HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Karl Alzner

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-14-2017, 02:24 PM
  #76
Peanut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,194
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Wolverine View Post


Blown past is probably not the right words, since its rare to see that happen to any D. More that he gets pushed back. He doesn't suppress shots against to any great degree and he bleeds shot from the crease area.

Every D in the NHL can move his feet and knows how to skate. That's moved from the average to the bare minimum. That's not good enough anymore.

damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

Peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:27 PM
  #77
Chris Cutter
Devil's Advocate
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sherbrooke
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Wolverine View Post
Yes he has. He lost his mobility (such that it was). He was better defensively when he came into the league. But his game fell off right around his age 29 season (in part due to injury).

Name me the defensive defensemen in the league right now, preferably with comparable footspeed, that are in their primes in the age range you provided. How many are even decent middle pair guys?
Oduya, McQuaid, K. Miller, Scuderi, M. Greene, J. Smith?, Methot, A. Ward? are some names that pop to mind.

Chris Cutter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:31 PM
  #78
Victorius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,106
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

The guy was injured last season. Give him a break. He was a solid d-man for washington for years.

He will be perfect on the second pairing with Petry.

Victorius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:32 PM
  #79
Drew4u
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 979
vCash: 500
He's pretty much Girardi 2.0. Can't skate, terrible puck mover, and is a possession blackhole. Blocking shots does not mean you're good devensively!!

Drew4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:35 PM
  #80
Victorius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,106
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew4u View Post
He's pretty much Girardi 2.0. Can't skate, terrible puck mover, and is a possession blackhole. Blocking shots does not mean you're good devensively!!
Can we wait and see ?

Victorius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:38 PM
  #81
Belial
Registered User
 
Belial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montreal
Posts: 8,595
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

Belial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:41 PM
  #82
Peanut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,194
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
Thank you, holy crap Orlov is good!

Peanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:42 PM
  #83
Captain Wolverine
Registered User
 
Captain Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Oduya, McQuaid, K. Miller, Scuderi, M. Greene, J. Smith?, Methot, A. Ward? are some names that pop to mind.
That's kinda what concerns me, especially with Alzner's cap hit.

Captain Wolverine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 02:45 PM
  #84
Runner77
******************
 
Runner77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,311
vCash: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
You mean just like this management has a pro scouting department and information on who's available and what the asking price is?
Maybe you know better than them.

It's not just the intel you have access to, it's what you do with it.

Quote:
Washington is in cap hell, they didn't let Alzner go because he sucks but because they don't have the cap space to keep the guy.

Panic move? Come on, he signed Jerabek months ago and the Beaulieu trade was just a matter of time.

If he was afraid of losing Emelin he would've made a deal with GMGM to keep the guy.

If Bergevin was in panic mode Markov would've been already signed at 6Mx2 and Radulov would've got a blank cheque.

I don't feel any panic whatsoever...

They had Alzner on their radar the whole way IMO and this was not a knee jerk signing.
So to you, it's normal to go into an off season with your full LHD corps gutted out? Interesting. You should try free style rock climbing. See the Other Sports thread for tips.

Good point about Washington's cap situation. Then, look at the market. How many teams were willing to grant 5 years to Alzner? How many were willing to outbid the Habs?

Can we stop it with Jerabek already? He's a project, he may or may not make the team. He's a wild card, he's never played in the NHL. Let's wait and see, he's no sure thing.

The Beaulieu trade was a matter of time, but it became a matter of bad timing. I don't care for Emelin, however, that 3rd expansion protection slot had to belong to a LHD. Or prior to the expansion draft, a better strategy would have been to make a deal with GMGM to not select any LHDs or a particular player who would be less detrimental. I know, 20-20.

There wasn't the same sense of urgency with Radulov as Bergevin had hedged his bets by trading for Drouin. Why else did Bergevin come off as a brash oaf playing hardball with Radulov?

Same with Markov, Bergevin had signed other LHDs by that time, so he now feels confident that he doesn't have to pay for that second year Markov wants.

Alzner was signed on account of shortcomings that Bergevin manufactured for himself. It's like someone putting his house on fire and then trying to put it off with a garden hose and showing the neighbors that he's some kind of hero. You're the neighbor who interrupts Bergevin's hosing by asking for an autograph.

Runner77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 10:49 PM
  #85
Belial
Registered User
 
Belial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montreal
Posts: 8,595
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Maybe you know better than them.

It's not just the intel you have access to, it's what you do with it.
I get it, you don't trust those guys at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
So to you, it's normal to go into an off season with your full LHD corps gutted out? Interesting. You should try free style rock climbing. See the Other Sports thread for tips.
We lost Beaulieu and Emelin for god sake, 90% of this board crapped on those guys every second game and wanted them traded for a bag of pucks!

Now you're trying to paint this situation like we lost Bobby Orr and Ray Bourque.

Alzner+Schlemko>Emelin+Beaulieu!

