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Lions and Matt Stafford agree to 5 year deal worth 135 mil (27 mil per)

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08-31-2017, 03:09 PM
  #101
McCupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Who gives a **** about your arbitrary definition of what constitutes "carrying a team", as if that was some sort of measurable thing that anyone should take seriously. These types of conversations always involve moving goalposts. You wanted statistics, I gave you statistics. It's not my fault if you don't accept what they plainly lay out.
Ok, lets calm down a bit. I'll explain my "carrying a team" stance in a bit.
Also, your handpicked stats you showed don't show that Newton is clearly better than Stafford.

The reason why I mentioned role and carrying a team is because Stafford has been asked to pass a lot more because the Lions haven't had any semblance of a running game in his career and a porous defense outside of a few seasons that constantly puts the Lions behind in games forcing Stafford to throw more whereas Newton has been asked to be more of a game manager so he hasn't been asked to pass as much. Cam has had a better supporting cast in regards to running game and defense, flat out.
Sorry if that bothers you but role plays a factor here which is why I said before, it's hard to compare the two.

Stafford has put up bigger numbers but he also gets more opportunity to put up bigger numbers. Both have had issues with consistency, each had one great season, a bunch of good seasons and a few mediocre seasons.

All I'm saying is that I don't see any evidence that shows me that Cam is clearly better than Stafford in any metric outside of rushing TDs. Both are in that category of good but not elite.

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08-31-2017, 03:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by izlez View Post
They count for your team just as much as any other TD. Which is why Cam isn't a better player because he is given those opportunities to pad his stats.


I also like that you pick out a stat that highlights sack yardage. It's almost like offensive line is a big influence on that stat and the only reason Cam has had ONE good year is because he had an absolutely dominate offensive line. This stat and video can show you that
You know Carolina, the team known for having a great offensive line.

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Originally Posted by McCupofOil View Post
Ok, lets calm down a bit. I'll explain my "carrying a team" stance in a bit.
Also, your handpicked stats you showed don't show that Newton is clearly better than Stafford.

The reason why I mentioned role and carrying a team is because Stafford has been asked to pass a lot more because the Lions haven't had any semblance of a running game in his career and a porous defense outside of a few seasons that constantly puts the Lions behind in games forcing Stafford to throw more whereas Newton has been asked to be more of a game manager so he hasn't been asked to pass as much. Cam has had a better supporting cast in regards to running game and defense, flat out.
Sorry if that bothers you but role plays a factor here which is why I said before, it's hard to compare the two.

Stafford has put up bigger numbers but he also gets more opportunity to put up bigger numbers. Both have had issues with consistency, each had one great season, a bunch of good seasons and a few mediocre seasons.

All I'm saying is that I don't see any evidence that shows me that Cam is clearly better than Stafford in any metric outside of rushing TDs. Both are in that category of good but not elite.
I'll let you know when Carolina gets a Calvin Johnson where the QB can just chuck it into triple coverage and have him come down with the ball more often than not.

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08-31-2017, 03:22 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post


I'll let you know when Carolina gets a Calvin Johnson where the QB can just chuck it into triple coverage and have him come down with the ball more often than not.
He had arguably the best year of his career last year especially before the broken finger without Calvin so....

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08-31-2017, 03:24 PM
  #104
Gene Parmesan
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And Cam is the reason the Carolina run game is effective. His ball handling and decision making make it work. Its not as if Carolina lines up in an I formation. Its out of shotgun, with motion and mesh points that require quick recognition.

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08-31-2017, 03:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
You know Carolina, the team known for having a great offensive line.


How many of those plays does he have several seconds of a clean pocket, throwing to a receiver of 5+ yards separation? A lot.

Good luck having that your whole career (and good luck to Dak with that too)

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08-31-2017, 03:32 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by McCupofOil View Post
He had arguably the best year of his career last year especially before the broken finger without Calvin so....
Right, and that's why I would have picked him as my MVP if we were going by the actual definition of the award.

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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
And Cam is the reason the Carolina run game is effective. His ball handling and decision making make it work. Its not as if Carolina lines up in an I formation. Its out of shotgun, with motion and mesh points that require quick recognition.
Exactly. As a pure passer? I'd put several more QBs over him than I currently do. But his value goes beyond just the ability to throw the ball. To chalk it all up to "goal line carries" is laughable.

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08-31-2017, 03:40 PM
  #107
Gene Parmesan
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Cam still has issues with consistent ball placement on certain routes. He always will. He also makes impossible throws with defenders in his face with incredible precision.

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08-31-2017, 03:48 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Right, and that's why I would have picked him as my MVP if we were going by the actual definition of the award.
Exactly which is why I said before that he carries such a heavy load for that team. No running game, all the dropped passes, a defense that could NEVER make a big stop. Stafford was the Lions last season, rarely have I seen such a one man show in the NFL. Rodgers is in that category as well albeit playing at a much higher level.

Anyway, it's really hard to compare Newton and Stafford because they play vastly different roles for their respective teams. Nobody really compares to Cam in that respect, he's a unique talent.

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08-31-2017, 06:08 PM
  #109
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Debating "Quarterback X is better than Quarterback Y" - since 1983......

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08-31-2017, 06:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Which would be incredibly dumb.
It's also why I don't bother listening to local sports talk radio on a regular basis. You can just feel yourself becoming dumber.

I would also agree that Luck is better than Stafford. However, if Luck can't stay healthy and continues to sputter, then I might have to change my mind.

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09-01-2017, 07:19 AM
  #111
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Yikes

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09-08-2017, 09:37 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCupofOil View Post
Exactly which is why I said before that he carries such a heavy load for that team. No running game, all the dropped passes, a defense that could NEVER make a big stop. Stafford was the Lions last season, rarely have I seen such a one man show in the NFL. Rodgers is in that category as well albeit playing at a much higher level.

Anyway, it's really hard to compare Newton and Stafford because they play vastly different roles for their respective teams. Nobody really compares to Cam in that respect, he's a unique talent.
to add some perspective how bad the Lions run game has been:

In the 103 games Stafford has played the Lions have only had 7 individual 100 yard rushing games.

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