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Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: The X Factor

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Old
07-16-2017, 10:25 PM
  #26
GameChanger
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I see a couple of problems here. The first is that I've lately posted too many comments about this and have to let go a bit.

The second is that quite a few people here seem to have kind of short memories with these issues. Jesse was doing just fine (ppg/60 as good and even better than Matthews and Laine) before the last games and the strange treatment at the end of his NHL time. I emphasize one more time that this forum was excited about him and was pissed about why Jesse was taken away from the 1st line so soon and later put together with Caggiula and Pouliot, who at that stage hadn't got barely anything done offensively.

I understand if some people feel the AHL or WC scores give a reason to worry, but the short NHL stint should rather be quite promising. Based on how he played when he was trusted and the 1ppg (just 5on5) with McDavid, I just see those 35 point estimates very low.

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07-16-2017, 10:31 PM
  #27
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I think people are overly cautious after Paajarvi and more recently Yakupov. One thing Puljujaarvi has on both is a better combination of natural talent, physical tools, and a better team to support him. I think he should make the team. Whether he has a strong season is a different question.

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07-16-2017, 10:45 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
I think people are overly cautious after Paajarvi and more recently Yakupov. One thing Puljujaarvi has on both is a better combination of natural talent, physical tools, and a better team to support him. I think he should make the team. Whether he has a strong season is a different question.
The other biggest difference I see between Puljujarvi and the other two players is a matter of what type of mistakes he made while on the Oilers. Puljujarvi was very rarely out of position, his mistakes were more often (to my eye) because he was caught off-guard by the speed of the NHL. This is a good sign to me, because if his fundamental positioning is good (something Pajaarvi struggled with hand Yak has yet to learn) then adapting to smaller ice and faster opposition will be a much smoother process.

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07-17-2017, 08:30 AM
  #29
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Bruce McCurdy commented on the podcast that the only thing that makes sense is that Pulju had a clause that demanded he dresses for 40 games last season. Maybe that was enough to make him go to Edmonton over playing one more year in Finland? I called out Chia a couple times because of this saying that it's a net loss for the team without anything really in return. Burning a year of ELC has some convoluted scenarios where it might or might not make sense depending on a lot of external factors (losing control over contract matters several years down the line isn't necessarily brilliant asset management), but losing one year of RFA can't be defended like that. It was a game where he had something like 3 minutes of icetime, I'm quite sure the team could have handled it without him.

I agree that he probably had some kind of special clause last season which was a factor in deciding why the Oilers handled him like they did.

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Old
07-17-2017, 08:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ohheyhemsky View Post
Laine - 18
Aho - 18-19
Ristolainen - 18
Barkov - 18.

Jokinen was 20.

So pretty much, yes.
Aho wasn't in the NHL in his draft+1 year, Risto and Barkov had great struggles in their 1st season and not sure why Jokinen is even included.

The fact of the matter is that there's almost always a tough transition for Euro prospects coming over to North America. This isn't exactly exclusive to Puljujarvi.

I think expectations for him going into last season were ridiculous to be quite honest so it's not surprising to see some people disappointed with him already.

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07-17-2017, 12:23 PM
  #31
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Bruce McCurdy commented on the podcast that the only thing that makes sense is that Pulju had a clause that demanded he dresses for 40 games last season. Maybe that was enough to make him go to Edmonton over playing one more year in Finland? I called out Chia a couple times because of this saying that it's a net loss for the team without anything really in return. Burning a year of ELC has some convoluted scenarios where it might or might not make sense depending on a lot of external factors (losing control over contract matters several years down the line isn't necessarily brilliant asset management), but losing one year of RFA can't be defended like that. It was a game where he had something like 3 minutes of icetime, I'm quite sure the team could have handled it without him.

I agree that he probably had some kind of special clause last season which was a factor in deciding why the Oilers handled him like they did.
I really don't know that you can have a clause like that. However, it could have been a gentleman's handshake and that probably makes the most sense.

I can understand why a guy would want it, but at the end of the day wouldn't Jesse have been better off as a player playing in the AHL instead of just getting a closer sit from the bench? Then again I don't know that another year in Sweden was a bad option either.

