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theRocket - Bulis thread

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Old
04-09-2006, 01:23 AM
  #1
Mike8
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theRocket - Bulis thread

Let's keep it clean this time.

Apologies Saku K., for making you intervene. Hope it's no problem to revive the thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRocket
As for his game, his [Bulis] only visible weakness is that he gets pushed around quite easily along the boards, which does not allow him to win many battles for the puck. I definitely donít see as many downsides in his game as you do. It does not mean that he does everything else perfectly, yet I find him more effective in many other areas than Ryder and Zednik who have been doing exactly what you criticize Bulis for.
I've criticized Zednik and Ryder just as much. The only difference is there's a seeming cross-board agreement that Ryder's struggled this year when it comes to handling the puck and that he's especially deficient defensively.

Bulis has some fans and optimists pulling for him so he's attracted more discussion than those two. That's all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRocket
I think you mention that I donít back up my arguments with the concrete facts from the game? What facts are you looking for? In your posts I have not seen you discussing any concrete moments from the games. You just describe his overall game based on your subjective opinion so do I. Do you really want to discuss how Bulis has been playing? Lets start from the game against Devils.
Against the Devils, I didn't get a chance to watch too closely, but I didn't see much in the way of poor neutral zone play. Bulis did over-handle the puck and turn it over coming over the blueline in his usual fashion, but it's difficult to blame him for that given the stifling NJ defense and the amount that others (namely Kovalev and Ryder) turned the puck over tonight.

One problem Bulis has is that he doesn't seem to have any instincts with the puck. When he's in full flight, and has some room, he's decent with the puck. He'll occasionally cut to the high-slot and take a solid shot. Other times he'll streak in and take an easy-to-save shot off the wing, which is a waste of a rush. Tonight there were a few occasions where he'd cross the blueline with speed, stop on the side-boards and he'd be stuck not knowing what to do with the puck. Example of this:

Just after mid-way through the first period, with Montreal having all the momentum, Bulis crossed the blueline with speed, stopped on the sideboards. A NJ defenseman had taken away his shooting lane. A NJ forward was backchecking and bearing down on him, but Bulis had a couple of seconds to either skate with the puck deep and set up the cycle, use his speed and size to skate towards the net just to see what comes of it, or dump it in deep and allow his linemates to dig for it.

All of the above would be good viable options.

Bulis' choice was one he repeated several times later in the game: he shot the puck cross-ice (good chance for a turnover) into an empty corner. No Hab forward was skating in that direction and the two closest players to the puck were NJ players. This wasn't a dump-in as he had already gained the line.

End result: NJ gets the puck out of the zone and the Habs carry it back on the off-side (I believe), whistle called and faceoff in the neutral zone.

Then NJ gained momentum.

What he could have done: gently rung the puck along the boards to put it deep, eliminate any chance of a NJ defenseman intercepting the 'shot' Bulis made cross-ice for a quick turnover, and given more time for his linemates to read and react to the play and hopefully beat a Devil player to the puck. This would have continued momentum and the cycle game, in all likelyhood.


Another play that caught my eye with Bulis: Habs had the puck deep in their own zone. Outlet pass to Bulis who was skating along the Habs blueline, he finds himself skating into a NJ player, so he dishes the puck back to Streit, I believe it was. Streit was covered. Two NJ forwards submerged on Streit, forcing him to either turn the puck over or dump it up-ice. Streit chose the latter, and NJ gained puck posession.

These are some generic plays that can (and do) happen to every player, but they happen with Bulis more often than they do to others.

Koivu when he's going through bad periods will frequently make poor decisions with the puck around his own blueline in passing with Montreal defensemen. For the vast majority of his games, though, Bulis will make these poor decisions with the puck that leave his teammates in vulnerable positions or interrupt the flow in the team's game.

I'm not saying Bulis alone is responsible, or that he's as bad as Ryder defensively, but I think on a fundamental level that he plays well beyond his limitations. That's why I like Begin, Downey and Murray more than Bulis this year: those three play within their limitations. Bulis doesn't. If Bulis did, he'd be an effective player and key component to this team--and certainly better than Downey or Murray, who are very much fourth-line quality players.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRocket
As for Murray and his game, believe me Iím watching him. And lately he looks like a lost player who does not know where to go and what to do. He is running around a lot, but most of the time unproductively ( just like Bulis today). The only thing he does very consistently is getting himself in the slot. I canít say much more about his game lately cause he has been non factor in the last three games.
Murray's had some fine defensive plays the last few games. He had some excellent defensive zone coverage, taking the man in the high slot on two occasions (I believe once was Gionta), and blocked shots/forced turnovers.

