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Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part IV

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Old
09-02-2017, 11:06 AM
  #976
Balthazar
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
Fair enough, I don't disagree with that viewpoint. I suppose where I would not agree is if you carry that out and say that the Avs should just trade Duchene for whatever they can get (not that you are saying that in particular). I don't think any organization can effectively sell their more valuable assets off at a steep discount and hope to be competitive down the road.

I never expected an under 25 NHL proven defenseman in return for Duchene, who only has two years left to UFA.

I would do a futures trade, but not with late first round draft picks as the centerpiece. I think Sakic has to get an NHL ready or close to NHL ready blue chip prospect in return, preferable a LHD prospect, but any blue chip prospect would do in my mind.
He has to get traded no matter what but Sakic needs to be active not passive and wait for better offers. If there are 2 or 3 teams offering players then take the best offer and call the other team(s) with it:

"Hi David, I'm trading Duchene this week and right now I'm offered Ryan Murray and PL Dubois, can you beat that?"

"Hi Ron, yeah I'm trading Matt this week...right now I've got an offer of Ryan Murray and PL Dubois...and another offer of Matthias Ekholm. Just calling if you want to beat that"

"Hi Garth...I'm trading Duchene this week..."

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Old
09-02-2017, 11:20 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
He has to get traded no matter what but Sakic needs to be active not passive and wait for better offers. If there are 2 or 3 teams offering players then take the best offer and call the other team(s) with it:

"Hi David, I'm trading Duchene this week and right now I'm offered Ryan Murray and PL Dubois, can you beat that?"

"Hi Ron, yeah I'm trading Matt this week...right now I've got an offer of Ryan Murray and PL Dubois...and another offer of Matthias Ekholm. Just calling if you want to beat that"

"Hi Garth...I'm trading Duchene this week..."
While I absolutely agree with Sakic messing this up by being not proactive, I am not sure that approach is the way to go right now.

I mean what do you do if the following happens?

"Hi everyone, I'm trading Duchene this week and right now I'm offered Ryan Murray and Boone Jenner, can you beat that?"

Answer: "No, thank you unless you are willing to take a future heavy deal which apparantely you are not"...


What then?

Back out and expose yourself as a liar and even further tarnish your reputation leaguewide?

Go through with that abomination of a trade?



Sorry. I don't know what is on the table right now but given that Sakic from what I've heard in all these rumors so far is scared to death of another mainly futures deal, there is no happy end for anyone in this one. That ROR deal in that regard really screwed us. Just listen to what Sakics best friend in the media Dater had to say about it in that recent hockeybuzz podcast. Sakic is not risking another one of these deals which makes this basically unsalvagable.

I am at the point where I am fine with keeping Duchene around for another few months.
My worst case is a Maatta + Sheary or Murray + Jenner kind of deal.
And IMO that would be the kind of deal we get if Sakic is forced into it unfortunately right now.

I mean as I repeatedly stated. Give me a pick in the mid teens in the 1st round at next years draft easily over that return.

And the only way Sakic will settle for futures might be if he has no other choice 12 months from now.

Does it suck? Hell yeah.

But the time to do the right thing with Duchene has long passed by. There is IMO no way out of this. Might as well ride it out and hope and pray that Duchene comes in with a chip on his shoulder and start off hot and get us something nice then.

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Old
09-02-2017, 11:24 AM
  #978
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I still believe Sakic and Kekäläinen will hammer out a deal.

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Old
09-02-2017, 11:46 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
I still believe Sakic and Kekäläinen will hammer out a deal.

CBJ fan coming in peace...

I certainly hope so. Hopefully something mutually beneficial will be agreed to so both teams can go into training camp with some certainty

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Old
09-02-2017, 11:50 AM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
IMO he's Brisson's mouthpiece, that's what's happening. I'm pretty damn sure he's close to the Duchene/Pastrnak camp and when he says stuff like "he doesnt want to leave the Colorado Avalanche with crashing waves and all kinds of bad blood" you need to read between the lines. It's Dreger doing the dirty work and putting pressure for them. If nothing's happening I wont be surprised if the Duchene camp asks for a trade publicly but they know it will look bad for both Matt and the AVS (and especially the AVS).

