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04-11-2006, 07:48 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
Cross checked after the whistle. Peckham mugging Schremp. Bolland spun around by the linesman. The whole thing was done by Bolland. All that effort to make minimal contact with a skate against Angelidis thigh pad. Sure! It was all his doing.
So poor Bolland is totally innocent in this whole thing? Now I've heard everything!

Bolland is responsible for his actions - even if he refuses to admit it. HE is the only reason he's sitting in the pressbox.

Oh... and if you believe that Owen Sound are the only ones pulling crap after the whistle, you really are using your Knightvision goggles to the fullest extent.

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04-11-2006, 08:01 PM
  #27
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Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl
I'm not sure where you're going with the Valabik vs Foreman thing... I didn't see the play, so I can't comment on it. If it went down as you say, then it should have been called.

We obviously have differing views of whether Bolland's kick was accidental or intentional. I do agree that it can't possibly be considered intent to injure though.

I think I understand your point - a high stick that draws blood gets 4 minutes; making a kicking motion gets 4 games. The only answer I have is that a kicking motion is a deliberate action; a high stick (other than swinging the stick) happens in the course of a game, and happens so quickly that it's almost impossible for a ref to determine whether it's accidental or intentional (I do think that the vast majority are the result of carelessness).

If a 4-game suspension were handed down for every high stick infraction, maybe players would learn to have more control over their sticks. There would also be a number of nights where teams couldn't play due to lack of players -- so that rule is never going to be introduced.
I am glad you are seeing a bit of what I am trying to say. I am not saying it to excuse anything that happened in game two in Owen Sound. What I am saying is that the league does not seem to have a discipline system that makes sense.

There are deliberate acts done solely by an individual. There are accidental acts. And there are accidental acts with contributing factors.

All I am saying is that any infraction should be handled the same way when giving a suspension or penalty. Whether it be skate stick or whatever. The league does not seem to do that. Some infractions are almost accepted. How many 5 minute penalties do you see any more? 4 minutes is the new flavour. 4 minutes for spearing or boarding are a couple of my favourites I have seen. Meanwhile all the crap keeps escalating.

Skate contact is serious and I recognize that. Any incident requires some kind of discipline. Now obviously the league recognizes that Bolland did not deliberately kick Angelidis or I am certain the penalty would have been much more severe. If I really thought it was deliberate I would agree. The contact was accidental and he was being spun around. To think being spun around had no influence on the event makes no sense at all.

Giving a 2 and a half game suspension would be much more sensible in this incident, unless of course the player had a history, which is not the case.

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04-11-2006, 08:27 PM
  #28
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No!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl
So poor Bolland is totally innocent in this whole thing? Now I've heard everything!

Bolland is responsible for his actions - even if he refuses to admit it. HE is the only reason he's sitting in the pressbox.

Oh... and if you believe that Owen Sound are the only ones pulling crap after the whistle, you really are using your Knightvision goggles to the fullest extent.
The point is not that London never does this, because when they had the type of players to do it they did. But that has nothing to do with what happened in this specific incident. The point is that Owen Sound gained from it by starting the altercation and you want to pretend it is not connected. The incident is further complicated by the acts of the linesman. But that doesn't matter either you say. But you want to insist that it was all Dave Bolland.

There was no deliberate kick. Angelidis attacked Bolland first. The linesman was spinning him around. It's obvious there was more than Dave Bolland in this incident. If it was a criminal case do you think that Angelidis would be getting off scot free? His actions would make whatever ensued aggrievated at worst. It was certainly not premeditated on Bolland's part. And what if Bolland was injured by the cross check? Angelidis certainly wasn't hurt. Like I said, is attacking a guy deliberately with your stick so acceptable? You certainly want to ignore it.

It was all Bolland. Sure!

Whatever googles you are wearing please clean them.

