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Carey Price : Which is most likely to happen?

View Poll Results: Carey Price: Which scenarios are mostly to Happen?
Win a Cup in MTL 5 3.13%
Get his #31 retired by the Habs 11 6.88%
Gets Elected into the Hockey Hall of Fame 32 20.00%
All of the Above 24 15.00%
2 out of 3 58 36.25%
None of the Above 30 18.75%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-16-2017, 09:46 AM
  #26
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
The league was different because Roy went up against the greats in their prime. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Mogilny, Roenick, Modano, Bure, Federov, Lindstrom, Hull...shall I go on?

Roy is far and away better than Price, the trophies and competition prove that. The game today is so focused on defense that it benefits goalies, back then it was just based on offense.
Having watched both... I don't think so. Better yes. But it's not the blowout you're suggesting it is.

Price is more consistent than Roy was. Roy had years where he couldn't stop a beach ball and in the spring of '93 there was a feeling that we'd be better off trading the guy (there was a poll in the Gazette where the majority of fans wanted him gone.)

Roy was absolutely fantastic in '86 and '93. He had great numbers in '89 but I felt he wasn't as good as his numbers suggested. Apart from those runs though he was largely mediocre (and sometimes downright bad) for us.

Roy had significantly better teams in front of him and some incredidbly good defensive teams to boot. Skrudland, Carbo, Smith, Chelios, Gainey, Robinson... how the hell are you supposed to score against that team?

Here's the bottom line though. Price will NEVER be considered as good as any of those greats unless he wins a cup. Is it fair? Probably not but you won't get any kind of recognition if the farthest you've gone is the third round.

Roy better than Price? Sure. But it's not really a fair fight. There's no way on God's green earth that Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek would win a cup with Desharnais or Dannault as his first line center. Price has carried this team for most of his career. Roy didn't have to do that.

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07-16-2017, 09:50 AM
  #27
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I fail to see how the likes of Modano, Mogilny, Roenick, Forsberg are not on par with guys like Stamkos, Benn, Kopitar and Getzlaf or Tavares. Yeah names like Lemieux and Gretzky are in a league of their own but the second tier guys are not years ahead of the current crop of stars the league has.
Sure guys like Mogilny, Roenick, Forsberg are about in the same league as current stars.

But guys like Bourque, Lidstrom, Coffey, Jagr, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman ?

And we're not talking about guys like Bure, Hull, Selanne, Niedermayer, Oates, Lafontaine, Hawerchuk who have had some great seasons.

I don't know if it's nostalgia but I can't help but feel the offensive talent in the league has diminished a lot over the years. Seeing Jagr as a 44 year old still finish 22 in scoring in 15-16...

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07-16-2017, 09:51 AM
  #28
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It's essentially the same thing as retiring a jersey except they don't actually retire it. They just have the same type of ceremony. Some people hate it since it's half committing to such a simple concept.
Yes, if that is so, then place me in the category of people who hate it. I think it's a bit lame. Typical of the leafs.

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07-16-2017, 09:56 AM
  #29
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Not to open a different can of worms but I don't get the argument of yes for HHOF but no for the jersey. Are the Habs really of higher prestige than the HHOF? Is the big difference Price's international resume that has to be taken into account versus strictly relying on NHL accomplishments?
Yes, the habs have higher standards for retiring jersey than HHOF.

There are guys in the HHOF for which we haven't retired their jersey (Lemaire, F.Mahovlich, Laperriere, Shutt)


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07-16-2017, 10:02 AM
  #30
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He's clearly going to get his jersey retired. He's going to own every single Habs goaltending record in a few years, let alone 9. A 500+ win goalie.

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07-16-2017, 10:04 AM
  #31
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He's clearly going to get his jersey retired. He's going to own every single Habs goaltending record in a few years, let alone 9. A 500+ win goalie.
That's a fair point, and with his current deal, he'll most likely have spent his entire career in the Habs uniform.

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Old
07-16-2017, 10:19 AM
  #32
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Having watched both... I don't think so. Better yes. But it's not the blowout you're suggesting it is.

Price is more consistent than Roy was. Roy had years where he couldn't stop a beach ball and in the spring of '93 there was a feeling that we'd be better off trading the guy (there was a poll in the Gazette where the majority of fans wanted him gone.)