There was one blocked shot right off a faceoff tonight where Murray gained control of the puck, fed it to Koivu which led to a strong sequence with a couple scoring chances. Those are the types of plays I expect of Murray. He sacrificed his body then quickly moved the puck to a capable puck-carrier (Koivu), then he went and crashed the net while Ryder & Koivu set up scoring opportunities.

This led to a flurry of chances over the next few shifts as Montreal gained momentum. A good blocked shot, leading to a quality rush up ice, which leads to a strong cycle game and scoring opportunities will lead to gained momentum.

Where Murray has failed, in my opinion, is mainly with puck reception off outlet passes. He turned the puck over at least three or four times just outside the blueline tonight, and that's unacceptable for a role player who's game is based on defensive ability & awareness. The second NJ goal was indirectly Murray's fault, as he coughed the puck up leading to that sequence.

He's still strong on the PK though. Doesn't need to receive passes there, just block shots, collapse around the slot, and bulldoze the puck into the neutral zone if the opportunity presents itself.

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Old
04-09-2006, 01:47 AM
  #2
TheRocket
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Sorry pal, think what you want but I have come to conclusion that Iím going to save my valuable time and wonít argue with you anymore. I have to admit that Iím really surprised that you opened a new thread and typed very detailed post for a troll like me who do not contribute just make ďhit and runĒ style of posts. Thatís really impressive, but kind of late. Talk to Slick Nick if he still wants to talk to you. Iím out.

Mods can close this thread if they feel so.

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04-09-2006, 07:20 AM
  #3
EagleBelfour
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You really open a new thread to contredict and bash another hf member. Must have take you a lot of time to write this post too.


How useless.

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04-09-2006, 07:34 AM
  #4
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I'm not sure to understand why we're talking so much about players like Bulis and Murray.

Personnaly, I'm enjoying the ride in this season's last moments, and I'll enjoy it in the playoffs. All I want from Bulis and Murray is that they give all they got in the upcoming playoffs.

That's it, because to me, these two are just placeolders.

Bulis. With all his recent comments and with the young guys developping, it's a sure thing he won't be with the club next year. To me, with 4 rookies and some others that are coming fast, The Habs are clearly in a transition phase. Plus Gainey clearly wants a team where everybody is happy to play his role, from first to fourth line. To me, that calls Bulis off. Same for Zednik.

Murray. C'mon guys. Dispite all his heart, Begin is still head and shoulders better than him, and the likes of Lapierre, Ferland, Chip all have bigger upside. I'm sure one will take his job next year, if not at the start of the season, then few weeks later. Murray won't be more than an insurance. Same could be said about Downey.

With our current rookies developping, with some other youngsters coming fast, with at least 1 or 2 UFA Gainey may sign to fill the holes no kids can fill, I'll just watch Bulis, Zednik, Murray and Downey give maybe their last shot as Habs players in the playoffs, no matter where they're playing.

Gainey knows better anyway how to win (or try to) a cup. He just wants lines where everybody has a role and are proud of doing it. He's still planning what he will do in the playoffs, depending on the team habs will face.

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04-09-2006, 08:04 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour
You really open a new thread to contredict and bash another hf member. Must have take you a lot of time to write this post too.


How useless.
I read no bashing in that post. Debate and contradiction are what we do here I thought. You can have the most left foeld arguement imaginable, but stae why, rather than just hinting that everyone with a different opinion must be an idiot.

I see players being evaluated somewhat like LePoche does. Bullis, though I hate just walking away from size and speed, probably has no future here. The way I see it is by comparing him to Ryder. I think they see Ryder as a guy who can get you between 30-40 goals while having flaws in his game. The challenge is to correct the flaws. Teach him little tricks in getting the puck out of his end, discipline him to surrender the puck on the rush sooner, whatever. He can score enough to make the work worthwhile and they can try and hide defeiciencies if he scores, whether on 5 on 5 or the pp. Bullis can do some things better, but not enough to justify the step down in offense. If you define your team by roles, Bullis doesn't seem to have one. Zed's had a terrible year, but has succeeded as a 'slot presence' type of player before. It's a bit mystifying why he doesn't get off shots at all anymore. Again, that's a challenge for the staff. We give up after a bad year, professional coaches have to try and work the problems out.


Murray is a decent grinder right now. If someone better at what he does comes along, Murray either has to expand what he can do, or get passed by. Right now,I think Carbo and Gainey like that he,like Begin will go out and do what they ask, within their abilities. Maybe Ferland,probably Lapierre, are on the way, so Murray may not be a lifer here, but who knows how he'll add to his game next year.