Why are you making a drama out of this?

Markov is still out there he might still be back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Good point about Washington's cap situation. Then, look at the market. How many teams were willing to grant 5 years to Alzner? How many were willing to outbid the Habs?
It was reported that Alzner was quite coveted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
The Beaulieu trade was a matter of time, but it became a matter of bad timing. I don't care for Emelin, however, that 3rd expansion protection slot had to belong to a LHD. Or prior to the expansion draft, a better strategy would have been to make a deal with GMGM to not select any LHDs or a particular player who would be less detrimental. I know, 20-20.
Again, I could care less about those guys. We didn't lose some amazing irreplaceable players.

Benn is actually an LHD.

We have Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson, Benn, Jerabek, and Morrow on the left side!

And we still might resign Markov.

I don't get the panic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
There wasn't the same sense of urgency with Radulov as Bergevin had hedged his bets by trading for Drouin. Why else did Bergevin come off as a brash oaf playing hardball with Radulov?
Bergevin offered him a great deal, what hardball?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Same with Markov, Bergevin had signed other LHDs by that time, so he now feels confident that he doesn't have to pay for that second year Markov wants.
It's amazing how you always position yourself against management...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Alzner was signed on account of shortcomings that Bergevin manufactured for himself. It's like someone putting his house on fire and then trying to put it off with a garden hose and showing the neighbors that he's some kind of hero. You're the neighbor who interrupts Bergevin's hosing by asking for an autograph.
As I said, I think they planned to sign Alzner no matter the circumstances.

Belial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2017, 10:56 PM
  #86
SouthernHab
Go Habs Go!
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Wolverine View Post


Blown past is probably not the right words, since its rare to see that happen to any D. More that he gets pushed back. He doesn't suppress shots against to any great degree and he bleeds shot from the crease area.

Every D in the NHL can move his feet and knows how to skate. That's moved from the average to the bare minimum. That's not good enough anymore.
Was Alzner the only player on the ice?

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2017, 01:07 AM
  #87
HabsFanJosh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 256
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Was Alzner the only player on the ice?
No, he played with John Carlson 53% of the time and his looks just as bad, if not worse

HabsFanJosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2017, 01:12 AM
  #88
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 7,350
vCash: 500
Lots of interest in Alzner.

Lots of interest last year in Kris Russell.

Lots of interest in Mike Komisarek when he became a free agent.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2017, 01:51 AM
  #89
One Less Louise
Dale Weise it !
 
One Less Louise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 24,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Yeah, because everyone was saying after the Rangers loss that what the Habs needed wasn't scoring but better defence.
We needed a better goal differential. Believe it or not some teams have won playoffs series scoring fewer goals than we did against the NYR. Obviously the bigger and easier improvement to make is by boosting offense but if Emelin/Markov/Beaulieu don't make mistakes left and right... perhaps we win against NYR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Lots of interest in Alzner.

Lots of interest last year in Kris Russell.

Lots of interest in Mike Komisarek when he became a free agent.
And it appears the interest was justified since oilers were happy enough with getting Russell that they went for a second helping at 16M/4 years.

Not sure what Russell is doing in this argument though.

One Less Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2017, 09:51 AM
  #90
Runner77
******************
 
Runner77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,311
vCash: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post
I get it, you don't trust those guys at all.
Never said that. Next.

Quote:
We lost Beaulieu and Emelin for god sake, 90% of this board crapped on those guys every second game and wanted them traded for a bag of pucks!

Now you're trying to paint this situation like we lost Bobby Orr and Ray Bourque.
Never said that. Next.

Quote:
Alzner+Schlemko>Emelin+Beaulieu!
Apples and oranges. Emelin expiring contract. Alzner 5 years for a defensive defenceman, not a need. Alzners can easily be drafted and developed, not worth buying into at age 28 when you can have them during their cost-controlled years when they are at their best.

Quote:
Why are you making a drama out of this?
You're inventing a situation that doesn't exist. I thought we were having a discussion, an exchange of ideas. You seem to want to be a ventriloquist and you're looking for posters to act as your puppet.

Quote:
Markov is still out there he might still be back.
I've made that caveat in several other posts. Next.

Quote:
It was reported that Alzner was quite coveted.
Could be. But, did we really need to invest 5 years in the type of D he is? Remind me why we lost against the Rangers in the playoffs. That's it, too much scoring from our D.

Quote:
Again, I could care less about those guys. We didn't lose some amazing irreplaceable players.
Not the point, next.

Quote:
Benn is actually an LHD.
He's on record as preferring to play the right side.

Quote:
We have Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson, Benn, Jerabek, and Morrow on the left side!
Our D is mostly an aging, slow contingent.

Quote:
And we still might resign Markov.
You said that already in this post ...

Quote:
I don't get the panic...
Who is panicking? I thought we were having a discussion. We just see things differently.

Quote:
Bergevin offered him a great deal, what hardball?
The presser at which Bergevin issued public ultimatums to both Radulov and Markov.