Hence this:
That actually makes sense. Dreger got the sit down interview with Duchene at Worlds too.

As far as the turnover, yeah it's nice that half of the bottom of the roster is turned over. But it all depends how the replacement pieces do. We were excited last year when a whole bunch of contracts were gone like Guenin and brought in guys like Colborne. We'll see.

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Old
09-02-2017, 12:30 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
He has to get traded no matter what but Sakic needs to be active not passive and wait for better offers. If there are 2 or 3 teams offering players then take the best offer and call the other team(s) with it:

"Hi David, I'm trading Duchene this week and right now I'm offered Ryan Murray and PL Dubois, can you beat that?"

"Hi Ron, yeah I'm trading Matt this week...right now I've got an offer of Ryan Murray and PL Dubois...and another offer of Matthias Ekholm. Just calling if you want to beat that"

"Hi Garth...I'm trading Duchene this week..."
See that is the rub in my eyes, everyone wants a trade immediately, and they are still expecting a great return. CBJ is not trading PLD for Duchene and Nashville is not trading Ekholm.

I don't believe that the Avs will get a great return if they trade Duchene now, and I fully expect those that were banging the drum the loudest for a trade will be the first ones screaming about Sakic trading Duchene for less than the moon.

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09-02-2017, 12:35 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
I still believe Sakic and Kekäläinen will hammer out a deal.
I hope so, but only because Kek will be the hammer. He seems like a GM that goes out and gets things done, hopefully he still wants Matty.

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Old
09-02-2017, 12:38 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
That actually makes sense. Dreger got the sit down interview with Duchene at Worlds too.
Yes, it's not like Dreger has a horse and this race anyway...he has no personal incentives at seeing Duchene traded to team X. He's clearly at work here and I can't believe some people dismiss it and think he's turning into Eklund.

Let's not forget that being in good graces of a major agent like Brisson is likely very useful for an insider. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

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Old
09-02-2017, 12:56 PM
  #984
Goulet17
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Yes, it's not like Dreger has a horse and this race anyway...he has no personal incentives at seeing Duchene traded to team X. He's clearly at work here and I can't believe some people dismiss it and think he's turning into Eklund.

Let's not forget that being in good graces of a major agent like Brisson is likely very useful for an insider. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
If Brisson is using Dreger to feed information rather than McKenzie, Friedman, or LeBrun than it would suprise me. Frankly, Brisson and Barry have never really seemed to operate that way, particularly in comparison to other agent's like Meehan, Walsh, or Overhardt.

Also, Brisson has worked with Sakic for a while, if he thinks that the Avs will operate to fold under media pressure from a Dreger type, he is a slow learner or worse. Anyone that has followed the Avs for any length of time knows that they would rather win on principle and destroy relationships and seemingly harm their own team than be perceived to have folded. It would seem like a foolhardy strategy rather than just going to Sakic and communicating. Barry, Brisson's partner, just facilitated the Kerfoot signing and Brisson still represents MacKinnon and EJ, so I am doubtful that the relationship is particularly frosty. It never really should be, it is all simply business.

In any event, this seems like a pointless exercise to me at this time. I wish you well.

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Old
09-02-2017, 01:55 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
(1) Really, okay, it would be extremely out of character for both men IMO, at least how they normally conduct themselves in public. In any event, I saw who did some of the reporting on that and those particular individuals had a vested interest in that scenario being true IMO, which makes me skeptical to say the least.

(2) Sakic handled it unprofessionally? Okay, I believe that people are going to view the situation in a manner that supports their already formed opinion. Let's just say that I do not agree fully. I believe that some pieces probably could have been handled better, but like everything in life, things are seldom that clear cut.
Everyone reported.

I said Duchene, not Sakic.

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Old
09-02-2017, 02:37 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
Everyone reported.

I said Duchene, not Sakic.
Fair enough on Duchene, although I am not sure he intentionally played the way he did. At the very least it certainly appeared as though he did not handle the pressure well, which is disconcerting.