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04-11-2006, 09:06 PM
  #29
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You've said a lot of things that don't make sense either, "I didn't do it" JHF. I'll call you Bart Simpson from now on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
Don't give me that "I don't care who wins routine" Laser Trippy. It doesn't play out at all. You will accuse me of bias while you put your own spin on things so let's not pretend here. You are not any less biased than I am in the matter. Like a Guelph fan doesn't care who wins this series? Who do you think you are kidding?
Why do I have to care who wins? London is an extremely talented offensive team and Owen Sound is a hard-working, physical team. Both have different strengths and use them to the utmost advantage. Either one is capable of beating Guelph, I really don't care who we face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
You already said:"It was a kick, but not a hard one with any potential to injure." So obviously you know that there was no force in the action. So if it was a deliberate kick, why do it that way? It makes no sense. It served no purpose in any context. And guess what? The league has to know that it was not deliberate too. Because if they thought it was he would be done period!
Watch the tape again and watch his left foot. See how as he's spinning it comes up a little bit before landing and then the right one comes flying up and all the way back? The left foot is how I'd expect him to retain his balance while spinning, the right is how I'd expect someone to kick backwards like a horse would.

I said the kick didn't have any potential for injury because of the position he was in when he made it. How hard can someone really kick backwards while on skates? Not only that, he was kicking into a heavily padded area. No potential for injury. Still a kick.

Of course it served no purpose to an outside observer. It was stupid and none of us would think something like that is warranted. But guess what? In the heat of battle, athletes do stupid things. Ever seen a football player punch another guy in the groin along the line of scrimmage? What purpose does that serve? It's dumb and it only hurts your team, but they still do it if they're riled up for whatever reason. Clearly Bolland was steamed over his treatment at the hands of Angelidis. I've already said that I can understand doing something out of frustration, it happens to the best of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
The kid has zero history of anything like this. He didn't have to release a statement at all, but he did. I see no reason to not give him the benefit of the doubt when it was such a non-event. Of course you being so unbiased can't see it that way at all. Better to believe the "just making a joke laser Angelidis" who formulated an opinion from replays??? Think about that in the context of judging the event strictly by the limited video tape. Perhaps he realizes that it looks worse than what he actually experienced?
You're right, he didn't have to release a statement, and he shouldn't have. He just looks like a whiny kid who refuses to admit the truth to save his own reputation. His public criticism of the league should garner an extra game or two.

I WILL believe Angelidis' story because the video clearly shows he was kicked. I don't care if he exaggerated it for the sake of humour or anything else. He was kicked, plain and simple. How you can be such a homer and not see it is really beyond me. I'd love to know if you post on the NOOF or any other junior board. I haven't seen a London fan this interested in sticking up for Bolland's "innocence" anywhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
As for the league? What are they going to do? Admit that a league official played a part in the incident? Admit that the officials had no control of the game, when it was clear they were doing a poor job of it both ways? It took them until after 3 pm Monday to figure out what to say. That spoke volumes to me.
The league won't say anything because Bolland could have remained in control of his skate, far beyond what he did in this instance. He made a kicking motion to his rear and connected with another player. Why should the league take responsibility for that? It's easy to see why they would take the "kicking" side of the argument as opposed to the "it's the linesman's fault" side.

I'm not surprised it took them until Monday. It's a sensitive issue. It's the impenetrable London Knights, how do they decide on a suspension to one of the Golden Boys? Fortunately for their credibility, they finally made the right call. The only thing that "spoke volumes" about the time of the press release is that it's clear they don't work Sundays, even in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
The kid should be held responsible for maintaining control of his equipment, i.e stick, skates, etc. But when it is obvious he is being spun around, by an official no less, that responsibilty has to be reduced a bit. 2 (and a half) games would be fair and recognize all the factors involved. An automatic 4 playoff games is not on par with what happened in the regular season. That is obvious to anyone who at least tries to be fair about this. Otherwise, I think Ouzas should have gotten 8 games because it is clear that he was trying to kick a player without any external factors. Instead he missed four regular season games. Big whoop.
So now by admitting 2 games would have been an appropriate suspension, you're admitting he's at least partially guilty? So he did make a kicking motion? I thought it was the linesman's fault! I though he didn't kick, I thought he was being spun around! Why would someone get suspended for being spun around?