We're just talking about players and how they contribute to the makeup of the team. I think Mike'll admit that he has a certain fondness for the guys who fall into the grinder/plugger/agitator category, so do I. John Ferguson,Mario Tremblay and Mike McPhee are 3 of my all time favorites. You can be happy for these guys but still understand the roles that a team needs filled. There's no reason to close a thread until someone decides to make it a pissing contest, as our mods know. If evaluating these guys is of no interest, no one'll post.

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04-09-2006, 09:21 AM
  #6
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I think some of our posters are failing to recognize one important aspect of on-ice success. While talent and ability are vital, there are other intangibles that are invaluable as well. When I worked for a Junior A hockey team in Alberta, our GM looked for those intangibles to fill out the roster. The reality is that you can't have four lines of skilled hockey players. You have to add pluggers and grinders for various reasons. I saw a piece on Bonk on TSN recently. He was asked about the chemistry he appears to have with Begin. His response was that Begin adds energy to anyone on the ice because he works so hard and hits everything in sight. Bonk has been energized by his play and it is obvious that Murray is a similar "energy" type of player. While Bulis is a reasonably skilled hockey player, his play this season has been inconsistent and if there is one thing Gainey has established clearly it's that consistent effort is required...not an optional thing. While Murray may not have the talent or ability that Bulis possesses, he provides consistent effort and adds the sandpaper quality that this Habs team desperately needs.

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04-09-2006, 10:17 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour
You really open a new thread to contredict and bash another hf member. Must have take you a lot of time to write this post too.


How useless.
How in the world did I bash another HF member in this post?

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Old
04-09-2006, 10:22 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Murray is a decent grinder right now. If someone better at what he does comes along, Murray either has to expand what he can do, or get passed by. Right now,I think Carbo and Gainey like that he,like Begin will go out and do what they ask, within their abilities. Maybe Ferland,probably Lapierre, are on the way, so Murray may not be a lifer here, but who knows how he'll add to his game next year.
Nice post, and I do agree.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieHabber
I think some of our posters are failing to recognize one important aspect of on-ice success. While talent and ability are vital, there are other intangibles that are invaluable as well. When I worked for a Junior A hockey team in Alberta, our GM looked for those intangibles to fill out the roster. The reality is that you can't have four lines of skilled hockey players. You have to add pluggers and grinders for various reasons. I saw a piece on Bonk on TSN recently. He was asked about the chemistry he appears to have with Begin. His response was that Begin adds energy to anyone on the ice because he works so hard and hits everything in sight. Bonk has been energized by his play and it is obvious that Murray is a similar "energy" type of player. While Bulis is a reasonably skilled hockey player, his play this season has been inconsistent and if there is one thing Gainey has established clearly it's that consistent effort is required...not an optional thing. While Murray may not have the talent or ability that Bulis possesses, he provides consistent effort and adds the sandpaper quality that this Habs team desperately needs.
Agreed.

I do wonder if Bulis, when he's skating hard and forechecking hard, if he adds any sort of energy to the club.

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04-09-2006, 10:27 AM
  #9
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If Begin is out for long, we may find out if his speed can replace Begin's intensity alongside Bonk. it could work out, if they can get Bullis on the same page with the line's role.

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04-09-2006, 10:29 AM
  #10
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TheRocket seems to be petulant and hypersensitive. Pourquoi? I thought the post by Mike8 expressed his opinion about hockey players, not an assault on another poster.

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Old
04-09-2006, 10:33 AM
  #11
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I don't know, I think Begin's sand-paper, never-say-die attitude and ability to get under an opponent's skin and throw them off their game in a 7-game series is invaluable here. He was nicely effective against the Bruins last playoffs, and his game's only improved since then.

I'm not sure I like the Murray-Bonk-Downey line much. Murray and Downey are both too limited with the puck to give that line many minutes it seems to me. So Bulis could be a decent alternative in Murray's place there.



I have to say I'm a little surprised the coaching staff is sitting Zednik now. I was certain Gainey and co. were playing Zednik and not Bulis because of Zednik's history as being clutch, and the hope that he'd step it up when the playoffs came around. Do you think the staff just got tired of him? I'm curious to see if he gets another chance.

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04-09-2006, 11:01 AM
  #12
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If we want (A) to make it in the playoffs and (B) do something good once we're there, we will absolutely need that Bulis or Zednik (hopefully both) get their game together and provide us with decent scoring.

Higgins is really hot right now, but he can't be that hot forever and once that streak is over who's gonna score???
Ryder has been struggling lately, Ribs and Koivu aren't really goal scorers (playmakers)...

