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Old
10-31-2003, 03:37 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
Your third positive would've never occured if Simon doesnt get thrown out. Lundmark wouldve rotted away on the 4th line the rest of the game and we might have lost. Which is exactly whats gonna happen on Saturday night when Simon gets put back with Messier.
Disagree. I think that Lundmark will stay with Mess and Simon. I think its Barnaby who is going to be moved down to the fourth line.

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10-31-2003, 03:44 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
I must admit I am pleasantly surprised by his effort and decent skills, but, just like McCarthy, he doesnt belong on anything more than a 4th line. Especially when a talented kid is working his ass off every shift and is earning more minutes. Plus Simon takes way too many penalties, which is a big problem. Regardless of his toughness and physical side, which I like, theres no excuse to playing Simon more than Lundmark on a nightly basis. In the end, what Lundmark brings to the table (offense and speed) will contribute more to the success of the team than what Simon brings (toughness).
Taking too many penalties? First of all, he's getting penalties called against that simply aren't there. There have been three calls this year that have been horrible calls: the phantom elbow against Florida, the ticky tack elbow against Anaheim (no need to make that call, this is hockey and the defenseman went back at him), and the non existance boarding call last night. Other than that, there really haven't been many bad penalties. And if he gets a penalty being nasty and mean, that's fine with me. I'd rather get a penalty for elbowing or roughing than for interference or holding the stick. He has also shown more than a willingness to stick up for teammates; something that somehow became below Sandy.

McCarthy didn't even want to be mean. He wanted to be a finesse forward. Simon thinks he can score goals too but he does it by using his size and driving to the net. Quite different.

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10-31-2003, 03:47 AM
  #53
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Nice win.

The major call on Simon was atrocious.

Bettman should have stayed with basketball. He obviously doesn't like hockey.

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10-31-2003, 04:07 AM
  #54
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My take

Some good, some bad. Got to remember to temper all enthusiasm. We've seen flashes before. However, for all the good, there is still more than enough bad. We'll start with the good first.

1. Dunny. I don't even think that we need to mention anything in detail here. Yes, he WILL have game that he annoys us by kicking those rebounds to opposing players. However, when he can control his kicking, then he can be a goalie whose back is broad enough for be able to carry us.
2. The PK. Yeah, we allowed one goal, but it was on a major (total BS major, BTW). Got to continue to give props to Sather and Renney for getting these guys to stop running around like chickend with their heads cut off.
3. Again I ask, who is the guy wearing #3 and what happened to the Tom Poti we've all come to know and loathe. If he keeps playing like this (one HUGE IF) lots of boos will become cheers.
4. Must be that time of the month as Malacough decided that it was time to step up and have a nice game.
5. Lundmark. Well, well, well....look what happens when he gets ice time and actaully skates with someone besides offensively inept players. There is actually no reason for either Rucinsky or Hlavac to keep playing more minutes than Jaime.
6. Matty and Simon. Again this duo brought hard, chippy play on every shift. Must admit, that SO FAR Simon is making Jackass look good. Much more noticable than Mcarthy was. And Matty just continues to play hard.
7. Holik. Holik played another pretty mean game. What more can one ask for? They guy played mean and shut down their top line AND won a good amount of faceoffs from Brindy.
Then there's the bad:
1. The PP. STILL no one in front of the net. Much as I give Sather and Renney credit for the PK, they have to take a shot here. How can these 2 things elude these guys? Go to the net and screen the goalie and quick shots on goal. What is the diffuculty here?
2. Bobo. Just as his sister had a good game, Krispy had ANOTHER poor one. At this point and time, I got to say that when Leetchie comes back, Bouchard should not be the first one on the list to take a seat.
3. Hlavac and Rucinsky. While Anson Carter tried (at least for 1 game) to leave the dubious trio behind, these 2 have done their darndest to make sure that they make no difference in any game. Is there really a reason to give these clowns more ice time than Lundmark? With Moore getting a callup, I can only pray that he shows more than these 2.
4. There are still signs of poor coaching. You just can't have less than 5 playes on the ice for no reason whatsoever. Nor can you line up with 5 when you are supposed to have 4. Sooner or latter, it's going to cost you.

When this homestand started, I said that they need to do no worse than 4-2. Well, they went 3-1-2. Same amount of points. From that prespective, can't get too upset. OTOH, can't loose both games this weekend. Need to come away with at least one win either Saturday or Sunday.

