star. Worse than that, he would never take responsibility for his poor play. I acknowledge the team was bad and Tambellini was even worse than he was but that didn't mean he didn't have to work hard. We were starting a rebuild with kids that were supposed to be corner stones for the future. He was the team captain and couldn't of looked more disinterested on the ice most nights. That makes him the worst team captain imo.

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Old
07-14-2017, 11:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
You don't think the core of young kids learned a lot of bad habits from Horcoff? The Horcoff that everyone loved from the 2006 cup run was long gone by the time Hall, Eberle and Nuge showed up here. The guy they were learning from was cutting corners like crazy while being paid like a super star. Worse than that, he would never take responsibility for his poor play. I acknowledge the team was bad and Tambellini was even worse than he was but that didn't mean he didn't have to work hard. We were starting a rebuild with kids that were supposed to be corner stones for the future. He was the team captain and couldn't of looked more disinterested on the ice most nights. That makes him the worst team captain imo.
I actually don't think the kids regressed with Horcoff as captain. Looking at a number of the failed core they progressed with Horcoff as captain.

The Oilers improved over the three seasons Horcoff was captain.

Hall took a huge leap after the first season Horcoff was captain, his best season as an Oiler was the year after Horcoff left. Eberle's best season as an Oiler was with Horcoff as captain. Jultz's best season as an Oiler was with Horcoff as captain.

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07-15-2017, 01:07 AM
  #43
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You don't think the core of young kids learned a lot of bad habits from Horcoff? The Horcoff that everyone loved from the 2006 cup run was long gone by the time Hall, Eberle and Nuge showed up here. The guy they were learning from was cutting corners like crazy while being paid like a super star. Worse than that, he would never take responsibility for his poor play. I acknowledge the team was bad and Tambellini was even worse than he was but that didn't mean he didn't have to work hard. We were starting a rebuild with kids that were supposed to be corner stones for the future. He was the team captain and couldn't of looked more disinterested on the ice most nights. That makes him the worst team captain imo.
What do you mean specifically? he did get caught using performance enhacing drugs in the end, but it was not with the Oilers.

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07-15-2017, 01:08 AM
  #44
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The kids seemed to learn how to deflect criticism well. Maybe not Hall so much but Eberle has very Horcoff-like interviews now that he didn't before.

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07-15-2017, 11:06 AM
  #45
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What do you mean specifically? he did get caught using performance enhacing drugs in the end, but it was not with the Oilers.
I was referring to his effort in games his last few seasons here. Getting caught using the performance enhancing drugs in Anaheim did speak volumes about his overall character though.

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07-15-2017, 11:07 AM
  #46
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The kids seemed to learn how to deflect criticism well. Maybe not Hall so much but Eberle has very Horcoff-like interviews now that he didn't before.
Yes, this is what I was referring to.

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Old
07-15-2017, 12:23 PM
  #47
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Always liked the guy. Thanks for everything you've done for us Andrew!

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07-15-2017, 04:36 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
You don't think the core of young kids learned a lot of bad habits from Horcoff? The Horcoff that everyone loved from the 2006 cup run was long gone by the time Hall, Eberle and Nuge showed up here. The guy they were learning from was cutting corners like crazy while being paid like a super star. Worse than that, he would never take responsibility for his poor play. I acknowledge the team was bad and Tambellini was even worse than he was but that didn't mean he didn't have to work hard. We were starting a rebuild with kids that were supposed to be corner stones for the future. He was the team captain and couldn't of looked more disinterested on the ice most nights. That makes him the worst team captain imo.
Horcoff always gave great effort. His hands abandoned him in his 30's, but he was always a guy that relied on playing with more talented players to get his points.

Horcoff's only "mistake" was signing a big contract that he couldn't live up to.

I'm sure he's gotten over that "mistake'. Some Oilers fans sure haven't though.

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07-15-2017, 05:21 PM
  #49
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Meh. Made 28 million for sub par performance. Sucked as a captan was Eakins right hand man. Was terrible vet to for our young stars.

Hopefully does not get a joke with Oilers org but with this franchise I am sure he will.

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07-15-2017, 07:09 PM
  #50
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Meh. Made 28 million for sub par performance. Sucked as a captan was Eakins right hand man. Was terrible vet to for our young stars.

Hopefully does not get a joke with Oilers org but with this franchise I am sure he will.
Yup. Assuming the bold was meant to be job, but you're right, that would be a joke.

Interesting to see all the love for Ference for being a 'good guy'. Like that matters in hockey. I wonder if any of the guys fans have run out of town for not playing to their potential were 'good guys' off the ice. I bet Gryba and Russell are 'good guys' too ... lets see how much love they get on the board this season. Maybe they should start making some pc tweets to proactively get the fans on their side.

I can respect that Ference has a long career and some years when he was a good defenseman. Unfortunately we never saw more than a dozen or so games of that player in Edmonton. While playing for the Oil he was borderline useless on most nights, never came close to living up to his contract, and was in no way deserving of the C.

Surely a lot of that is on management, but Ference was a big Eakins man so that's another strike against him imo. I'm delighted to see the tail end of this player.
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I was referring to his effort in games his last few seasons here. Getting caught using the performance enhancing drugs in Anaheim did speak volumes about his overall character though.
Horcoff was the king of the bad post game interview. He may not have thrown guys under the bus like Moreau did, but he sure as hell never took much responsibility himself. Just a bunch of nose stroking platitudes with that guy. I got the impression he was more concerned with his role as NHLPA big shot than his duty to mentor a bunch of high draft pick kids. imo Horcoff is a huge reason why some of the younger players learned to get by doing the minimum. Stay healthy and cash those checks. Totally agree with the bold as well.
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Much like Ethan Moreau, Steve staios never played a game with Hall and that group of players. The supposed "rift" those vets had with youngsters on the team was the Gagner and Cogliano group.
And really, Gagner and Cogliano don't strike me as the kind of individuals that would lip off vets or be difficult to get along with.
Lets not forget that the infamous 'bar tab' incident happened on Moreau's watch.
Its not always the case that the 'kids' are the problem.

Honestly, this team has had a bunch of terrible captains over the last decade.

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