So who's left on that roster?
Bonk, Sunny, Murray, Downey, Begin, Perez, Pleks, Kovy, Bulis and Zednik.
We can't count on Kovy to do everything all by himself... so who else can score on a regular basis?
Of those players, can we agree Zednik and Bulis are the greatest offensive threat?

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04-09-2006, 11:23 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I don't know, I think Begin's sand-paper, never-say-die attitude and ability to get under an opponent's skin and throw them off their game in a 7-game series is invaluable here. He was nicely effective against the Bruins last playoffs, and his game's only improved since then.

I'm not sure I like the Murray-Bonk-Downey line much. Murray and Downey are both too limited with the puck to give that line many minutes it seems to me. So Bulis could be a decent alternative in Murray's place there.



I have to say I'm a little surprised the coaching staff is sitting Zednik now. I was certain Gainey and co. were playing Zednik and not Bulis because of Zednik's history as being clutch, and the hope that he'd step it up when the playoffs came around. Do you think the staff just got tired of him? I'm curious to see if he gets another chance.

I think players like Begin, and to some degree Murray, were made for the playoffs. The ice surface shrinks in the post-season and Begin's energy and toughness will be invaluable to the team.

I have to admit, I'm not a fan of goons and I wasn't particularly thrilled when they picked up Downey. I have been pleasantly surprised at what he has brought to the table. He has some Begin-like qualities and I don't think it's a coincidence that the team has improved after he came to the team. I would add the same with Murray. I think they were lacking grit and were generally an easy team to play against. Now that Komi and Souray are playing like they are capable of, and Rivet is playing a strong game, the team has a better balance of toughness and skill.

I am a little shocked at Zednik's poor season. I would have thought that his strong skating ability and offensive skill would have flourished alongside Koivu this year. I do hope he brings his usual clutch scoring into the playoffs. I agree with your assessment that the coaches were likely at the end of their rope and saw no other alternative than to scratch him for a few games. Hopefully it will light a fire.

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Old
04-09-2006, 05:23 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
I read no bashing in that post. Debate and contradiction are what we do here I thought. You can have the most left foeld arguement imaginable, but stae why, rather than just hinting that everyone with a different opinion must be an idiot.

I see players being evaluated somewhat like LePoche does. Bullis, though I hate just walking away from size and speed, probably has no future here. The way I see it is by comparing him to Ryder. I think they see Ryder as a guy who can get you between 30-40 goals while having flaws in his game. The challenge is to correct the flaws. Teach him little tricks in getting the puck out of his end, discipline him to surrender the puck on the rush sooner, whatever. He can score enough to make the work worthwhile and they can try and hide defeiciencies if he scores, whether on 5 on 5 or the pp. Bullis can do some things better, but not enough to justify the step down in offense. If you define your team by roles, Bullis doesn't seem to have one. Zed's had a terrible year, but has succeeded as a 'slot presence' type of player before. It's a bit mystifying why he doesn't get off shots at all anymore. Again, that's a challenge for the staff. We give up after a bad year, professional coaches have to try and work the problems out.


Murray is a decent grinder right now. If someone better at what he does comes along, Murray either has to expand what he can do, or get passed by. Right now,I think Carbo and Gainey like that he,like Begin will go out and do what they ask, within their abilities. Maybe Ferland,probably Lapierre, are on the way, so Murray may not be a lifer here, but who knows how he'll add to his game next year.

We're just talking about players and how they contribute to the makeup of the team. I think Mike'll admit that he has a certain fondness for the guys who fall into the grinder/plugger/agitator category, so do I. John Ferguson,Mario Tremblay and Mike McPhee are 3 of my all time favorites. You can be happy for these guys but still understand the roles that a team needs filled. There's no reason to close a thread until someone decides to make it a pissing contest, as our mods know. If evaluating these guys is of no interest, no one'll post.
In fairness to theRocket, Mike8 was bashing him on a previous thread and the mods had to lock the thread to prevent Mike8 from his bashing, hence the reason this thread was started to apologize to the mods and one of the users.

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Old
04-09-2006, 05:30 PM
  #15
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I'm sorry Mike8

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04-09-2006, 05:50 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock
In fairness to theRocket, Mike8 was bashing him on a previous thread and the mods had to lock the thread to prevent Mike8 from his bashing, hence the reason this thread was started to apologize to the mods and one of the users.
I think the 'bashing' was mutual, and you can do without speaking for other people's (the moderator in question) motivation in closing the thread.

Keep this subject on hockey, and not on personal issues please.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrairieHabber
I am a little shocked at Zednik's poor season. I would have thought that his strong skating ability and offensive skill would have flourished alongside Koivu this year. I do hope he brings his usual clutch scoring into the playoffs.
With Begin's injury, it looks likely that Zednik will get a few games to show some fire. If he doesn't show anything more than he has already--I question whether he'll even get a game in the playoffs...