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10-31-2003, 04:39 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
All hail the amazing martin rucinsky..... where all the people who were yelling for his return a year ago and arguing with me? one unimpressive stint in ST. Louis and another thus far and NY sure makes it easy for a lot of people to run back into the woodworks.
I don't know that anyone was "yelling" for the return of Rosie. If anything, it was a cry for a competent LW'er rather than having Barnaby playing out of position on the top line. Nobody's first choice, but clearly an upgrade on ANYTHING we had at the time. I still support his signing this year as well as Hlavac. Sather addressed a need, a concept I agree with despite the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
McCarthy didn't even want to be mean. He wanted to be a finesse forward. Simon thinks he can score goals too but he does it by using his size and driving to the net. Quite different.
Sandy wanted to do exactly what Simon is doing. Basically, be a semi-skilled power forward that will throw dukes WHEN HE HAS TO. Had Sandy gotten the kind of minutes and linemates that Simon is getting, I think you'd see a pretty similar player.

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10-31-2003, 04:46 AM
  #56
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Slowly but surely it's coming together and they're learning how to win in todays NHL on a consistent basis.

They have shown that they are learning the patience game and although they haven't had the benifit from the occasional PP goal which are essential in these tight games, especially ones that give you a lead, they have hung in their and grinded in these low scoring affairs.

Lundy played a great game in that he took it upon himself to play a very, very involved game and the result was him getting a fluke goal in attempting to center it from behind the net and a secondary assist through sheer hard work along the boards as well as bringing a level of skating that the lineup desperately needs.Great job Jamie and keep looking to stay involved in your play.

And for all the BS Mess takes or has taken he has been great this year for us thus far.Great move to get his stick free for the goal off a beautiful feed from Matty but Mess is shwoing yet that he still can be a factor and a contributor to this team.

I can't wait till he gets the 2 more points to move past Gordie.To me that will be the personal achievement highlight of the season---how can it not be?With 2 of the next 3 at home I really, I mean really hope he gets it in one of those 2 while I'm in attendance to show my appreciation for the Captain.

Simon continues to play very well in his role and he's bringing the toughness we need from him.BS call but it won't deter him.Unfortunately this is the way it is in todays NHL--a hit too hard or deemed to be too vicious, even if legal is called and bigger body players are the ones that get shafted with all these BS calls.

Dunny looked fantastic again and Kovie and Nedved seem to be getting into their groove.Hopefully Hlavac can step it up to help the other 2 out which he hasn't come close to doing yet.

Holik is diplaying the meaness that we pay him an absurd amount of money to bring and his line looked really good with AC-Rosie.Carter appears to have more confidence on Holik's line and I think he asserts himself more there as he feels he's the man on the line offensively and the one counted on to get the offense going from that line.

Bouchard made some great plays to breakup some golden scoring chances at least twice, Poti was showing some discipline as Sam and JD pointed out in just getting pucks deep at the appropriate time---something he and the team didn't do enough the last few yrs and one of the "little things--attention to deal things" that are a big factor in winning in todays NHL where there is a very thin line between wins and losses most night.

Vlad made some good plays offensively but was again terrible in his own and and Kaspairitis still can't assert himself to the degree he has to for him to be a factor.Boris had some ups and downs.I can't wait for Leetch to get into the top 6.

I guess we'll see Jussi in nets in Montreal where hopefully we can really get the ball rolling.In Montreal at home for Col and Dallas all within a 3 games in 4 nights, 4 in 6 is a tall order but if they get into a groove they can really use this as a possible launching pad to good things.

I say Leetch comes back vs Col and Lindros vs Dallas.

One last note---not a bad homestand to open the yr.The one loss was a game we were clearly the better team outchancing them 25-11 as per JD.Not bad for a team trying to get acclamated to a totally new system and one where our best skater in Leetch missed all the games and Lindros missed the last 2.

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10-31-2003, 04:54 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Sandy wanted to do exactly what Simon is doing. Basically, be a semi-skilled power forward that will throw dukes WHEN HE HAS TO. Had Sandy gotten the kind of minutes and linemates that Simon is getting, I think you'd see a pretty similar player.
I disagree. Sandy was all for the fancy stick handling. He was not a nasty player. He would throw the obligatory body check if the play was near him. Simon is a mean SOB. He will not just hit someone he will plaster them. He keeps it simple and he is a lot stronger than Sandy is. Sandy used to stare at people and think that that was intimidating. Simon is a lot more aggressive and a lot more passionate.

Had Sandy played the Simon is, he would have gotten the minutes.

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10-31-2003, 05:11 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
I don't know that anyone was "yelling" for the return of Rosie. If anything, it was a cry for a competent LW'er rather than having Barnaby playing out of position on the top line. Nobody's first choice, but clearly an upgrade on ANYTHING we had at the time. I still support his signing this year as well as Hlavac. Sather addressed a need, a concept I agree with despite the results.
However, can we still consider either Hlavac or Rosie as an upgrade over ANY of Lundmark, Matty, or Simon? Seriously, would it kill us to see a line that consists of Matty/Simon-Lindros-Jaime? You may support the theory behind the signings of both Hlavac and Rucinsky, however their current play dictates that it is highly possible that they may not be able to do a better job than any of the players that I have mentioned.

