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2017-18 Training Camp and Preseason Thread

View Poll Results: Which new addition will we talk about the most (positivity) during TC/Preseason?
Jean-Christophe Beaudin, C 6 5.22%
Jonathan Bernier, G 1 0.87%
Tyson Jost, C 57 49.57%
Nicolas Meloche, D 7 6.09%
Andrei Mironov, D 14 12.17%
Dominic Toninato, C 2 1.74%
David Warsofsky, D 1 0.87%
Colin Wilson, LW 6 5.22%
Nail Yakupov, RW 19 16.52%
Any Other Rookie[List Below] 2 1.74%
Any Future PTO/Rookie Invite[List Below] 0 0%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-24-2017, 04:17 PM
  #51
the_fan
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Ok maybe go with..

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Andrighetto-Duchene-Yakupov

That's the problem, Duchene hasn't have much chemistry with anybody since ROR left. One other option is put him on a wing with MacKinnon. There was chemistry there, but then you gotta put Yakupov on the 3rd line.

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Duchene
Andrighetto-Jost-Rantanen

Again, I think Yakupov on the 3rd line is a complete waste of time and space

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Old
08-24-2017, 04:20 PM
  #52
henchman24
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Or just run Landy-Compher-Yakupov as a 2nd line then pair up Wilson-Jost-Duchene as a 3rd line. It becomes more of a top 9 than a top 6, but each grouping has particular strengths. MacK has to step into a legit #1C role for any of this to work regardless.

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08-24-2017, 04:21 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Beyond Landy and Duchene not working together... I also don't think Duchene is capable of being a top flight center anymore. Yeah he is good at faceoffs, but that is a small part of what being a center is all about. He is more explosive and dangerous from the wing now.
Duchene's face-off numbers are also inflated due to taking most of them on his strong side. He rarely takes them on his forehand. He pretty much always uses the same move as well. If he gets traded to a team that expects him to be a true go to face-off guy, his numbers will suffer a fair amount.

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08-24-2017, 04:23 PM
  #54
henchman24
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Duchene's face-off numbers are also inflated due to taking most of them on his strong side. He rarely takes them on his forehand. He pretty much always uses the same move as well. If he gets traded to a team that expects him to be a true go to face-off guy, his numbers will suffer a fair amount.
I agree with that. Duchene will still have top 10-15 numbers taking all faceoffs though. He is legit good at it now, but last year was inflated.

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08-24-2017, 04:30 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Or just run Landy-Compher-Yakupov as a 2nd line then pair up Wilson-Jost-Duchene as a 3rd line. It becomes more of a top 9 than a top 6, but each grouping has particular strengths. MacK has to step into a legit #1C role for any of this to work regardless.
I'd imagine Duchene will be suicidal, after all the trade talk, all that destruction, not being traded still on the Avs, now playing wing on the 3rd line LOL.....

I think Duchene might just lose it and hire a hit man to take out Sakic.

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08-24-2017, 04:43 PM
  #56
Cousin Eddie
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Can somebody sticky this article somewhere?
http://www.tsn.ca/duchene-and-landes...orado-1.812303

For the love of god, folks please stop wishing for Duchene and Landeskog to play together.

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08-24-2017, 04:43 PM
  #57
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Anyone have a link to that article breaking down how poorly Lando and Duchene have performed when together? That needs to be the reply every time someone puts Lando and Duchene on the same line. Keep those two the hell away from each other.
I think it could be different with Duchene playing RW on the line vs Center. Especially if Compher can thrive in that role.

E:
But I'm cool with Landy-Compher-Yak & Wilson-Jost-Duchene if they aren't clicking in camp.


Last edited by cgf: 08-24-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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Old
08-24-2017, 04:50 PM
  #58
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I think it would be different with Duchene playing RW on the line vs Center. Especially if Compher can thrive in that role.
Maybe it would, but we are in no position to be experimenting with a duo who has proven time and time again not to work. We need Duchene to produce.

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08-24-2017, 04:57 PM
  #59
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I agree with that. Duchene will still have top 10-15 numbers taking all faceoffs though. He is legit good at it now, but last year was inflated.
I think that's still probably pretty generous. They've been running the same plan for the last 2-3 years. They started experimenting with it under Roy. I believe in Roy's second year, and then Bednar carried it over, probably because of Army.