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Old
04-09-2006, 11:21 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I think the 'bashing' was mutual, and you can do without speaking for other people's (the moderator in question) motivation in closing the thread.

Keep this subject on hockey, and not on personal issues please.
You made this thread a personal issue when you included TheRocket's handle in the thread title. I thought I was sticking to the topic and clarifying the issue for another member. If you didn't want the issue to be public you could have simply apologized via private message.

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04-10-2006, 10:32 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock
You made this thread a personal issue when you included TheRocket's handle in the thread title. I thought I was sticking to the topic and clarifying the issue for another member. If you didn't want the issue to be public you could have simply apologized via private message.
I re-read the post. How is this a personal issue? He was responding to a post from a closed thread in which he was unable to respond, so he cites the poster in a new thread to continue the debate. It's entirely about hockey, so what's the problem? There's absolutely nothing personal about it. Am I getting personal because I've quoted someone's post? That's just silly.

What's with all the overly sensitive reactions in this thread?

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04-10-2006, 11:10 AM
  #19
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Bulis has to add toughness. That's what he is really missing. In the defensive end, he will try to quickly tap the puck out to avoid a hit or any physical retribution. That creates turnovers. On offense, he will often surrender the puck just because he's afraid of taking a hit again.

You can't really have many of those guys on your lineup, if at all on a Gainey/Carbonneau team. At last, our team will be a gritty and grinding team, and hopefully will bring us playoff success once again.

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04-10-2006, 11:29 AM
  #20
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Nice to see you're still around, anon!

Smail: I agree. But I would say that you can't have any of those types of players in your lineup.

If we look at New Jersey, I believe they're the only team in the league that has consistently been able to play a stifling defensive system for over a decade. Sure, they have break-downs, but they have consistently sacrificed talent for fundamentally very strong players.

There's a reason players like Pandolfo, who are more or less dime a dozen players, can last in NJ for so long when they'd normally be journeymen elsewhere. He provides an honest effort and strong board-work & fundamentals.

When players show signs of laziness, like Arnott had, or Rolston, they are moved.

No team can match NJ's strength in work ethic and strong play along the boards. Every team sacrifices some of that for scoring. I would say Montreal's 'weak-links' that couldn't find themselves playing in NJ for long would be (based on this year): Bulis, Zednik, and Ryder. Kovalev's debatable and I think Ribeiro's a Gomez-type player. Gomez was not always good in all three zones, and Ribeiro is better than average in the neutral zone (in my opinion).

I'm curious to see if Gainey and Carbonneau look to build Montreal as strictly 'to-the-system' as the Devils do. My guess is they won't, and will stick to judging players by roles they play for the club, as mcphee has suggested.

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04-10-2006, 12:06 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Nice to see you're still around, anon!

...
Yes, the boards provide a good little escape and distraction from work. Typing posts like this one aids in the appearance that I'm actually working on something. In case the office IT department is monitoring this, please note the sarcasm.

Always enjoy reading your posts, Mike. The Pandolfo example is a perfect one. I think in New Jersey, Bulis and Zednik would have been benched or traded earlier in the season. Gainey strikes me as more patient than anyone else in the game. I hope Carbonneau will be less so and will be inclined to bench lazy players more often.

Smail, I think the lack of toughness applies to Sundstrom more than Bulis. Bulis' bigger problem to me is that his brain appears to shut off unpredictably, which leads itself to laziness and poor discipline. Sundstrom is a smarter hockey player. If he wasn't afraid of the puck's shadow, he'd be quite valuable. Bulis, on the other hand, is not only soft but he's getting increasingly dumber it seems.

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04-10-2006, 12:21 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Apologies Saku K., for making you intervene. Hope it's no problem to revive the thread.

Glad to hear Saku_k is still alive!!

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Old
04-10-2006, 12:47 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anon
I re-read the post. How is this a personal issue? He was responding to a post from a closed thread in which he was unable to respond, so he cites the poster in a new thread to continue the debate. It's entirely about hockey, so what's the problem? There's absolutely nothing personal about it. Am I getting personal because I've quoted someone's post? That's just silly.

What's with all the overly sensitive reactions in this thread?
Please refer to theRocket's response after the initial post was made to start the thread. I'm not even having this conversation.

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Old
04-10-2006, 12:53 PM
  #24
Tricolore#20
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,229
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The vendetta that people seem to have for one another has caused another thread to close. Please don't take part in it if you can avoid it.

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