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Old
04-11-2006, 09:21 PM
  #30
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[QUOTE=JrHockeyFan]The deadly pirouette skate slap. Quite frankly, regardless of who it was getting this penalty, I wouldn't believe that 4 games was warranted by any stretch. I might have been less sympathetic, as Owen Sound fans (and some others) have been, but it would be baloney regardless.[quote]

A kick is a kick, it's simply not permitted in hockey.

Quote:
I have watched this replay so many times I am sick of it, but clearly he is being turned around on one foot by the linesman. You can discount it all you want to but the linesman spun him around, period. To say it played no role in the incident is just wrong.
I"m no Hercule Poirot, but I think I can figure out what has happened here. You read Dale Hunter's statement in the paper, translated that to fact, posted it, then when you saw the video you didn't want to retract your statement so as to not look foolish.

You look more foolish by watching that video and thinking the linesman cause his leg to lift like that.

Quote:
Meanwhile Koverko hits Kostitsyn in the face with a stick, draws blood, and gets 4 minutes with 1:46 left to play.
Yes.

It's called a high sticking penalty?
Quote:
The Owen Sound strategy has been pretty obvious. Gang up on the best players with cheap shots and see what happens, just like Angelidis did with a cross check.
Did you like that hit from behind on Bartanus that kept him out for a game and is now playing with a wrist problem?

There are fans of many different teams telling you that you are wrong, and what you are seeing is distorted.

But you continue your ridiculous tirade

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Old
04-11-2006, 09:22 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan

PS: all things considered, the cross check by Angelidis was a much more violent act that really started things.
No.

Of course, you didn't watch the game and you can't see Bolland hammering over Ouzas, which started the scrum.

Nice try.

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04-11-2006, 09:25 PM
  #32
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By the way. I thought Bolland's statement was an embarrasement to the OHL.

I'd also like to say I've been very low key this series and trying to just talk hockey and met a lot of vrey nice Knights fans, but your argument of this and distortion is incredible.

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Old
04-11-2006, 11:15 PM
  #33
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Im a knight fan but damn stick a fork in the knights they are done the 4 games will hurt the team alot. 4 games? come the hell on even if Bolland tried to kick him, the ref was pushing Bolland around, a ref should not push a player around. The ref gets nothing after this? thats total ********, I 100% agree with Bollands statement that he made. I really dont think Bolland wanted to kick in that derection i mean come on the kid is one of the most respected kids in the OHL.If the knights somehow come back in the series Bolland will come back on a major tare, because he is pissed.

After this i cant wait to see what happens tomorrow in game 4!

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04-11-2006, 11:43 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight44
Im a knight fan but damn stick a fork in the knights they are done the 4 games will hurt the team alot. 4 games? come the hell on even if Bolland tried to kick him, the ref was pushing Bolland around, a ref should not push a player around. The ref gets nothing after this? thats total ********, I 100% agree with Bollands statement that he made. I really dont think Bolland wanted to kick in that derection i mean come on the kid is one of the most respected kids in the OHL.If the knights somehow come back in the series Bolland will come back on a major tare, because he is pissed.

After this i cant wait to see what happens tomorrow in game 4!
Do you want the linesman suspended and have it posted on ontariohockeyleague.com?

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04-11-2006, 11:50 PM
  #35
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What can I say about the incident. It was a stupid play by Bolland but I don't think the intent was there.

Why he got 4 games I don't know. It's the playoffs and Branch was giving 4 games for other guys during the regular season. I'm a big proponent of punishment not being as severe during the playoffs because the strength of games.
Also with Bolland's record, this is out of the ordinary so why he got this type of punishment I don't really know.

But the incident could have been avoided had Bolland not been stupid when he was spun around by the ref. His foot was kicked up. He had to bend his knee to get it to do what it did. Spinning doesn't force you to bend your knee.

Regardless, Bolland or not, if the Knights don't start showing up for full games they aren't going to beat the Attack. Down 2-1 right now they played horrible in Games 2 and 3.

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04-11-2006, 11:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyime
Do you want the linesman suspended and have it posted on ontariohockeyleague.com?
Actually that would be pretty nice to have happen. Officials get away with an awful lot without any reprocussions. You can't constantly berate them, but if they really screw up I think they should be made accountable just as much as the players are stuck with.