Roy was absolutely fantastic in '86 and '93. He had great numbers in '89 but I felt he wasn't as good as his numbers suggested. Apart from those runs though he was largely mediocre (and sometimes downright bad) for us.

Roy had significantly better teams in front of him and some incredidbly good defensive teams to boot. Skrudland, Carbo, Smith, Chelios, Gainey, Robinson... how the hell are you supposed to score against that team?

Here's the bottom line though. Price will NEVER be considered as good as any of those greats unless he wins a cup. Is it fair? Probably not but you won't get any kind of recognition if the farthest you've gone is the third round.

Roy better than Price? Sure. But it's not really a fair fight. There's no way on God's green earth that Patrick Roy or Dominik Hasek would win a cup with Desharnais or Dannault as his first line center. Price has carried this team for most of his career. Roy didn't have to do that.
You are correctly referring to some of Roy's putrid seasons or playoffs, but seem afraid to state the truth outright: he is overrated. Price is a far better goaltender, but he is not playing with the same team in front of him.

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07-16-2017, 10:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
You are correctly referring to some of Roy's putrid seasons or playoffs, but seem afraid to state the truth outright: he is overrated. Price is a far better goaltender, but he is not playing with the same team in front of him.
God help you sir.

One thing Price is infinitely better than Roy at though... handling the puck. Roy was below average at that (Gretzky deke aside.)

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07-16-2017, 10:38 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
God help you sir.

One thing Price is infinitely better than Roy at though... handling the puck. Roy was below average at that (Gretzky deke aside.)
Better at handling the puck, but also better at stopping the puck.

Roy save percentage/GAA in Montreal
.902 and 2.70

Price save percentage/GAA to date (same age roughly as Roy left)
.920 and 2.40

Price faces more shots per game (30 vs 27) and gives up LESS goals.

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07-16-2017, 10:43 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Better at handling the puck, but also better at stopping the puck.

Roy save percentage/GAA in Montreal
.902 and 2.70

Price save percentage/GAA to date (same age roughly as Roy left)
.920 and 2.40

Price faces more shots per game (30 vs 27) and gives up LESS goals.
To be fair, equipment is not even remotely close in terms of size than today.

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07-16-2017, 10:45 AM
  #36
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To be fair, equipment is not even remotely close in terms of size than today.
Yes, and that included the sticks used too.

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07-16-2017, 10:53 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Better at handling the puck, but also better at stopping the puck.

Roy save percentage/GAA in Montreal
.902 and 2.70

Price save percentage/GAA to date (same age roughly as Roy left)
.920 and 2.40

Price faces more shots per game (30 vs 27) and gives up LESS goals.
Totally different league now though. Equipment is different, far more defensive play than in the 80s. You can't compare raw numbers without context.

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07-16-2017, 10:54 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Better at handling the puck, but also better at stopping the puck.

Roy save percentage/GAA in Montreal
.902 and 2.70

Price save percentage/GAA to date (same age roughly as Roy left)
.920 and 2.40


Price faces more shots per game (30 vs 27) and gives up LESS goals.
That's funny. Did you really go there ? It's like saying Rask is better than Roy too...

You do realize that the save% of all goalies in the NHL has kept going up non-stop over the past 30 years ?

https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

In 85-86 when Roy started, save % average league wide was .874 and went up to .898 by the time Roy left. For an average around 0.886 over that period.

Today ? The save % average league wide hovers around .913-915.

So I'd say that Roy's save % in Montreal of .902 is comparatively way more impressive than Price. Price is only .005-007 above average whereas Roy is above the league average by closer to .015.

So Roy was comparatively to his peers way better than Price on any imaginable level you can think of.

PS: That's only taking regular season into account. The games that actually matter ? Oh boy let's not go there at all because Roy >>>>>>>> Price.

EDIT2:
Here are the aggragated numbers from 85-86 to 92-93 in the playoffs for goalies :

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...&sort=savePctg

That's how dominant Roy was. .912 in an era where the average was like .025 below that. Insane.

When Price over an 8 year stretch is that dominant in the playoffs even without winning a cup, then we can retire his jersey he'll have earned it. Until then, he'll continue to be possibly the most overrated player of all time.