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10-31-2003, 05:23 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
However, can we still consider either Hlavac or Rosie as an upgrade over ANY of Lundmark, Matty, or Simon?
Obviously, we can't, but back in August, it seemed like common sense to expect better results from the former than the latter. Of course, that's not to say that a guy like Barnaby should again assume Rucinsky's role. The failures of Rosie and Hlavac should pave the way for younger players, not the promotion of 3rd/4th liners to the top line.

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10-31-2003, 05:32 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Obviously, we can't, but back in August, it seemed like common sense to expect better results from the former than the latter. Of course, that's not to say that a guy like Barnaby should again assume Rucinsky's role. The failures of Rosie and Hlavac should pave the way for younger players, not the promotion of 3rd/4th liners to the top line.
I agree with MJ 100% on both the logic in the signing this summer as well as the fact that despite them not playing as we had hoped I still don't want to see guys like Simon and Barnaby getting top 2 line time.

As everybody always says about Mess being an asset if we limit his minutes and keep him in a role he can contribute it the same goes for guys like Matty and Simon.

Lundy can bump on or the other and it would likely be Hlavac as Eric likes skating with Rsoie and of the 2 Rosie has been slightly better.

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10-31-2003, 05:36 AM
  #61
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The fact is true now that was true then: this team did not need both of them. Either Rucinsky or Hlavac would have been a decent move (preferably Hlavac because of his history here and his age).

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10-31-2003, 05:42 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
The fact is true now that was true then: this team did not need both of them. Either Rucinsky or Hlavac would have been a decent move (preferably Hlavac because of his history here and his age).
Who would you have exepected to take one of their spots?

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10-31-2003, 05:48 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
The failures of Rosie and Hlavac should pave the way for younger players, not the promotion of 3rd/4th liners to the top line.
That's not at all what I am saying. I am simply stating that both Rucinsky and Hlavac HAVE NOT outplayed either Simon and Barnaby. I think that the latter 2 should stay in the roles that they currently have. I am just stating that playing either Barnaby or Simon with Lindros and Holik respectively every now and then, should send an appropriate message to both Rucinksy and Hlavac. Otherwise, what do we have? Rosie and Hlavac skating aimlessly on the top lines with no fear of beching for their poor play. And IF it is the younger kids that get promoted to take the place of those 2, then the question becomes are Rucinsky and Hlavac going to take the place of Simon and Barnaby or would Jackass rightfully not even dress them?

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10-31-2003, 05:54 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Who would you have exepected to take one of their spots?


Jamie Lundmark. Another youngster. Barnaby had chemistry with Lindros.

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10-31-2003, 06:05 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Jamie Lundmark. Another youngster. Barnaby had chemistry with Lindros.
I think everyone including Sather had Lundmark pinned for Holik's right since July, especially with Bure gone.

Yes, we'd all love to see a youngster, but what happens if they all sucked in camp? The team enters the season dangerously unprepared.....again.

Lindros had the worst season of his career with Barnaby by his side. Matty had a breakout season in a role not befitting his abilites, but that's not why he's here.

I view Jan and Rosie as insurance policies. I have no problem with either one of them being benched, waived, demoted or traded. I think your biggest concern is whether that's really going to happen, a legitament concern, but it was a strategy I could get my head around for once.

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10-31-2003, 06:33 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Lindros had the worst season of his career with Barnaby by his side. Matty had a breakout season in a role not befitting his abilites, but that's not why he's here.
Come on, that had nothing to do with Barnaby. Lindros had his year because he didn't play like Eric Lindros. He could have had a bad year with anybody flanking him. Barnaby had a breakout year playing next to a more or less ineffective Lindros. Which is more telling?

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10-31-2003, 06:37 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
I have no problem with either one of them being benched, waived, demoted or traded. I think your biggest concern is whether that's really going to happen, a legitament concern,
Therein lies my problem, MJ. I think that we are all in agreement that both Rosie and Hlavac have not played well. Wo the question becomes, what to do? We all say that we want younger players promoted to take their place, however, then the question is what becomes of the both of them? I do not think that any of us are serioulsy entertainging thought of the 2 of them NOT being in the everyday lineup. So if 2 yutes are promoted to play in the place of both Rucinsky and Hlavac, that means that either the both of them are not dressed or they are dressed and any of Lundmark, Matty, Simon, or Lacoutre are not in the lineup.
That's why I do not think that the answer is going to be in promoting 2 from Hartford. Granted, that is what SHOULD happen, but I cannot see Jackass simply not dressing the both of them. And if the 2 of them are going to continue to dress, then I do not think that promoting either Lundmark (permanently) or Simon or Matty (temporarily, be it for a period or 2 or an entire game) to take their place is such a bad idea. Some kind of a message has got to be sent to both Rosie and Hlavac.