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04-12-2006, 12:40 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London Knights
Actually that would be pretty nice to have happen. Officials get away with an awful lot without any reprocussions. You can't constantly berate them, but if they really screw up I think they should be made accountable just as much as the players are stuck with.
I agree with this. Refs, at all levels, should be held accountable for severe mistakes. Everyone has someone to answer to, it just seems some people get a free ride. That said, I don't see this linesmans actions being totally unnecessary.

As for the suspension being less in the playoffs, for certain things I agree, but not for this. A clear standard was set and you must go by that logic. A tripping penalty isn't a 1 minute penalty, an intent to injury penalty isn't 3:45 and a kicking penalty shouldn't be any less either. Had it beeen a fight or something where both parties involved were suspended, then I could see the league lowering a suspension, but not in this instance.

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04-12-2006, 01:35 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London Knights
Actually that would be pretty nice to have happen. Officials get away with an awful lot without any reprocussions. You can't constantly berate them, but if they really screw up I think they should be made accountable just as much as the players are stuck with.
While I agree refs should be held accountable, and I believe in their own world they are, what happened in this case cannot be blamed on the ref, nor was the ref in the wrong at all. His job is to break up confrontations and he did just that. In fact, I think he did Bolland a favour (within the immediate timeframe of the incident). Going up against Angelidis is not the best situation for Bolland to be in.

The ref (linesman) cannot be blamed for what Bolland did and shouldn't be held accountable for anything in this instance.

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04-12-2006, 07:02 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London Knights

Why he got 4 games I don't know. It's the playoffs and Branch was giving 4 games for other guys during the regular season. I'm a big proponent of punishment not being as severe during the playoffs because the strength of games.
Also with Bolland's record, this is out of the ordinary so why he got this type of punishment I don't really know.
Because there was a precedent set. And you need to follow it. Ouzas got four games for pushing an opponent out of his crease with his leg earlier.

If it's a kick, it's a kick and it's unacceptable.

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04-12-2006, 09:08 AM
  #40
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Another sad story coming from London,

Hunter miffed with broadcasters

By MORRIS DALLA COSTA, FREE PRESS SPORTS COLUMNIST


EDIT: Due to copyright rules please only post a link to the article and quote a small portion to highlight your point.


Last edited by Spitfire11: 04-13-2006 at 05:14 PM.
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04-12-2006, 09:11 AM
  #41
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If these are the same two men that I am thinking of, I was under the impression that they were doing a great job. Of all the broadcasts I have listened too (from the OHL) this was by far the best duo I have heard.

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04-12-2006, 02:00 PM
  #42
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This whining about the Rogers guys is just the icing on the cake. The whole organization has truly lost it.

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04-12-2006, 05:05 PM
  #43
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At least now we can be anxious to see what comes out of the front office next... As a London fan... i wait with anticipation and utter fear to see what comes out after tonight's game... perhaps a new bus driver?

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04-12-2006, 05:24 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MomentsofSanity
At least now we can be anxious to see what comes out of the front office next... As a London fan... i wait with anticipation and utter fear to see what comes out after tonight's game... perhaps a new bus driver?
If they lose tonight...it'll be Waterboy's fault for not giving the finger enough to opposing fans!

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04-13-2006, 03:14 AM
  #45
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I love these Knight fans. It is so absolutely, endeniably clear what Bolland was trying to do, that to refute it is laughable.

4 games is the precedent. 4 games was the right call.

Knights fans want lighter sentences because it's the playoffs? Perhaps 1 minute penalties? 3 1/2 minutes for fighting? So an instigator could get 1, 3 1/2 and a 7min misconduct. That way he's not missing such important time.

And I'm really disappointed with David's comment. I have a ton of respect of David Bolland, but I lost a bit with these comments. I would hope that he was put up to this by the ever-so-classy Hunters.