EDIT3:BTW your figure of .902 has got to be wrong. It's more along the lines of .907-908 since according to NHL.com he saved 12 788 shots out of 14 088 from 85-86 to 95-96 (that includes some games from Colorado but I can't be arsed to take them out).


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God help you sir.
He's beyond even God's help now !


Last edited by One Less Louise: 07-16-2017 at 11:47 AM.
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Old
07-16-2017, 12:19 PM
  #39
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That's funny. Did you really go there ? It's like saying Rask is better than Roy too...

You do realize that the save% of all goalies in the NHL has kept going up non-stop over the past 30 years ?

https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html

In 85-86 when Roy started, save % average league wide was .874 and went up to .898 by the time Roy left. For an average around 0.886 over that period.

Today ? The save % average league wide hovers around .913-915.

So I'd say that Roy's save % in Montreal of .902 is comparatively way more impressive than Price. Price is only .005-007 above average whereas Roy is above the league average by closer to .015.

So Roy was comparatively to his peers way better than Price on any imaginable level you can think of.

PS: That's only taking regular season into account. The games that actually matter ? Oh boy let's not go there at all because Roy >>>>>>>> Price.

EDIT2:
Here are the aggragated numbers from 85-86 to 92-93 in the playoffs for goalies :

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggr...&sort=savePctg

That's how dominant Roy was. .912 in an era where the average was like .025 below that. Insane.

When Price over an 8 year stretch is that dominant in the playoffs even without winning a cup, then we can retire his jersey he'll have earned it. Until then, he'll continue to be possibly the most overrated player of all time.


EDIT3:BTW your figure of .902 has got to be wrong. It's more along the lines of .907-908 since according to NHL.com he saved 12 788 shots out of 14 088 from 85-86 to 95-96 (that includes some games from Colorado but I can't be arsed to take them out).

He's beyond even God's help now !
You think you destroyed my line of reasoning but actually you'll be surprised by the numbers when we do compare to other goalies...

Roy's save percentages in his final four regular seasons in Montreal:

95-96 12th .907 (Hasek .920)
94-95 14th .906 (Hasek .930)
93-94 3rd .918 (Hasek .930)
92-93 8th .894 (Joseph .911)


Price's save percentages in his final four regular seasons in Montreal:

16-17 7th .923 (Bobrovsky .931)
15-16 1st .934 (however only 12 games)
14-15 1st .933
13-14 3rd .927 (Harding .933 only 29 games)

Over the four year period, Roy was 7th in save percentage, while Price has been 1st in save percentage over the last 4 years.

No doubt Roy had good playoffs in 1993 and great playoffs in 1986, but in many of the seasons in between he was ordinary and giving up one bad goal every other game.

But honestly each playoff year is a small sample size. Four straight years of regular season during a goalie's prime years are a better gauge of relative strength.

Roy from ages 27-30 was significantly weaker at stopping the puck, relative to his peers, than Price from ages 26-29.

Also notice that the top keeper in those last three years of Roy in Montreal was stopping pucks at about .927 whereas now it is about .932. The difference is not as big as you were making it out to be.

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07-16-2017, 12:42 PM
  #40
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No way it's a huge hyperbole.

At the same age Roy had 2 Conn Smythe, 2 cup wins, 3 vezina, 4 jennings, 1 cup final.

Even if you take out team accomplishments by saying those habs teams were so much better than this one, Roy was the main guy behind those cup wins. Any other goaltender than Roy from 86 to 93 and I don't think we win a single cup. And if they don't win cups, then those teams aren't remembered as great at all.

In all of his years with the habs, what has Price done I ask you ? One great season ? That's it. I'm sorry but as Price's career stands... it's simply not worth a jersey retirement.

And this thread is further proof of how overrated Price is, and continues to be. What's funny to me is that in 10 years, Price has exactly 4 playoffs series wins. FOUR! And we're talking about jersey retirement ? Perhaps if we were some garbage expansion team.. but even then... that's setting an abysmally low standard. With Montreal's history? That would be unthinkable.

