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Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: The X Factor

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Old
07-14-2017, 10:19 AM
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Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: The X Factor

"The hell with inexperience". TSN's Craig Button has a say about Jesse in Edmonton Journal:

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/ho...-button-argues

And Ray Ferraro's view:

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/ho...-the-next-drai


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07-16-2017, 12:27 AM
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The reason that I called him "The X Factor" is that he has the potential to make the largest new contribution to the team as a "new" player. If he steps in and adds 20-30-50 or close to those numbers, we could be going places next season.

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07-16-2017, 01:30 AM
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Isn't this part V?

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07-16-2017, 01:39 AM
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The reason that I called him "The X Factor" is that he has the potential to make the largest new contribution to the team as a "new" player. If he steps in and adds 20-30-50 or close to those numbers, we could be going places next season.
20G 30A 50P would be a hell of a season for him after the year he had last year. I wonder if we're being biased a bit by Draisaitl having such a remarkable improvement from his rookie year to his second year. I'm not sure such a leap forward in development like that happens all that often.

Just for comparisons sake, Mikko Rantanen in his draft+1 year absolutely destroyed the AHL. 60 points in 52 games. A much more impressive season than Pulju's decent but unspectacular 28 in 39. Rantanen spent the bulk of his time this past season on the first line with MacKinnon and only managed 39 points.

Anything is possible of course, but I can't help but think that Pulju is both unlikely to get the type of opportunity Rantanen got this year and so far hasn't demonstrated to be a better prospect than Rantanen was coming out of his draft+1 year.

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07-16-2017, 03:38 AM
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Isn't this part V?
Indeed, it is.

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20G 30A 50P would be a hell of a season for him after the year he had last year. I wonder if we're being biased a bit by Draisaitl having such a remarkable improvement from his rookie year to his second year. I'm not sure such a leap forward in development like that happens all that often.

Just for comparisons sake, Mikko Rantanen in his draft+1 year absolutely destroyed the AHL. 60 points in 52 games. A much more impressive season than Pulju's decent but unspectacular 28 in 39. Rantanen spent the bulk of his time this past season on the first line with MacKinnon and only managed 39 points.

Anything is possible of course, but I can't help but think that Pulju is both unlikely to get the type of opportunity Rantanen got this year and so far hasn't demonstrated to be a better prospect than Rantanen was coming out of his draft+1 year.
Rantanen wasn't rated as highly in his draft for starters, IIRC he isn't the skater that Jesse is either. Add to that our team is no longer the type of tire fire that the Avs were last year and there are numerous reasons why I could see Jesse taking a big step this season. Naturally if he's buried on the 3rd line and gets little to no PP time then those numbers won't be reached.

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07-16-2017, 03:40 AM
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20G 30A 50P would be a hell of a season for him after the year he had last year. I wonder if we're being biased a bit by Draisaitl having such a remarkable improvement from his rookie year to his second year. I'm not sure such a leap forward in development like that happens all that often.

Just for comparisons sake, Mikko Rantanen in his draft+1 year absolutely destroyed the AHL. 60 points in 52 games. A much more impressive season than Pulju's decent but unspectacular 28 in 39. Rantanen spent the bulk of his time this past season on the first line with MacKinnon and only managed 39 points.

Anything is possible of course, but I can't help but think that Pulju is both unlikely to get the type of opportunity Rantanen got this year and so far hasn't demonstrated to be a better prospect than Rantanen was coming out of his draft+1 year.
But by age Rantanen was one year older last season than Pulju will be this season. This is really meaningful because they both started to play some games in FEL in their 16-17 old season, and since that Pulju has beat Rantanen in productivity every season when comparing their seasons at the same age.

Last season was really pretty bad for Pulju, but it should still be compared to Rantanen's final FEL season, because with those seasons their age was the same and they both had the same amount of seasons in a pro league. Pulju scored 28 points in 39 games in the AHL while Rantanen incredibly scored also 28 points, but in 56 games in FEL. Although I do think that it is a bit more difficult to score points in FEL, I would still say that Pulju's AHL season was a bit more impressive than Rantanen's last FEL season.