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07-17-2017, 12:33 PM
  #32
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I like Pulju and I think this team needs a Lehtenen more than a Hull, but I think the right move is to slow play him and send him to the AHL until over-ripe.

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Old
07-17-2017, 12:38 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I really don't know that you can have a clause like that. However, it could have been a gentleman's handshake and that probably makes the most sense.

I can understand why a guy would want it, but at the end of the day wouldn't Jesse have been better off as a player playing in the AHL instead of just getting a closer sit from the bench? Then again I don't know that another year in Sweden was a bad option either.
A couple of other (unlikely) options:

1. They were certain that they would call Jesse up at some point, so the 40 game mark wouldn't matter. However, the team was doing so well they changed the plan and thought it's better for Jesse to have higher minutes in the AHL.

2. This sounds ridiculous, but maybe they forgot that the 40 game limit is not for the games played and kept him in the team too long by accident Yeah, of course this would be such a beginners mistake it can't really be possible. But in this forum this info seemed to be new to a lot of writers, including myself.

And one little correction, Jesse came from FEL as he's playd all his career in Finland even though he was born in Sweden.


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Old
07-17-2017, 12:47 PM
  #34
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Leaving Jesse in for those games was stupid. Full stop. There is no defense for it.

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07-17-2017, 01:16 PM
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Leaving Jesse in for those games was stupid. Full stop. There is no defense for it.
You're probably right. Unfortunately in this case.

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07-17-2017, 01:54 PM
  #36
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Leaving Jesse in for those games was stupid. Full stop. There is no defense for it.
it was so stupid that there had to be a reason.

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Old
07-17-2017, 02:10 PM
  #37
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it was so stupid that there had to be a reason.
And the ONLY one that makes any sense is the "gentleman's agreement" described above... Personally I can't see how any of these drafted guys have one inch of leverage. We aren't talking Eric Lindros here - you get what you get. Don't want to sign?? Oh well. Have fun in the FEL or SEL. See yeh...

I am a tiny bit concerned we haven't seen anything positive on the Pulju front for a few months now. Nothing about training or anything. YES, it is the summer, but one would hope. I guess camp isn't that far away!!! Pulju making a contribution this year could be a big factor on where this team can go. If he's a solid RW contributor, that depth chart looks a lot better.

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07-17-2017, 05:29 PM
  #38
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And the ONLY one that makes any sense is the "gentleman's agreement" described above... Personally I can't see how any of these drafted guys have one inch of leverage. We aren't talking Eric Lindros here - you get what you get. Don't want to sign?? Oh well. Have fun in the FEL or SEL. See yeh...

I am a tiny bit concerned we haven't seen anything positive on the Pulju front for a few months now. Nothing about training or anything. YES, it is the summer, but one would hope. I guess camp isn't that far away!!! Pulju making a contribution this year could be a big factor on where this team can go. If he's a solid RW contributor, that depth chart looks a lot better.
I think the Euros have leverage as they know the NHL teams want them over here as soon as possible. PC and company also realize that with Jesse they were sooner or later going to have that culture shock too. Might as well get him in sooner so when the team is ready to go hopefully the guy can make an impact.

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07-17-2017, 05:49 PM
  #39
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I'll be interested in Pettersson and miro this upcoming year to see if they play over the 38 game limit. I can easily see euros saying "I'll stay in europe next year unless I get the 38 games as an 18 year old" they need incentive to leave their home country and good money to come to NA. I don't know of just playing in AHL only as an 18 year old is incentive enough. Not sure on $ differences but culture wise it's a big jump

Also: there is more to nhl then just showing excelling. There is other parts of his game I bet TM wanted to tweak and have access to develop. Learn the Oilers systems as well. Maybe thats more valuable than contract situation 3 years down the road

Speculation only

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07-17-2017, 06:09 PM
  #40
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I don't know of just playing in AHL only as an 18 year old is incentive enough. Not sure on $ differences but culture wise it's a big jump
I may be wrong, but isn't the maximum you can make in AHL some 70-80 000 (other than one-way deals)? With a new contract Puljujarvi could've made some 400 000 or even more in FEL, as he should be one of the best players in the league and marketing-wise the most usable one. Then again he already had a contract of a lesser value with his team Kärpät, but Kärpät might've offered him a much higher salary if they'd felt that way they might be able to keep Jesse in Finland for one more year.