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04-13-2006, 05:54 AM
  #46
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Bolland did not try to kick the guy, why would he do that? expeshally in the playoofs the guy aint a idiot he is one of the most respected players in the OHL. Sadly if there is one player on the Knights i see doing this is Schremp because of all his on ice things he has done like drinking from the other goalies water bottle. But with that aside the Ref should have never spun Bolland around, the ref was a idiot a rf should never do that to a player. I am not saying kicking a ref is all good but a ref should not be laying their hands a player like the guy did on Bolland. Bolland did the right thing and basically insult the league in his statement, hopefully the knights gt out of this round because this would be a bad way for Bolland to end his junior career. The knights finally played well in game 4, hopefully that means they will play much better not like in games 2 and 3.

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04-13-2006, 07:20 AM
  #47
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Yeah, great game by the Knights last night.

Just when you think there are chinks in the armor....

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04-13-2006, 08:15 AM
  #48
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Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
No.

Of course, you didn't watch the game and you can't see Bolland hammering over Ouzas, which started the scrum.

Nice try.
"hammering" over Ouzas?? You mean the guy with all the padding who was already lying on the ice a few feet out of his crease that he tripped over?

Nice try Laser Kick Gagne

PS: Hammering and laser kicks. Owen Sound folk can be so colourfully descriptive. You could almost get Gerry Hahn's job.

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04-13-2006, 08:40 AM
  #49
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Not the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyime
While I agree refs should be held accountable, and I believe in their own world they are, what happened in this case cannot be blamed on the ref, nor was the ref in the wrong at all. His job is to break up confrontations and he did just that. In fact, I think he did Bolland a favour (within the immediate timeframe of the incident). Going up against Angelidis is not the best situation for Bolland to be in.

The ref (linesman) cannot be blamed for what Bolland did and shouldn't be held accountable for anything in this instance.
The point is not that he receive blame for anything. But his actions were part of the incident. And the league is not going to say that the ref made mistakes.

Here's the way it works. If they review a call made by a ref they never do anything to alter it unless conclusive. With players it is not as stringent a standard.

Case in point in the NHL. Begin made a clean hit in open ice with his shoulder. He was given a match penalty for elbowing. After video review it was very clear that no elbow contact was made. The league withdrew the match penalty after the game.

It is implicit that the ref messed up the call, but the league never said that he did. It is their way of backing up their officials. The best Begin got out of the deal was missing that game he was ejected from. Players will always come out second best in these affairs.

As for doing Bolland a favour? Ask any guy who is in a situation like that and they would disagree. He is restrained and twisted around while Angelidis is free? Less than ideal. Besides look at the rest of the spin off effects (pardon the pun). Do you REALLY think that Bollands skate would be anywhere but on the ice if the linesman was not spinning him around?

If Bolland wanted to kick him he could have done it anytime. And if the contact made was in fact a kick, it was so weak that what would be the point?

For the final time Ouzas definitely kicked at a guy. There is no doubt. It was a regular season game. There was nobody holding him and turning him around or in anyway influencing his actions. 2 games for Bolland would have been the right call. Playoffs, outside influences, and doubt as to whether the act was deliberate. I think I am being logical in this. If the act was really deliberate it should be much longer than 4 games, which says Ouzas got off light with 4 regular season games.

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04-13-2006, 08:50 AM
  #50
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Okay

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinalWord
I love these Knight fans. It is so absolutely, endeniably clear what Bolland was trying to do, that to refute it is laughable.

4 games is the precedent. 4 games was the right call.

Knights fans want lighter sentences because it's the playoffs? Perhaps 1 minute penalties? 3 1/2 minutes for fighting? So an instigator could get 1, 3 1/2 and a 7min misconduct. That way he's not missing such important time.

And I'm really disappointed with David's comment. I have a ton of respect of David Bolland, but I lost a bit with these comments. I would hope that he was put up to this by the ever-so-classy Hunters.
Okay then, take us through the event and you tell us what he was trying to "undeniably" do. Hey ref would ya turn me around so I can do a spinning laser kick on Angelidis?

As for the comments on penalties: It has been done many times in the past where suspensions have not been as long as decreed regular season. I didn't invent the concept.

Finally, you say that you are disappointed in Bolland? He is the only guy who knows what he did or intended to do. He made a statement. It made much more sense than Laser Angelidis' take on the event (after watching replays 5 times LOL).

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