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10-31-2003, 06:45 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Come on, that had nothing to do with Barnaby. Lindros had his year because he didn't play like Eric Lindros. He could have had a bad year with anybody flanking him. Barnaby had a breakout year playing next to a more or less ineffective Lindros. Which is more telling?
Come on? Are you telling me that the best chance of a rebound season for Eric is to put a 4th liner out of position on his left and hope that he can match or exceed his career year? I'm not pointing the finger at Matt, I'm just employing a little common sense in thinking that a player who can maximize Eric's abilities stands a better chance of creating a more productive line.

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10-31-2003, 06:56 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Come on? Are you telling me that the best chance of a rebound season for Eric is to put a 4th liner out of position on his left and hope that he can match or exceed his career year? I'm not pointing the finger at Matt, I'm just employing a little common sense in thinking that a player who can maximize Eric's abilities stands a better chance of creating a more productive line.

No, what I'm saying is Eric's best chance for a bounce back season would be to play like Eric. To hell with who his linemates are. Hell Nedved played with an uneffective Devo and a Petrovicky who had no business being on the second line and he was productive.

And I'm saying that there was some evident chemistry between Barnaby and Lindros when there wasn't chemistry between Lindros and Kovalev who is not a fourth liner.

I maintain that this team could not go into the season with Barnaby and Petro as its top two LWers. Signing either Rucinsky or Hlavac is an upgrade over.

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10-31-2003, 06:58 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I do not think that any of us are serioulsy entertainging thought of the 2 of them NOT being in the everyday lineup.
Perhaps not simultaneuously, but Sather clearly doesn't have an allegiance to either player, so I'd have to think either one of them could end up going to way of Purinton if a better option comes along.

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10-31-2003, 07:00 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I maintain that this team could not go into the season with Barnaby and Petro as its top two LWers. Signing either Rucinsky or Hlavac is an upgrade over.
Uhhhhh............isn't that what I was saying?

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10-31-2003, 07:07 AM
  #72
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Tb..on Poti...

remember last year's first 1/5...Poti was physical, good defensively and put up points too. Perhaps the system is aiding him a bit, and if so, that'll be great, but we've seen this play before, which faded. There is a bit of an edge I admit..almost as if he wants to get into a fight.

And I agree on Lundmark, everybody, but the statement of 'look what happens when you give him...' is absurb. That almost suggests that he'll score in each game.

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10-31-2003, 07:42 AM
  #73
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Uhhhhh............isn't that what I was saying?

One of them. Not both. Is Rucinsky an upgrade over Barnaby? Evidently not.

But my main point still remains. If Eric is not going play like Eric and be the perimeter player that we know and hate, it really doesn't matter who is line mates are. They're not going to make him better. Is Rucinsky or Barnaby going to get Eric to play like the Eric we need? Hell no.

When Eric was at his best, with York and Fleury, he was playing big down low and creating space for his smaller wingers. But he did it not his linemates. Was York great at setting him up? Sure, but he had to be a physical force to be in position. So, again, it was up to Eric to play like Eric, not Eric Light.

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10-31-2003, 07:45 AM
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Bottom line on both Jan and Rosie is that as MJ said they are ONE yr insurance policies that make a combined 2.7 million and made tremendous sense in that Jan had 2 yrs worth of proven chemistry with Nedved who hasn't had that going with any linemates since and Eric stated that he loved playing with Rosie and having him playing the way he does on his line.

The signings were great and made sense in filling 2 gaping holes with cheap one yr commitments with familair faces.

Has it worked out-no, but the season is still very young and we now have something called DEPTH on our team and that's never a bad thing.

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10-31-2003, 08:22 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Bottom line on both Jan and Rosie is that as MJ said they are ONE yr insurance policies that make a combined 2.7 million and made tremendous sense in that Jan had 2 yrs worth of proven chemistry with Nedved who hasn't had that going with any linemates since and Eric stated that he loved playing with Rosie and having him playing the way he does on his line.

The signings were great and made sense in filling 2 gaping holes with cheap one yr commitments with familair faces.

Has it worked out-no, but the season is still very young and we now have something called DEPTH on our team and that's never a bad thing.
I rejoiced when Hlavac was traded the first time. Then, I was despondent when he returned. I will again rejoice when he is waived or traded once and for all, probably by January. Rosie will not be far behind.

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