The worrying thing for Pulju last season was though that his skating was clearly worse than his previous season. I am seriously suspecting that he gained too much weight in a short time and also that he has been over training physically and became probably exhausted during the season. Unless he fixes his training, he might really be in danger of getting surpassed by Rantanen, as he has been already for several years been training with one of the best physical trainers in hockey. This trainer is Hannu Rautala, who also has trained Ristolainen with great results and started last season training Laine with good results.

I really wish Pulju would get his training (he needs more quality than volume in training, and he needs a lot of guidance with his training and career in general) and his English fixed, because I believe that these both issues are at the moment keeping him from developing at the pace that the other young top talents in the league are doing.


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07-16-2017, 05:33 AM
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Best player in the league having a slightly larger, right-handed, Finnish linemate with an excellent shot, enough speed to keep up, and within 1 year of age. What are the odds of that ever happening?

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07-16-2017, 09:38 AM
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20G 30A 50P would be a hell of a season for him after the year he had last year. I wonder if we're being biased a bit by Draisaitl having such a remarkable improvement from his rookie year to his second year. I'm not sure such a leap forward in development like that happens all that often.
We'll see how it goes. It's still good to remember that to reach 50 points doesn't necessarily require such a huge leap as more ice-time and maybe some PP time, in addition to natural development, could and should be enough. People often look at the game totals and count the ppg that way, but Jesse had a lot of games where he had barely no ice-time at all, which naturally affects the ppg. He had maybe a bit over 20 games where he had enough ice-time to really get something done, and IMO he didn't do too badly for an 18-year-old guy in those ones, especially after the very first games. And outside of playing with Caggiula and Pouliot (that line didn't work too well offensively) he did quite well actually.

It'll be interesting to see if he can keep (or raise) his ppg/60 with more ice-time and if he'll manage to get PP time to help him with total scores. Last year he started with a goal and then hit the posts several times, so maybe a couple of goals there could've help with his confidence and his place in the team. I hope this year he's either more ready to create free spots on his own (if playing with defensive forwards) or is given line mates that can help him with that.

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07-16-2017, 09:46 AM
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But by age Rantanen was one year older last season than Pulju will be this season. This is really meaningful because they both started to play some games in FEL in their 16-17 old season, and since that Pulju has beat Rantanen in productivity every season when comparing their seasons at the same age.

Last season was really pretty bad for Pulju, but it should still be compared to Rantanen's final FEL season, because with those seasons their age was the same and they both had the same amount of seasons in a pro league. Pulju scored 28 points in 39 games in the AHL while Rantanen incredibly scored also 28 points, but in 56 games in FEL. Although I do think that it is a bit more difficult to score points in FEL, I would still say that Pulju's AHL season was a bit more impressive than Rantanen's last FEL season.

The worrying thing for Pulju last season was though that his skating was clearly worse than his previous season. I am seriously suspecting that he gained too much weight in a short time and also that he has been over training physically and became probably exhausted during the season. Unless he fixes his training, he might really be in danger of getting surpassed by Rantanen, as he has been already for several years been training with one of the best physical trainers in hockey. This trainer is Hannu Rautala, who also has trained Ristolainen with great results and started last season training Laine with good results.

I really wish Pulju would get his training (he needs more quality than volume in training, and he needs a lot of guidance with his training and career in general) and his English fixed, because I believe that these both issues are at the moment keeping him from developing at the pace that the other young top talents in the league are doing.
This is another reason why I like the Jokinen signing. Having Puju attached to Jokinen's hip basically all season, to help him develop both on and off the ice can pay off huge for the Oilres and Puju going forward.

Also, wasn't Puju coming off surgery last season and not get an offseason to train properly? Going into the offseason healthy to train and knowing what to expect is also crucial for him. I honestly believe Puju will have a very good season for us, will get better as the season goes on and he gets more comfortable.

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07-16-2017, 09:57 AM
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I really wish Pulju would get his training (he needs more quality than volume in training, and he needs a lot of guidance with his training and career in general) and his English fixed, because I believe that these both issues are at the moment keeping him from developing at the pace that the other young top talents in the league are doing.
I agree.