And the contract won't change that because by the time it would even be possible to retire his jersey, MB will be long gone. There won't be a "save face" incentive to it. Either Price will have truly achieved greatness like his fans think he can, or he won't, and there will be zero support for a jersey retirement once we see the end results.
Price compared to Roy is like Richer compared to Lafleur.

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07-16-2017, 12:53 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
You think you destroyed my line of reasoning but actually you'll be surprised by the numbers when we do compare to other goalies...

Roy's save percentages in his final four regular seasons in Montreal:

95-96 12th .907 (Hasek .920)
94-95 14th .906 (Hasek .930)
93-94 3rd .918 (Hasek .930)
92-93 8th .894 (Joseph .911)


Price's save percentages in his final four regular seasons in Montreal:

16-17 7th .923 (Bobrovsky .931)
15-16 1st .934 (however only 12 games)
14-15 1st .933
13-14 3rd .927 (Harding .933 only 29 games)

Over the four year period, Roy was 7th in save percentage, while Price has been 1st in save percentage over the last 4 years.

No doubt Roy had good playoffs in 1993 and great playoffs in 1986, but in many of the seasons in between he was ordinary and giving up one bad goal every other game.

But honestly each playoff year is a small sample size. Four straight years of regular season during a goalie's prime years are a better gauge of relative strength.

Roy from ages 27-30 was significantly weaker at stopping the puck, relative to his peers, than Price from ages 26-29.

Also notice that the top keeper in those last three years of Roy in Montreal was stopping pucks at about .927 whereas now it is about .932. The difference is not as big as you were making it out to be.
First of all, in 94-95 Roy was 10th if you consider goalies who played 20 games or more. Which is only normal even in lockout shortened season.

Secondly, this is nothing but an artful job of pointless cherry picking.

You take 4 of Roy's worst seasons and the 4 best Price seasons (one of which wasn't even a season at 12 games) ? What's the point of doing that when you are trying to compare both goalies' entire career with the habs ?

And you're using the start of Hasek's prime who possibly had the most dominant prime of any goalies to make it appear as if Roy wasn't that good. Nice try... Who would you use as competition for Price ? Not Hasek that's for sure. And if you wanna play that game :

Price's save percentages the 3 years prior to the stretch you posted

10-11 7th .923 (Thomas #1 at .938)
11-12 21st .916 (Smith #1 at .930)
12-13 29th .905 (Brobovsky .932)

But that wouldn't actually matter if Price was elevating his game in the playoffs where it matters.

BTW the year that Roy finished 12th at .907, he had a .921 save % in the playoffs on the way to another cup win. When Price elevates his play like that when it matters wake me up. Regular season is simply a long grind to determine who you will face in the first and second round. And Roy has played so much in the playoffs that you can't dismiss it as small sample size. Roy always elevated his game in the playoffs. He has almost 250 playoffs games to his name with his a save % of .918. If you were to adjust that for era he'd destroy the field. DESTROY IT. Hell your so-called better goalie in an era that is .025-030 above Roy's has a career save % in the playoffs of LOL .914. Get out of here ! I can only imagine how bad it would be if he had had to face Gretzky and Lemieux in their prime.

It's actually mind boggling, I have to post it again to make sure it registers :

Roy career save % playoffs : .918
Price career save % playoffs : .914

BEFORE EVEN ADJUSTING FOR ERA....

Please don't argue that Price is better than Roy. It's silly. And I don't even like Roy as a person.


Last edited by One Less Louise: 07-16-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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Old
07-16-2017, 01:01 PM
  #42
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First of all, in 94-95 Roy was 10th if you consider goalies who played 20 games or more. Which is only normal even in lockout shortened season.

Secondly, this is nothing but an artful job of pointless cherry picking.

You take 4 of Roy's worst seasons and the 4 best Price seasons (one of which wasn't even a season at 12 games) ? What's the point of doing that when you are trying to compare both goalies' entire career with the habs ?

