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Old
07-17-2017, 02:35 PM
  #1
Henkka
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Second Reality

This is a story about Detroit Red Wings. About Red Wings in another Universe. In another dimension. This is a story about Detroit Red Wings, which did start HF Boards fan-favorited full rebuild after their last reasonable playoff run. That run happened at 2012-13 season.

Also, their GM did turn the “switch” towards the future already at 2012 trade deadline. This story will start from there. The Kyle Quincey non-trade.

***

On the year of 2012, Red Wings were hitting at the trade deadline as 2nd in NHL standings after New York Rangers on March 29th. GM Ken Holland refuses to trade a 1st round pick for Kyle Quincey, which Colorado is asking for him via Tampa GM Steve Yzerman. Instead, Holland goes after defensive defenceman Nicklas Grossmann from Dallas Stars. Holland outbids Philadelphia Flyers offer for 2nd+3rd rounder, and Crossmann will cost 2012 2nd round pick and 2013 2nd round pick. Asking price for Johnny Oduya was the same, but Chicago Blackhawks will get him.

Injuries will hit after the deadline for Nicklas Lidström, Jimmy Howard, Darren Helm and for Pavel Datsyuk. Red Wings will start falling on the standings. At first playoff round, they get eliminated by Nashville Predators by 4-1. Los Angeles Kings will win the Stanley Cup.

Nicklas Lidström decides to retire. Ken Holland knows that this is THE signal to go for a rebuild. Pavel Datsyuk has 2 years of his contract remaining and he has talked about wanting to go back to Russia. Holland starts planning to trade some of stars like Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg or Johan Franzen, proably Franzen, because Zetterberg will be named as new Captain after Lidström. They need him to carry the torch at least some period of time.

Before the NHL Entry draft, Holland trades the negotiating rights of Brad Stuart to San Jose. Guy is homesick and will be returning to his family. Wings will fetch a 2014 7th round pick as a compensation.

At 2012 NHL Entry draft Red Wings will select defenceman Olli Määttä at 19th overall. Ken Holland can’t hide his smile when he says that “it felt like keeping a 2nd rounder at 2012 deadline, when not trading the 29th overall pick, but through unlucky injuries and the sliding on the standings it feels like a lottery win. Now we did pick at 19th overall and proably got at TOP15 talent. It had nothing to do with my drafting ability or GM skill, it was just pure luck, when injuries out of nowhere turned our season around.”

At 2012 Entry draft Red Wings will select:

1st round, #19 overall, LD Olli Määttä
3rd round, #80 overall, G Jake Paterson
4th round, #110 overall, F Andreas Athanasiou
5th round, #140 overall, D Mike McKee
6th round #170 overall, D James de Haas
7th round #200 overall, W Rasmus Bodin

(Martin Frk draft pick on 2nd round never happens, because that pick was traded for Grossmann.)


TO BE CONTINUED...


Last edited by Henkka: 07-18-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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07-17-2017, 02:58 PM
  #2
Henkka
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After the 2012 Entry draft, NHL also has a lockout. CBA will change and Zetterberg & Franzen contracts from past success become less tradeable. Recapture penalty will be implemented for older tail-end contracts and that pretty much handcuffs both guys in on our organization until the of their contract ends.

Holland is forced to keep both, so he would control recapture penalties 100% on his own. This changes his rebuilding plans a bit, and despite of Lidström’s retirement, he still tries be successful for a one more season, because rest of the contending core is there.

2012-13 season is shortened and Holland just extends Crossman’s contract for 3 years for 3.5M. Also signs forward Damien Brunner from Switzerland, which Zetterberg did join during the lockout. On trade deadline, sells only defenceman Kent Huskins to Philadelphia for future considerations. College free agent Dan DeKeyser will be signed so young assets are coming in, but team staying competitive. Things look pretty good in Kenny’s eyes, still a decent team and no lost draft picks. Kronwall has taken the torch from Lidström surprisingly well. Dats and Zetts are still dynamite.

Red Wings will get to 2nd round at playoffs and will be beaten by Chicago Blackhawks in a close 7-game series, in overtime. Hawks will win their 2nd Cup in 4 years. "It was worth of a try, and again, no lost futures." -Kenny thinks, and kisses 2002 Stanley Cup ring on his finger.