You can kinda see it in the numbers too. He's still good on face-offs, but nowhere near where he's been the last couple years.

50-54% is probably a more realistic percentage if he was used like a true face-off guy. The last two years especially have been pretty skewed IMO.

2010-11 - 50.4%
2011-12 - 51.2%
2012-13 - 54.6%
2013-14 - 50.3%
2014-15 - 52.2%
2015-16 - 57.9%
2016-17 - 62.6%

He's also taking fewer draws than the real face-off masters. He takes around 800-1200 a season. The top dogs take around 1600-1900.

2010-11 - 80 GP - 1246 face-offs
2011-12 - 58 GP - 391 face-offs
2012-13 - 47 GP - 893 face-offs
2013-14 - 71 GP - 1058 face-offs
2014-15 - 82 GP - 1217 face-offs
2015-16 - 76 GP - 739 face-offs
2016-17 - 77 GP - 1098 face-offs

MacKinnon has actually taken more draws in each of the last two years, especially last season.

2015-16 - 72 GP - 1047 face-offs
2016-17 - 82 GP - 1521 face-offs

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?s...=1&sortOrder=0

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08-24-2017, 05:00 PM
  #60
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Duchene takes plenty of weak side face offs. He's probably the only player on the team who takes them. He still gets more strong side than weak but the inflation in Duchene's face off stats aren't as big as it would be in everybody else on the team.

As Henchy said, he's legit really good at face offs.

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08-24-2017, 05:04 PM
  #61
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If Duchene went 50% on the other third last year, he still would have been at 55.4% (right around that 10-15 range depending on the faceoff cutoff). Basing him as a 54-56 guy seems about right now. He is legit good at faceoffs. Doesn't really matter to me though, that is about where I think his skills as a center lose their luster. Beyond that I think he is much more dangerous as a wing.

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Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Duchene takes plenty of weak side face offs. He's probably the only player on the team who takes them. He still gets more strong side than weak but the inflation in Duchene's face off stats aren't as big as it would be in everybody else on the team.

As Henchy said, he's legit really good at face offs.
MacK is the only player that consistently took weakside faceoffs, though Duchene was #2 behind him in that area quite clearly.

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08-24-2017, 05:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Duchene takes plenty of weak side face offs. He's probably the only player on the team who takes them. He still gets more strong side than weak but the inflation in Duchene's face off stats aren't as big as it would be in everybody else on the team.

As Henchy said, he's legit really good at face offs.
I'm sorry but this simply isn't true. The vast majority of his draws are on his strong side, and he uses the same move every time.

If he's put in that situation, he's very good though. The percentages reflect it. He's not tested like top face-off guys though who take way more face-offs, and way more on their off side.

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08-24-2017, 05:19 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
If Duchene went 50% on the other third last year, he still would have been at 55.4% (right around that 10-15 range depending on the faceoff cutoff). Basing him as a 54-56 guy seems about right now. He is legit good at faceoffs. Doesn't really matter to me though, that is about where I think his skills as a center lose their luster. Beyond that I think he is much more dangerous as a wing.



MacK is the only player that consistently took weakside faceoffs, though Duchene was #2 behind him in that area quite clearly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic MacK View Post
I'm sorry but this simply isn't true. The vast majority of his draws are on his strong side, and he uses the same move every time.

If he's put in that situation, he's very good though. The percentages reflect it. He's not tested like top face-off guys though who take way more face-offs, and way more on their off side.
I don't agree. I think Duchene took more weak side faceoffs than Mackinnon. Still as I said, he took more strong side than weak but I think Duchene had the highest percentage of weak side draws on the team.

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08-24-2017, 05:27 PM
  #64
henchman24
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I don't agree. I think Duchene took more weak side faceoffs than Mackinnon. Still as I said, he took more strong side than weak but I think Duchene had the highest percentage of weak side draws on the team.
Hard to say without raw numbers, but MacK's 4 most common linemates last year were Rants, Landy, Bourque, and Ghetto (in that order). Those 4 players totaled 190 faceoffs. MacK took 1521. He was taking the VAST majority of faceoffs when he was on the ice. With the number of faceoffs he took, the numbers really point to MacK taking 90++% of the faceoffs when he was on the ice. By the natural way of things, he has to be taking a large number of off hand faceoffs.