AHL is often called a bus league here and obviously it's not the most tempting league unless the player feels it's definitely better for the NHL career. Of course each player is different.

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07-17-2017, 06:17 PM
  #41
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I may be wrong, but isn't the maximum you can make in AHL some 70-80 000 (other than one-way deals)? With a new contract Puljujarvi could've made some 400 000 or even more in FEL, as he should be one of the best players in the league and marketing-wise the most usable one. Then again he already had a contract of a lesser value with his team Kärpät, but Kärpät might've offered him a much higher salary if they'd felt that way they might be able to keep Jesse in Finland for one more year.

AHL is often called a bus league here and obviously it's not the most tempting league unless the player feels it's definitely better for the NHL career. Of course each player is different.
That's what I think it was too. High picks have a good amount of leverage and AHL is a pretty unappealing league. I'd watch other swedes and fins drafted this year to see what they do

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07-17-2017, 09:03 PM
  #42
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it was so stupid that there had to be a reason.
Quoted for wisdom.

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Old
07-18-2017, 10:57 AM
  #43
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I think the Euros have leverage as they know the NHL teams want them over here as soon as possible. PC and company also realize that with Jesse they were sooner or later going to have that culture shock too. Might as well get him in sooner so when the team is ready to go hopefully the guy can make an impact.
Jesse's old coach gave some critique about his current form, saying that Jesse has put on weight and subsequently slowed down and seemed out of breath at the end of shifts. That tells me that there could be a clash of philosophies between a lighter, mobile forward vs heavier and slower one. Playing in Finland would have involved only a fraction of the travel time compared to NA leagues and much less games played, which enables more focus on strength training and such. On the other hand maybe the Oilers didn't believe he'd be any closer to contributing in NHL and wanted him over because of that. He would have gotten a pretty sweet deal on FEL standards and probably only made more this season because he was dressed for so many NHL games. It might have been just a money thing.

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07-18-2017, 11:04 AM
  #44
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it was so stupid that there had to be a reason.
The reason was stupidity. Even good GMs make dumb decisions some times. This was one of them.

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07-18-2017, 12:14 PM
  #45
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as unimpressive as jesse was in his breif NHL stint at least he didnt clap a one timer into his own net

jesse>laine

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07-18-2017, 02:10 PM
  #46
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The reason was stupidity. Even good GMs make dumb decisions some times. This was one of them.
I don't know, it's hard to say. Rishaug alluded to the fact that perhaps the reason the Draisaitl negotiations are being extended is due to him being sent down just prior to that mark. I know teams hold all the cards when it comes to this, but then players feel less bad about taking advantage of teams when they can.

It's possible Chiarelli learned from this and wanted to build a good relationship with Pulju rather than have him sour on the team over 1 UFA year.

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Old
07-18-2017, 03:19 PM
  #47
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as unimpressive as jesse was in his breif NHL stint at least he didnt clap a one timer into his own net

jesse>laine
I guess you are just trying to provoke with your post. But still I will point out this shortly. So do you think that one own goal is such a bad thing that it nullifies the 36 scored goals, 28 made assists and the +7 rating that the same player achieved?

Interesting concept of hockey you have, if you seriously think so...

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Old
07-18-2017, 03:37 PM
  #48
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I guess you are just trying to provoke with your post. But still I will point out this shortly. So do you think that one own goal is such a bad thing that it nullifies the 36 scored goals, 28 made assists and the +7 rating that the same player achieved?

Interesting concept of hockey you have, if you seriously think so...
There will never be a more obvious joke implied for the rest of time.

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07-18-2017, 03:41 PM
  #49
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There will never be a more obvious joke implied for the rest of time.
I guess so. Just not very well put as a joke even.

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Old
07-18-2017, 03:58 PM
  #50
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Ahhh, gotta love the constructive and thoughtful conversations that happen on a hockey forum in the summer.

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