At 2013 draft Red Wings will trade their #18 overall down by two spots with San Jose and get Anthony Mantha at #20 overall. Red Wings 2nd rounder was traded for Crossmann, but Holland will get a 2nd rounder back on this trade-down. With that #58 overall they will select Zach Nastasiuk. HF Boards will lose their discussion battle about Tyler Bertuzzi.

2013 draft picks:

1st round, #18 overall, RW Anthony Mantha
2nd round, #58 overall, C Zach Nastasiuk
3rd round, #79 overall, C Matthias Janmark
4th round, #109 overall, LW David Pope
5th round, #139 overall, LD Mitchell Wheaton
6th round, #169 overall, RD Marc McNulty
7th round #199 overall, W Hampus Melen

(Tyler Bertuzzi draft pick on 2nd round never happens, because that pick was traded for Grossmann.)


TO BE CONTINUED...


Last edited by Henkka: 07-18-2017 at 08:54 AM.
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07-17-2017, 03:07 PM
  #3
mjtm777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
After the 2012 Entry draft, NHL also has a lockout. CBA will change and Zetterberg & Franzen contracts from past success become less tradeable. Recapture penalty will be implemented for older tail-end contracts and that pretty much handcuffs both guys in on our organization until the of their contract ends.

Holland is forced to keep both, so he would control recapture penalties 100% on his own. This changes his rebuilding plans a bit, and despite of Lidström’s retirement, he still tries be successful for a one more season, because rest of the contending core is there.

2012-13 season is shortened and Holland just extends Crossman’s contract for 3 years for 3.5M. Also signs forward Damien Brunner from Switzerland, which Zetterberg did join during the lockout. On trade deadline, sells only defenceman Kent Huskins to Philadelphia for future considerations. College free agent Dan DeKeyser will be signed so young assets are coming in, but team staying competitive. Things look pretty good in Kenny’s eyes, still a decent team and no lost draft picks. Kronwall has taken the torch from Lidström surprisingly well. Dats and Zetts are still dynamite.

Red Wings will get to 2nd round at playoffs and will be beaten by Chicago Blackhawks in a close 7-game series, in overtime. Hawks will win their 2nd Cup in 4 years. "It was worth of a try, and again, no lost futures." - Kenny thinks and kisses a Stanley Cup ring on his finger.

At 2013 draft Red Wings will trade their #18 overall down by two spots with San Jose and get Anthony Mantha at #20 overall. Red Wings 2nd rounder was traded for Crossmann, but Holland will get a 2nd rounder back on this trade-down. With that #58 overall they will select Zach Nastasiuk.

2013 draft picks:

1st round, #18 overall, RW Anthony Mantha
2nd round, #58 overall, C Zach Nastasiuk
3rd round, #79 overall, C Matthias Janmark
4th round, #109 overall, LW David Pope
5th round, #139 overall, LD Mitchell Wheaton
6th round, #169 overall, RD Marc McNulty
7th round #199 overall, W Hampus Melen

(Tyler Bertuzzi draft pick on 2nd round never happens, because that pick was traded for Grossmann.)


TO BE CONTINUED...
The Tyler Bertuzzi pick happens as he would most likely have still been available when the wind picked in the 3rd round.

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Old
07-17-2017, 04:11 PM
  #4
Henkka
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Originally Posted by mjtm777 View Post
The Tyler Bertuzzi pick happens as he would most likely have still been available when the wind picked in the 3rd round.
Dallas was after him at #68, so proably not. Wings would pick at #79.

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07-17-2017, 04:15 PM
  #5
Frk It
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What is the goal with this?

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07-17-2017, 04:21 PM
  #6
Henkka
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When entering the 2013 off-season, Pavel Datsyuk is on his final year. Holland also re-signs UFA Valtteri Filppula and also brings in UFA Daniel Alfredsson for 1-year. Signing Alfredsson is a move to sell season tickets, and give some help for Pavel's possible final push. But if the season doesn’t go through in a good way, he is a valuable asset to sell at trade deadline.