It seems likely he lost some of that in the AHL and probably in the NHL as well. His English should be more or less better now, and JJ should be just the right guy to assist him. When he starts to produce more and gets better in English maybe the coaches start to give more personal guidance as well. As Oilers already have McDavid and Drai in the team Jesse doesn't get the attention he might get elsewhere in a lesser team with lower goals and no such young stars.

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07-16-2017, 10:01 AM
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He had a knee surgery last offseason, it's not that surprising that his skating/conditioning looked worse.
But now that he's healthy I hope he's training as like hell.


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20G 30A 50P would be a hell of a season for him after the year he had last year. I wonder if we're being biased a bit by Draisaitl having such a remarkable improvement from his rookie year to his second year. I'm not sure such a leap forward in development like that happens all that often.

Just for comparisons sake, Mikko Rantanen in his draft+1 year absolutely destroyed the AHL. 60 points in 52 games. A much more impressive season than Pulju's decent but unspectacular 28 in 39. Rantanen spent the bulk of his time this past season on the first line with MacKinnon and only managed 39 points.

Anything is possible of course, but I can't help but think that Pulju is both unlikely to get the type of opportunity Rantanen got this year and so far hasn't demonstrated to be a better prospect than Rantanen was coming out of his draft+1 year.
Colorado had one helluva season, Rantanen suffered from ankle injury on top of that.
He lead the team in goals still, and Pulju looked better in the NHL than Rantanen.

I saw Staples article and just again reminds how amazing it is to see these bust comments starting to come up already when talking about 18y(now 19y) European kid.
No Finn has a perfect transition from Liiga to NHL rink.

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07-16-2017, 12:31 PM
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Colorado had one helluva season, Rantanen suffered from ankle injury on top of that.
He lead the team in goals still, and Pulju looked better in the NHL than Rantanen.

I saw Staples article and just again reminds how amazing it is to see these bust comments starting to come up already when talking about 18y(now 19y) European kid.
No Finn has a perfect transition from Liiga to NHL rink.
Bust comments? I certainly didn't call him a bust. Based on what he showed last season, it's not outrageous at all to suggest he might not be ready to produce 50 points in the NHL this upcoming season.

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But by age Rantanen was one year older last season than Pulju will be this season. This is really meaningful because they both started to play some games in FEL in their 16-17 old season, and since that Pulju has beat Rantanen in productivity every season when comparing their seasons at the same age.

Last season was really pretty bad for Pulju, but it should still be compared to Rantanen's final FEL season, because with those seasons their age was the same and they both had the same amount of seasons in a pro league. Pulju scored 28 points in 39 games in the AHL while Rantanen incredibly scored also 28 points, but in 56 games in FEL. Although I do think that it is a bit more difficult to score points in FEL, I would still say that Pulju's AHL season was a bit more impressive than Rantanen's last FEL season.
So if we follow that logic, than Puljujarvi still wouldn't be putting up 50 points in the NHL this year. He'd be down in the AHL destroying the league, which doesn't seem all that unlikely.

And I'd hesitate to say this past season was terrible for Puljujarvi. He wasn't ready to play in the NHL as an 18 year old. There is absolutely no shame in that. Most players aren't ready for that and plenty end up being great players in the NHL.


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07-16-2017, 12:40 PM
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He had a knee surgery last offseason, it's not that surprising that his skating/conditioning looked worse.
But now that he's healthy I hope he's training as like hell.




Colorado had one helluva season, Rantanen suffered from ankle injury on top of that.
He lead the team in goals still, and Pulju looked better in the NHL than Rantanen.

I saw Staples article and just again reminds how amazing it is to see these bust comments starting to come up already when talking about 18y(now 19y) European kid.
No Finn has a perfect transition from Liiga to NHL rink.
Laine? I see your point though.

I'd be happy with a 35 point campaign from Puljujarvi next season. Ease him in, start him on 3rd line with Jokinen, make him earn time with McDavid/Drai.

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07-16-2017, 12:52 PM
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Laine? I see your point though.

I'd be happy with a 35 point campaign from Puljujarvi next season. Ease him in, start him on 3rd line with Jokinen, make him earn time with McDavid/Drai.
Aho, Laine, Jussi Jokinen, Ristolainen, Barkov.

That's just the current players I can think of off the top of my head. Risto got some AHL time, but most would agree he did well enough to just start and stay in the NHL in his rookie season.