And you're using the start of Hasek's prime who possibly had the most dominant prime of any goalies to make it appear as if Roy wasn't that good. Nice try... Who would you use as competition for Price ? Not Hasek that's for sure. And if you wanna play that game :

Price's save percentages the 3 years prior to the stretch you posted

10-11 7th .923 (Thomas #1 at .938)
11-12 21st .916 (Smith #1 at .930)
12-13 29th .905 (Brobovsky .932)

But that wouldn't actually matter if Price was elevating his game in the playoffs where it matters.
I took Price's last four years and Roy's last four years in Montreal. Four years no cherry picking and players were about the same age. And the results are: Price 1st in league, Roy 6th in league. That is significant because unlike what you are trying to sneak by us, Hasek was not the only goalie with a better save percentage than Roy.

It is however true that for his first couple of years in the league Roy was better than Price in his first couple of years. Agreed there.

But what is overlooked is that Roy's more consistent years were in Colorado, compared to Montreal.

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07-16-2017, 01:02 PM
  #43
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Theres no way his number is going up without a Cup, or two.

So either, a Cup in the next 5 years (by the skin of our teeth) + Hall of fame (he's gonna have the numbers for it, arguably by the end of his career)

Or all 3 if he wins 2 Cups.

I chose 2/3 cuz I don't think we'll win more than one Cup unless we are the luckiest SOBs, and get the best GM on the planet. Even then, it will be the struggle of another 25 years of my life.

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You are correctly referring to some of Roy's putrid seasons or playoffs, but seem afraid to state the truth outright: he is overrated. Price is a far better goaltender, but he is not playing with the same team in front of him.
I agree with this on an objective level, without letting emotion and hindsight creep in.

a) Roy and Marty played in an era when goalies were pretty much all standing up. Roy paved the way. Like technology today, look at how many coders there are, and how Moore's law has created systems that all run on insane computing power. Roy is a legend for this, but like Moore's law in computing, it's come to an end with goaltending. I'd say Price is the closest thing to redefining the position.

b) The teams

c) As has been mentioned, Roy is remembered for his extreme highs, but not his mediocre lows. That's how he played, and his personality played a large role. It's funny the stuff Price gets blamed for sometimes, when you consider that Roy was far more often (than Carey has been), a complete sieve. (More forgivable back then, and he made up for it with his beast modes.)


So as a goalie, I've seen Price put in the performances arguably comparable to Roy -- perhaps not quite 86/93, but not far. At the end of the day, this is the Habs, so you better win a Cup. The tragedy is that this is less a debate about Carey, and more about the teams he's had to play with. Imagine Koivu with a great team and less injuries...


Last edited by habtastic: 07-16-2017 at 01:13 PM.
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07-16-2017, 01:08 PM
  #44
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I took Price's last four years and Roy's last four years in Montreal. Four years no cherry picking and players were about the same age.

It is true that for his first couple of years in the league Roy was better than Price in his first couple of years.

But what is overlooked is that Roy's more consistent years were in Colorado, compared to Montreal.
I don't see the point of doing that though ? Why take the last 4 years with the habs ? It serves no purpose for what we're trying to do.

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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I took Price's last four years and Roy's last four years in Montreal. Four years no cherry picking and players were about the same age.

It is true that for his first couple of years in the league Roy was better than Price in his first couple of years.

But what is overlooked is that Roy's more consistent years were in Colorado, compared to Montreal.
In their careers with the habs :

Roy save % playoffs : .913 (#2 with the #1 being Brodeur who had played one third of Roy's games at that time and who had the benefit of playing in the 90ies instead of mid 80ies)
Price save % playoffs : .914 (#21.... ) - even if you cherry pick the last 4 years for no reason whatsoever, Price is still only 11th at .922

It's shocking how much better that .913 is compared to Price if you understand that it was a completely different era with much lower save %.

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07-16-2017, 01:15 PM
  #45
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Guy has been outplayed by the likes of Biron, Anderson, Bishop in the playoffs. He's yet to take over in the playoffs. Minus a cup, he falls well short of jersey retirement.

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07-16-2017, 01:15 PM
  #46
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I don't see the point of doing that though ? Why take the last 4 years with the habs ? It serves no purpose for what we're trying to do.



In their careers with the habs :

Roy save % playoffs : .913 (#2 with the #1 being Brodeur who had played one third of Roy's games at that time and who had the benefit of playing in the 90ies instead of mid 80ies)
Price save % playoffs : .914 (#21.... ) - even if you cherry pick the last 4 years for no reason whatsoever, Price is still only 11th at .922

It's shocking how much better that .913 is compared to Price if you understand that it was a completely different era with much lower save %.
Agreed that playoffs show a different picture because Price has not yet had a dominant playoff.