Quote:
It's amazing how you always position yourself against management...
You really are looking for a puppet. Those ventriloquism aspirations are starting on the wrong foot.

How about not ascribing to others, thoughts and circumstances that were never intended.

Enjoy Alzner.

Runner77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 07:22 PM
  #91
Devourers
Registered User
 
Devourers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,990
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Since 2013, 91 defencemen have played 300 games.

When ranking them in even strength points, Karl Alzner is #62 with 75 points in 376 games. For comparison, Alexei Emelin was #76 with 62 points in 313 games.

Alzner: 0.199
Emelin: 0.198

Huge improvement.
So what you're telling me is that technically he is better than Emelin offensively. Well, that makes me feel a lot better considering I felt Emelin was a bit of a pylon defensively and had very poor decision making skills with the puck in his own zone. It's clearly an improvement because we got a guy who puts up the same kind of offense with way better defense.

Also Belial, you claim others always position themselves against management. Look in the mirror sometime, you're equally as hypocritical in reverse. Some might even think you're MB's actual son you're so pro management.


Last edited by Devourers: 07-16-2017 at 07:28 PM.
Devourers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 07:25 PM
  #92
Uncle Gary
Habs/Preds
 
Uncle Gary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Fire Bergevin
Posts: 3,288
vCash: 500
Habs are paying close to $15 million next season for Alzner, Shaw and Plekanec. Overpay talentless players on a team that can't score. Sounds like a good way to win a cup to me.

Uncle Gary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 07:36 PM
  #93
Runner77
******************
 
Runner77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,311
vCash: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Gary View Post
Habs are paying close to $15 million next season for Alzner, Shaw and Plekanec. Overpay talentless players on a team that can't score. Sounds like a good way to win a cup to me.
A defensive defenceman, a third liner who puts up low points and who plays a style that his body can't handle and a once good two-way player who fell off a cliff and is raking $6 Million for providing bottom liner production. This is the crater that never seems to go away under Bergevin's regime. Only the names have changed. Look back on his 5 years and you'll find similar gross overpayments to underachievers and bottom feeder types. Shades of who Bergevin used to be as a player.

Runner77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 10:50 PM
  #94
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 7,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devourers View Post
So what you're telling me is that technically he is better than Emelin offensively.
Yes. By 0.01.

Montreal found it necessary to replace Emelin and did it with a guy that did 75 ES points in 376 games with the Washington Capitals. Who will now play with the Habs offence. For five years.

What Montreal needed was a Beaulieu replacement that played better defence. A 30+ point guy that could carry the puck. Instead they decided to try going sideways. Now they are crossing their fingers on Schlemko or Jerabek being offensive dynamos to replace Markov and Beaulieu.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 11:02 PM
  #95
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 19,309
vCash: 612
To be fair, Schlemko does produce at a 25 point per season pace, so he can definitely replace Beaulieu. The issue is Markov.

I don't know why people bring up Beaulieu like he was some kind of huge loss. He's in this Eller realm of fans continuously waiting for an offensive break out that's not going to happen. He is what he is. It's because of limited IQ in both cases.

le_sean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2017, 11:45 PM
  #96
DramaticGloveSave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
A defensive defenceman, a third liner who puts up low points and who plays a style that his body can't handle and a once good two-way player who fell off a cliff and is raking $6 Million for providing bottom liner production. This is the crater that never seems to go away under Bergevin's regime. Only the names have changed. Look back on his 5 years and you'll find similar gross overpayments to underachievers and bottom feeder types. Shades of who Bergevin used to be as a player.
When has cap issues ever hurt us? Even Radulov came down to term.

And it's quite ironic to complain about plekanecs 6 million next year when being annoyed about not signing Radulov.

DramaticGloveSave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 12:16 AM
  #97
Runner77
******************
 
Runner77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,311
vCash: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by DramaticGloveSave View Post
When has cap issues ever hurt us? Even Radulov came down to term.
Yeah, that's a reason to squander cap space. Nicely played.

Quote:
And it's quite ironic to complain about plekanecs 6 million next year when being annoyed about not signing Radulov.
Another false equivalency. Plekanec's performance has completely cratered. What does he have to do with a productive player like Radulov who unlike many Habs, actually showed up in the playoffs? So Plekanec is your attempt to ridicule a first line player who signed elsewhere. Sure.

Runner77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 12:45 AM
  #98
Habssince89
Drouin alright
 
Habssince89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,781
vCash: 351
Alzner-Petry will be a fan favourite this season.

Habssince89 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 03:59 AM
  #99
G0bias
Registered User
 
G0bias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habssince89 View Post
Alzner-Petry will be a fan favourite this season.
For which team?

G0bias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2017, 05:02 AM
  #100
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Was Alzner the only player on the ice?


Here is the Washington Capital's shot's against heat map relative to league average without Karl Alzner.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.