There’s more cap room to keep Filppula, because Crossman was cheaper than Kyle Quincey in another Universe. Stephen Weiss was a plan B UFA, if Filppula won't re-sign, but he re-signed. So, in free agency, Weiss will sign with St. Louis Blues, because they were the highest bidder. Othervise he would have picked Wings with a slight discount. Kenny will enjoy one cigar again, when he was lucky with Filppula extension.

Season will be a mess. It’s a Sochi Olympic year and all of Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Alfredsson and Franzen will get injured during the season and Red Wings will be out from a playoff spot, when they enter to the trade deadline. Holland will tarck down some trade options for a final push, but there's notheing better than some David Legwand available. Coach Babcock is all about Legwand. "I will want him as a bigger body to play against", but Kenny keeps his head. Fûck it. Now it’s time to pull the trigger, and Kenny decides to sell all of his UFAs, Datsyuk, Dan Cleary, Jonathan Ericsson and Alfredsson.

Datsyuk is traded to New York Rangers (instead of Martin St. Louis), for conditional 2nd round pick at 2014 (becomes 1st round pick if Rangers will reach Eastern Finals), for 2nd round pick at 2015 and for capdump Ryan Callahan. When Datsyuk is traded, forward Calle Järnkrok will be promoted from Grand Rapids. Cleary is traded to Pittsburgh Penguins, for a 2017 3rd rounder.

Jonathan Ericsson is on his final year, but his abysmal effort at Olympics (thanks to hip injury) reduces the asking price and he’ll fetch only a Philadlephia Flyers 2014 3rd rounder. Olli Määttä will be promoted from Grand Rapids to take Ericsson’s spot.

Alfredsson will go to Los Angeles Kings (instead of Marian Gaborik). For Matt Frattin and 2015 2nd round pick (Gaborik-price). Trade-dump Frattin will be send to AHL, but will be lost on waivers. Team will have now a very different look:

Franzen - Zetterberg - Nyquist
Tatar - Filppula - Callahan
Abdelkader - Helm - Järnkrok
Miller - Sheahan - Eaves
(Glendening, injured Todd Bertuzzi)

Kronwall - Smith
DeKeyser - Crossman
Määttä - Kindl
(Lashoff)

Howard
Gustavsson
(Mrazek)


New York Rangers will win the Stanley Cup, beating Los Angeles in the finals. Pavel Datsyuk will get the Conn Smythe Trophy, and will retire from NHL. Red Wings conditional 2nd becomes a first rounder.

During the end of the season, after losing Datsyuk, Alfredsson, Ericsson and Cleary, Red Wings started free-falling on the standings for 85 points. Florida did win the draft lottery and will select defenceman Aaron Ekblad as 1st overall, Red Wings will have 10th overall.

On 2014 Entry draft, they will pick Michigan-native Dylan Larkin as 10h overall. Larkin is viewed as the 4th best center talent after Reinhart-Draisatl-Bennett -trio, so this feels like a steal. He could not drop anyhow further than 10th. At least Jim Nill would have picked him at #14, for sure.

With their second 1st rounder (#30 overall) they got from Datsyuk-trade they will select RhD Jack Dougherty from from Wisconsin University. This pick will give some security, because if a 1 st round selected College player won’t sign, you’ll get a 2nd rounder as a compensation. Team is full of left-handed defencemen, so they go after another RhD, Roland McKeown on Wings own 2nd round pick. They will trade up to get #63 overall to select Dominic Turgeon, sending their own 3rd pick + extra 3rd got from Ericsson trade to Columbus.

2014 Entry draft:

1st round, #10 overall, C Dylan Larkin
1st round, #30 overall, RD Jack Dougherty (from Datsyuk-trade)
2nd round, #40 overall, RD Roland McKeown (keeping the own 2nd lost for Legwand)
3rd round, #63 overall, C Dominic Turgeon (they traded up for 13 positions, to get Turgeon)
4th round, #100 overall, F Christopher Ehn
5th round, #130 overall, G Chase Perry
6th round, #160 overall, F Julius Vähätalo
7th round, #190 overall, C Axel Holmström
7th round, #201 overall, C Alexander Kadeykin (extra 7th rounder got from San Jose for Brad Stuart's negotiating rights)

Own 3rd rounder + extra 3rd got for Ericsson traded to Columbus for that Turgeon-reach.