35 points is a very good marker for this type of player next season.

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07-16-2017, 01:54 PM
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Aho, Laine, Jussi Jokinen, Ristolainen, Barkov.
18 yo?

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07-16-2017, 02:09 PM
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Laine? I see your point though.

I'd be happy with a 35 point campaign from Puljujarvi next season. Ease him in, start him on 3rd line with Jokinen, make him earn time with McDavid/Drai.
I would be very happy even if he gets over 30 points. Slightly disappointing if he gets less than 30 though. At least if he gets to play mostly in the NHL. My expectations are around 30-40 points for next season, and if he manages to get even more, it has been a truly wonderful season for him. Secretly I'm hoping for an explosion with over 60 points, but I have to honestly say that it is practically impossible to happen, unless he would get already loads of icetime next to McDavid.

I just really hope he has been able to fix his skating and conditioning, and also that his hopefully developed English and Jokinen's presence will give him loads of confidence compared to last season. If everything really goes ideally for Pulju, maybe even 50-60 point range wouldn't be completely impossible after all. Very interesting to see how Pulju and Edmonton as a team will be. I'm definitely expecting lots of development from both.

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07-16-2017, 02:25 PM
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I'd be happy with a 35 point campaign from Puljujarvi next season.
I would be disappointed with that, as that's basically the score he'd got this year at regular 10 minutes per game of ice time. This year he had in practise (without the few minute ones) just a bit over 20 games, so with a full season it would need to be at least about 50 points to show development. However, this also depends a lot on who he's playing with. With PP time the numbers should be somewhat more IMO.

After all, his production rate was just fine when he still got regular ice-time. At that time his ppg/60 was even top3 of the team, but with so little ice-time (and thus low total points) you can't draw strong conclusions from that. However, because of that e.g. a 50-70 point season shouldn't be a huuge surprise either if he has decent line mates and some PP time. We'll see.


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07-16-2017, 03:12 PM
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Laine? I see your point though.

I'd be happy with a 35 point campaign from Puljujarvi next season. Ease him in, start him on 3rd line with Jokinen, make him earn time with McDavid/Drai.
I'd be happy if he got 35 pts while playing a good 2-way game on the 3rd line. If he scores 35 pts and looks weak in the neutral and D zone I'm getting a bit nervous and having Yakupov flashbacks

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07-16-2017, 03:32 PM
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18 yo?
Laine - 18
Aho - 18-19
Ristolainen - 18
Barkov - 18.

Jokinen was 20.

So pretty much, yes.

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07-16-2017, 05:27 PM
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Sebastian Aho - born 26 July 1997,
Jesse Puljujarvi - born 7 May 1998.
First NHL season 2016 - 2017.
So if I'm counting right, Sebastian was 19 whole season, not 18..
Edit. Rasmus Ristolainen - born 27 October 1994, NHL debut 2 October 2013. So..


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07-16-2017, 05:32 PM
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Bust comments? I certainly didn't call him a bust. Based on what he showed last season, it's not outrageous at all to suggest he might not be ready to produce 50 points in the NHL this upcoming season.



So if we follow that logic, than Puljujarvi still wouldn't be putting up 50 points in the NHL this year. He'd be down in the AHL destroying the league, which doesn't seem all that unlikely.

And I'd hesitate to say this past season was terrible for Puljujarvi. He wasn't ready to play in the NHL as an 18 year old. There is absolutely no shame in that. Most players aren't ready for that and plenty end up being great players in the NHL.
That was more to Staples Yakupov comments.

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Laine? I see your point though.

I'd be happy with a 35 point campaign from Puljujarvi next season. Ease him in, start him on 3rd line with Jokinen, make him earn time with McDavid/Drai.
He definitely didn't have a perfect transition.
Laine was able to put up points because the moment he stepped into NHL he had one of the best shots in the league.

But his transition in neutral zone/5on5 game wasn't pretty, there were some tough streches on his game. On 2nd half/Florida trip his game started to remind of his game from Liiga.

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Aho, Laine, Jussi Jokinen, Ristolainen, Barkov.

That's just the current players I can think of off the top of my head. Risto got some AHL time, but most would agree he did well enough to just start and stay in the NHL in his rookie season.