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08-24-2017, 06:22 PM
  #65
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I think desire the Duchene-Landy thing is the desire to load up the better players on one line. Some people loved those two with Mack on a line too. I think with the kids spreading out to three lines is best for now anyway.

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08-24-2017, 06:25 PM
  #66
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I think desire the Duchene-Landy thing is the desire to load up the better players on one line. Some people loved those two with Mack on a line too. I think with the kids spreading out to three lines is best for now anyway.
I really think they need to find a way to build a legit 2nd line matchup line, with Landy on wing. That's where he's at his best. Find an ROR style of player to put in the middle, and let the top line with Mack be the offensive line.

They're trying too hard to build chemistry where it doesn't exist. Landy is perfectly capable of playing smart offensive hockey, but with his hip issues, he just isn't a great fit with fast centers like Duchene or Mack. He can hang to an extent, it's just not his ideal fit.

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08-24-2017, 07:27 PM
  #67
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I really think they need to find a way to build a legit 2nd line matchup line, with Landy on wing. That's where he's at his best. Find an ROR style of player to put in the middle, and let the top line with Mack be the offensive line.

They're trying too hard to build chemistry where it doesn't exist. Landy is perfectly capable of playing smart offensive hockey, but with his hip issues, he just isn't a great fit with fast centers like Duchene or Mack. He can hang to an extent, it's just not his ideal fit.
Hopefully Soderberg returns to form...I really hope he and Bednar both took lots of enemas over the summer and have cleared that **** up they had going on all of last season.

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08-24-2017, 08:47 PM
  #68
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I really think they need to find a way to build a legit 2nd line matchup line, with Landy on wing. That's where he's at his best. Find an ROR style of player to put in the middle, and let the top line with Mack be the offensive line.

They're trying too hard to build chemistry where it doesn't exist. Landy is perfectly capable of playing smart offensive hockey, but with his hip issues, he just isn't a great fit with fast centers like Duchene or Mack. He can hang to an extent, it's just not his ideal fit.
This is why I think Compher will click with Landeskog really well. I could see Jost, but Compher just has the sand paper in his game to match.

Has Duchene ever really centered Landeskog for more than a couple of game stretch though? I know they have been together on the PK at times (toward the end of it). Some of their short handed opportunities were beautiful when Roy was in to putting offensive guys out to finish a PK.

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08-24-2017, 08:52 PM
  #69
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Sharks rookie roster isn't exactly exciting

https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/as...-file/file.pdf
You can disagree with me, but I see a lot of really underrated players there. Balcers, Blichfeld, Chekhovich, Gregor, Rod, Praplan, Wiederer, True, and Fitzgerald. To go alongside prospects like Chmelevski and Roy. I consider it better than last years team that's for sure.

I think Avs will have another deep team in terms of AHL prospect. Jost, Beaudin, Meloche, Martin, and perhaps even Mironov.

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08-24-2017, 08:54 PM
  #70
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You can disagree with me, but I see a lot of really underrated players there. Balcers, Blichfeld, Chekhovich, Gregor, Rod, Praplan, Wiederer, True, and Fitzgerald. To go alongside prospects like Chmelevski and Roy.
I'm a big fan of Chekhovich and Chmelevski but the rest, meh. Roy hasn't played hockey in nearly a year.

And yeah, the Avs will bring all the big names. Every young player except Mikko and Z basically.

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08-24-2017, 10:33 PM
  #71
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If Roy is healthy, he will likely be the best player on the ice. Rod and Wiederer are super underrated players.

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08-25-2017, 12:11 AM
  #72
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Wiederer in RN wasn't spectacular.

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08-25-2017, 03:08 PM
  #73
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08-25-2017, 03:13 PM
  #74
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God do I hope some of that gets streamed.

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08-25-2017, 03:17 PM
  #75
henchman24
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Wiederer in RN wasn't spectacular.
Wasn't relied on in a big role (more of a secondary scoring role), but I think he was plenty good there. 14 goals in 30 games is nothing to scoff at. Helped keep the 2nd line relevant in the playoffs too. I'm not saying he is a top prospect, but he is really underrated. Nobody knows who he is, and he is just a half step down from Beaudin as a prospect.

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