TO BE CONTINUED...


Last edited by Henkka: 07-18-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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07-17-2017, 05:31 PM
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Cyborg Yzerberg
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
What is the goal with this?
Good question. I'm sure there is a hypothesis here and the goal of the exercise is to prove the hypothesis. (Bad "science")

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07-17-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
What is the goal with this?
Probably to show how similar it would've turned out by his estimation.

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07-17-2017, 05:54 PM
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There is nothing estimable about this. Its a highly subjective hypothetical of which there are an infinite number.

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07-17-2017, 06:04 PM
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There is nothing estimable about this. Its a highly subjective hypothetical of which there are an infinite number.
Ding ding ding

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07-17-2017, 06:04 PM
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Regardless, it's an interesting thread with some thought put into it. Refreshing and I'm curious to see where it goes. Good job Henkka.

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07-17-2017, 07:09 PM
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Regardless, it's an interesting thread with some thought put into it. Refreshing and I'm curious to see where it goes. Good job Henkka.
Double down on this...most interesting/refreshing thread in quite awhile

subjective -yes, but no moreso than projecting what an 18 yr old might become

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07-17-2017, 07:41 PM
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Frk It
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Idk, but I totally should have married the girl I went to Junior Prom with. She turned into a real smoke show.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 07-17-2017 at 07:48 PM. Reason: QDP
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Old
07-17-2017, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Idk, but I totally should have married the girl I went to Junior Prom with. She turned into a real smoke show.
It all makes sense now. But I think it's really cool how you invented rock 'n roll and skateboarding after you realized that date was your mom.

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07-17-2017, 08:52 PM
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It all makes sense now. But I think it's really cool how you invented rock 'n roll and skateboarding after you realized that date was your mom.
Only because Marvin Berry injured his hand while getting you out of the trunk of his car.

And while we're living in Fantasyland... Only getting a conditional 2nd rounder and a 2015 2nd, in exchange for Datsyuk, while also taking a Rangers cap dump? Riiiiiiiight.

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07-17-2017, 10:35 PM
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I also enjoy fantasizing what it would've been like had the Wings had all their main guys throughout the 90's but had also made the following picks:

Joe Sakic instead of Yves Racine.
Jagr instead of Primeau.
And if they'd have been able to go through with the Pavel Bure pick before Vancouver got him.

The 90's may have been a lot more fun lol.

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07-17-2017, 10:38 PM
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When does "Third Reality" come out? Will this be a trilogy? Also will this universe have a shared universe like Marvel? Can we expect a crossover trilogy where our reality meets reality 664 where they team up to stop Mike Milbury from becoming the President of the United States?

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07-17-2017, 11:08 PM
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Cyborg Yzerberg
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When does "Third Reality" come out? Will this be a trilogy? Also will this universe have a shared universe like Marvel? Can we expect a crossover trilogy where our reality meets reality 664 where they team up to stop Mike Milbury from becoming the President of the United States?
This sounds like the plot of the Dead Zone with Christopher Walken.

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07-17-2017, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by waltdetroit View Post
Double down on this...most interesting/refreshing thread in quite awhile

subjective -yes, but no moreso than projecting what an 18 yr old might become
thirded, good work henkka.

And yes I do not care how accurate this is, I enjoy the adventure (and him using Martin St Louis and other actual deals as basis for our deals as a sound approach.

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07-17-2017, 11:51 PM
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Idk, but I totally should have married the girl I went to Junior Prom with. She turned into a real smoke show.
Mine turned into a drugged up stripper. Go figure.

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07-18-2017, 05:04 AM
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Henkka
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What is the goal with this?
I don't know even by myself where do we end up.

Maybe the sky falls or something.

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07-18-2017, 05:06 AM
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2014-15 will be interesting season. There will be Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel available on the becoming draft. Holland and others on the management discuss about possible tanking and going towards these talented kids.