35 points is a very good marker for this type of player next season.
Barkovs game exploded when Jagr was added to their team, +2 season trade deadline.
Aho scored his 1st goal on his 14th game, he was a year older than Pulju. Risto played 34 games in the AHL.

Barkov/Nylander/Pasta, all took to +3 season for their games to explode.
Rantanen made a huge jump from his +1 season to +2 season, could see his game explode like those 3's next year as well.

So again I don't know a Finn who's been able to tranfer his Liiga game to NHL right away without problems. Sure there are players who can play in the NHL on game 1, but not as impact players.


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07-16-2017, 05:53 PM
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That was more to Staples Yakupov comments.

He definitely didn't have a perfect transition.
Laine was able to put up points because the moment he stepped into NHL he had one of the best shots in the league.
You are being overly critical. I think 50 points for an 18 year old in the NHL is outstanding. Truly. He had 36 goals, 28 assists... points are points, and you wouldn't be *****ing about Laine's game as an 18 year old if he was on our team.

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07-16-2017, 05:57 PM
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Barkovs game exploded when Jagr was added to their team, +2 season trade deadline.
Aho scored his 1st goal on his 14th game, he was a year older than Pulju. Risto played 34 games in the AHL.

Barkov/Nylander/Pasta, all took to +3 season for their games to explode.
Rantanen made a huge jump from his +1 season to +2 season, could see his game explode like those 3's next year as well.

So again I don't know a Finn who's been able to tranfer his Liiga game to NHL right away without problems. Sure there are players who can play in the NHL on game 1, but not as impact players.
What's an impact player? Putting up 60-70 points? If you ask anyone on the Florida board, Barkov was already a supreme defensive player at age 18 coming into the season.

Based on the original question, it also noted the transfer between Sm-Liiga and the NHL, and Jokinen put up 55 points in his first season.

Again, the sentiment of the original comment was taken but there is precedent set of this happening. I simply answered.

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Sebastian Aho - born 26 July 1997,
Jesse Puljujarvi - born 7 May 1998.
First NHL season 2016 - 2017.
So if I'm counting right, Sebastian was 19 whole season, not 18..
If you're going to be this pedantic, maybe look at the original statement?

No age was brought up and my answer was 18-19, and "pretty much" to the majority of players being 18. Great math work though.

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07-16-2017, 06:04 PM
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What's an impact player? Putting up 60-70 points? If you ask anyone on the Florida board, Barkov was already a supreme defensive player at age 18 coming into the season.

Based on the original question, it also noted the transfer between Sm-Liiga and the NHL, and Jokinen put up 55 points in his first season.

Again, the sentiment of the original comment was taken but there is precedent set of this happening. I simply answered.



If you're going to be this pedantic, maybe look at the original statement?

No age was brought up and my answer was 18-19, and "pretty much" to the majority of players being 18. Great math work though.
Sorry, I'll stop.

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07-16-2017, 06:07 PM
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What's an impact player? Putting up 60-70 points? If you ask anyone on the Florida board, Barkov was already a supreme defensive player at age 18 coming into the season.

Based on the original question, it also noted the transfer between Sm-Liiga and the NHL, and Jokinen put up 55 points in his first season.

Again, the sentiment of the original comment was taken but there is precedent set of this happening. I simply answered.




If you're going to be this pedantic, maybe look at the original statement?

No age was brought up and my answer was 18-19, and "pretty much" to the majority of players being 18. Great math work though.
I said a perfect transition, Barkov started to put up offensive numbers in his +3 season even though he was a beast in Liiga on his draft year. I remember the Barkov is a bust comments, look at them now.
He like basically every other Finnish prospect has had a transition time from Liiga hockey to NHL hockey/rink.
Just like Nylander& Pasta had also. FF as well, he had 5 points in 13 NHL games in his +2 season, 34 points in 47 AHL games. Had 63 points in the NHL in his +3 season.

Jokinen was a rookie 12 years ago(pre my NHL time) when he was 4 years older than Pulju, a good reminder to being patient with Pulju/other European prospects.

Takes some time for European kids to get their European game going in the NHL.


Last edited by BB88: 07-16-2017 at 06:23 PM.
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