But the reason I took the last four years of Roy and the last four years of Price is that the next 8-9 years for Price need to be projected off something.

Roy won two cups and that is a wonderful thing (!) but Price has been the more consistently good, top of league goaltender of the two, counting only Roy's Montreal years.

But I agree that if he never wins a cup in this 31 team league, he will not have as much "legend" attached to him.

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07-16-2017, 01:25 PM
  #47
le_sean
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanatic89 View Post
Guy has been outplayed by the likes of Biron, Anderson, Bishop in the playoffs. He's yet to take over in the playoffs. Minus a cup, he falls well short of jersey retirement.
That's just asinine.

There have been two goalies in the history of the league that have 500+ wins. Carey just needs to average 26 wins a season for the remainder of his contract to reach that plateau, which should be easy.

If you don't think being Top 3 in career wins (NHL wide) and shattering nearly every goaltending record for the franchise is enough to get his jersey retired, then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean how can one justify players like Butch Bouchard and Bob Gainey having their numbers retired and not Price in those circumstances? And I know you'll answer "BUT CUPS!!111!!" but that's just a lazy argument.

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07-16-2017, 01:29 PM
  #48
Andrei79
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Not to open a different can of worms but I don't get the argument of yes for HHOF but no for the jersey. Are the Habs really of higher prestige than the HHOF? Is the big difference Price's international resume that has to be taken into account versus strictly relying on NHL accomplishments?
Yes, the Habs actually are higher prestige. It's the minimum requirement to have your jersey retired.

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07-16-2017, 01:34 PM
  #49
One Less Louise
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Roy won two cups and that is a wonderful thing (!) but Price has been the more consistently good, top of league goaltender of the two, counting only Roy's Montreal years.
Roy didn't just win 2 cups, he won the MVP of the playoffs on those two occasions. He also brought the habs to the finals in 89.

Also, I don't see how you can say Price has been more consistent when you have to take the last 4 years of Price's career to paint him in a good light (one of which was spent on the IR). How is that consistency ? In his first 10 seasons Roy had 4 jennings and 3 vezinas !!! In his first 10 seasons, Price has 1 vezina and 1 jennings and it's the same year, so how can that be more consistent ? I also think Roy's worst seasons were better than Price's worst seasons. I just fail to see how you can make that claim.

You want consistency ? Here's consistency

Roy Trophy Case :
88-89 : Vezina, #4 in hart votes
89-90 : Vezina, #5 in hart votes
90-91 : 2nd in Vezina votes
91-92 : Vezina, #2 in hart votes
92-93 : 6th in Vezina votes but Conn Smythe and Stanley cup


If anything Price had a higher regular season peak than Roy. But even that is debatable because Roy had a .912 save % in 89-90 and league average was .881. #2 was .903. Back then those trophies were scorer centric. Was almost impossible for a goalie to win it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
But I agree that if he never wins a cup in this 31 team league, he will not have as much "legend" attached to him.
If Price wins a Conn Smythe in a losing effort, that would also be enough for me to retire his jersey. He would start to enter the discussion. Because of course, in this day and age, in a 30-31 teams league, it's way harder to win it all. That means perhaps standards could be lowered a little in terms of cup wins.


Last edited by One Less Louise: 07-16-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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07-16-2017, 01:34 PM
  #50
hockeyfanatic89
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
That's just asinine.

There have been two goalies in the history of the league that have 500+ wins. Carey just needs to average 26 wins a season for the remainder of his contract to reach that plateau, which should be easy.

If you don't think being Top 3 in career wins (NHL wide) and shattering nearly every goaltending record for the franchise is enough to get his jersey retired, then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean how can one justify players like Butch Bouchard and Bob Gainey having their numbers retired and not Price in those circumstances? And I know you'll answer "BUT CUPS!!111!!" but that's just a lazy argument.

Montreal has never retired a # of a cup less player. They won't start now.

Furthermore, it's blasphemy for some to even dare suggest Price was a better Habs goalie then Roy.

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