"Everyone reported?" I am not sure how to respond to that due to
its vagueness.

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Old
09-02-2017, 02:45 PM
  #987
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Proof? Just because some beat writer for another said this doesn't make it fact and that's the only place I've ever heard that. So either offer up some real source to prove that Sakic and Brisson "got into it" at the draft or stop making up stuff to fit your narrative.

From all I know Sakic's never said anything to this nature, Brisson has never said anything, Duchene said anything, no Avs reporters/beat writers nothing.

Friedman said something to the extent that he thinks Brisson is frustrated with Sakic but that doesn't mean they got into it at the draft.
Where is your proof that they have a great relationship?

Believe what you want. Tons of people were talking about it, including normal fans who were there watching it take place. I'm not digging back through posts to prove something to you. I feel no need to prove anything to some random internet poster.

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Old
09-02-2017, 03:13 PM
  #988
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Odds on a deal happened after the holiday weekend?

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Old
09-02-2017, 04:54 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
Where is your proof that they have a great relationship?

Believe what you want. Tons of people were talking about it, including normal fans who were there watching it take place. I'm not digging back through posts to prove something to you. I feel no need to prove anything to some random internet poster.
Then stop making stuff up to fit your narrative. You can't just say stuff as fact with nothing to back it up. It's never been reported that the two guys "got into it" at the draft. They were seen together at the draft talking presumably about what the plan was for a trade. And it's general knowledge that Duchene and his agent are unhappy with how offseason had gone. But to suggest two guys getting into it at the draft is just not accurate what so ever.

Making a statement is prefectly fine as long is backed by something. I'm just sick and tired of people around here making stuff up to make their argument. This place has been a sess pool of misinformation this offseason.

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Old
09-02-2017, 05:01 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Then stop making stuff up to fit your narrative. You can't just say stuff as fact with nothing to back it up. It's never been reported that the two guys "got into it" at the draft. They were seen together at the draft talking presumably about what the plan was for a trade. And it's general knowledge that Duchene and his agent are unhappy with how offseason had gone. But to suggest two guys getting into it at the draft is just not accurate what so ever.

Making a statement is prefectly fine as long is backed by something. I'm just sick and tired of people around here making stuff up to make their argument. This place has been a sess pool of misinformation this offseason.
I don't know that it was a fight per se but it's been mentioned multiple places that Brisson was frustrated and showed it at the draft.

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09-02-2017, 05:30 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Then stop making stuff up to fit your narrative. You can't just say stuff as fact with nothing to back it up. It's never been reported that the two guys "got into it" at the draft. They were seen together at the draft talking presumably about what the plan was for a trade. And it's general knowledge that Duchene and his agent are unhappy with how offseason had gone. But to suggest two guys getting into it at the draft is just not accurate what so ever.

Making a statement is prefectly fine as long is backed by something. I'm just sick and tired of people around here making stuff up to make their argument. This place has been a sess pool of misinformation this offseason.
Like I said, I feel absolutely no need to prove anything to you. Just because I'm too lazy and apathetic to look up past posts doesn't mean it was made up. Tons of people were talking about how Sakic and Brisson had an unfriendly conversation at the draft.

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Old
09-02-2017, 05:41 PM
  #992
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I still don't see a deal happening anymore. I'll be really surprised. I hope I'm wrong though.

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Old
09-02-2017, 05:45 PM
  #993
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Great guy!

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Old
09-02-2017, 06:23 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by StayAtHomeAv View Post
Like I said, I feel absolutely no need to prove anything to you. Just because I'm too lazy and apathetic to look up past posts doesn't mean it was made up. Tons of people were talking about how Sakic and Brisson had an unfriendly conversation at the draft.
"Everybody knows it, so it must be true" isn't a really compelling argument. It's called "argumentum ad populum", and I was not too lazy to go and look that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argume...um?wprov=sfla1

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Old
09-02-2017, 06:33 PM
  #995
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Just stop, please.

Time for a new thread anyway

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