But same problem comes out in discussions. Team isn’t anyhow enough bad, even though Datsyuk left. You would have to trade the older star core away, but you can’t because of those recapture penalties. Pavel leaving doesn’t weaken the team enough. At maximum they could drop to 80-point team, but there’s still 4 worse teams in the league. But the draft is deep, even if you pick on TOP5, there should be great players available.

***

At free agency Holland stands pat, and will let the season show the direction. If there’s chance for a playoff push, then buy some rentals, if team is out from the competition, then sell some people and open spots for kids.

On 2014-15 season Valtteri Filppula will eat most of Datsyuk’s minutes as a replacement center. Also Zetterberg will be pushed to wing to ease his skating and Babcock will use Sheahan as a 2nd line cneter, because he’ll want a bigger body to play against. Helm is locked to center the 3rd line, and this pushes Järnkrok to wing. He will get a little bit anxious about it. UFA Cleary will also get re-signed and he will return from Pittsburgh.

***

On february it looks obvious, that Red Wings are gonna fail to get on the playoffs again, and Holland considers trading Zetterberg, Franzen or Kronwall again on the deadline. Still the same problem, he can’t anyhow get reasonable deals because of those recapture penalties, which will make all of them untradeable. All contracts were signed before 2012 CBA rule change.

Holland sells only becoming UFA Grossmann to Washington on the trade deadline for a 4th round pick in 2015 + retiring capdump Jack Hillen and will keep his own picks. Cleary was also planned to be sold again as a rental, but his knees were so bad that no one will trade for him.

Määttä also will have a serious injury on the season, so Lashoff, Ouellet and Marchenko will have some extra games to play for.

When season is completed, Red Wings will end up to 90 points and get a #11 overall for the Entry draft. Oilers will win the draft lottery from 2nd worst spot and league-worst Buffalo will get the 2nd overall.

No surprises, McDavid goes to Edmonton and Eichel to Buffalo. Red Wings will select power-forward Lawson Crouse at #11 overall. Tyler Wright is smiling with the pick, we had to get bigger and tougher, and this man is perfect to our future plans. He’s big, huge body, goes net-front, great character.

2015 Entry draft:

1st round, #11 overall, LW Lawson Crouse (no Svechnikov)
2nd round, #41 overall, RD Erik Cernak (not traded for Erik Cole)
2nd round, #43 overall, C Roope Hintz (from Alfredsson -trade)
3rd round, #73 overall, RD Vili Saarijärvi
4th round, #101 overall, G Joren van Pottelberghe
4th round, #113 overall, LD Caleb Jones (from Crossmann -trade)
5th round, #131 overall, C Chase Pearson
6th round, #161 overall, RD Patrick Holway
7th round, #191 overall, W Adam Marsh

(Mattiases Bäckman and Janmark were not traded for Eric Cole and pick change from 2nd to 3rd never happens. Also 2016 3rd rounder for Marek Zidlicky will stay on Wings books for next draft).


TO BE CONTINUED...


Last edited by Henkka: 07-18-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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07-18-2017, 05:37 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by mjtm777 View Post
The Tyler Bertuzzi pick happens as he would most likely have still been available when the wind picked in the 3rd round.
Or the 7th since he was projected as undrafted.

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07-18-2017, 06:21 AM
  #24
Henkka
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Originally Posted by RedWingsfan55 View Post
Or the 7th since he was projected as undrafted.
Nah, on that Bertuzzi case, they pretty much knew that Jim Nill could be after Lil Bert at the 3rd, because two months before the draft he had been working on those Detroit 2013 draft lists with McDonnell. So extra pick from Mantha-trade down, why not using it that way. He was pretty much 4th best player from those 59-78 overall picked before Janmark. Only Pesce, Guentzel and Buchnewich I would like more if I could do that pick now. So 3/20 did hit better, still considered as a bad pick?

Nill left to Stars in April 2013 and McDonnell followed week after the 2013 entry draft.


Last edited by Henkka: 07-18-2017 at 06:29 AM.
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07-18-2017, 06:33 AM
  #25
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If I was to change ONE thing, I'd let Franzen walk in 2009 and re-sign Marian Hossa. The cap hits differ about 1,3M. Justin Williams made 1,5. So no Franzen and no Justin Williams and some more minor adjustments could have kept Hossa in Detroit.

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