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Old
04-14-2006, 05:27 PM
  #1
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need your opinion on this

A buddy of mine who is a huge Flames fan figures Iginla earned his
7 mil salary this year . I believe he had a disappointing season , its not all about stats but he is paid to be among the top 5 in the game ,and this season he didn`t deliver the goods. He may not have a ton of talent around him , but 7 mil for his year is nuts. He may have heart, etc,, but Meehan had the flames by the nuts coming off a finals appearance, and therfore he got overpaid in my opinion. There is no way the flames can keep him long term when Dion will get a monster deal , to go with the Kipper( the teams MVP IN MY OPINION) . He tried to say that KOVLAEV is by way over paid compared to Iggs , so I walked away. It would like to have Iggs on my team , but not at 7 mil for what he delivers. 7 mil should be a top end talent, who produces big numbers or is Norris or Vezina candidate. What made me laugh is he suggested Iggs
could of carried San Jose the same way Thornton did when he got dealt , when they were 15 points out. There is no way Cheechoo scores 50 with IGGS. Joe carried them , that is what a 7 mil player does, Iggs is a piece of a puzzle .

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04-14-2006, 05:39 PM
  #2
Mike8
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I don't think citing Thornton as being an example of what a $7mil player does supports your point. Thornton's better accomplished than Iginla in the regular season, but Iginla's proven more than Thornton in the post-season--when it counts.

That said, I do agree that Iginla has not been a $7m player this year. And I agree that Kiprusoff has been Calgary's MVP, and that, generally speaking, unless your offense is good and revolves around one player, a team should not invest so much cash around a single player.

It's difficult to even think of any forwards worth $7m. Because that amount of salary skews the salary structure so much.

Forsberg is one of my favourites, but he's injured so frequently that investing $7m into him would hurt.

Jagr's too unreliable. Some years he's phenominal and can carry a team on his back, other years he's just not a dominating presence.

Thornton's worth the $7m if he can show what he can do in the playoffs. I think he can be good in the playoffs; Boston was simply the wrong environment. Still, he needs to prove his worth before getting the big-paycheque.

The only two forwards other than those three that I can see giving $7m+ to are Ovechkin and Crosby, potentially.


Anyhow, Iginla's good. I think he's $5.5 - 6m range good. And that's just because I think goaltenders and defensemen are priced a bit higher than forwards, and deservedly so. You can win with a mediocre forward group, but you're not going anywhere without an elite defense and/or goaltending.

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Old
04-14-2006, 05:43 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I don't think citing Thornton as being an example of what a $7mil player does supports your point. Thornton's better accomplished than Iginla in the regular season, but Iginla's proven more than Thornton in the post-season--when it counts.

That said, I do agree that Iginla has not been a $7m player this year. And I agree that Kiprusoff has been Calgary's MVP, and that, generally speaking, unless your offense is good and revolves around one player, a team should not invest so much cash around a single player.

It's difficult to even think of any forwards worth $7m. Because that amount of salary skews the salary structure so much.

Thanks , my figure was closer to 5 as well.

Forsberg is one of my favourites, but he's injured so frequently that investing $7m into him would hurt.

Jagr's too unreliable. Some years he's phenominal and can carry a team on his back, other years he's just not a dominating presence.

Thornton's worth the $7m if he can show what he can do in the playoffs. I think he can be good in the playoffs; Boston was simply the wrong environment. Still, he needs to prove his worth before getting the big-paycheque.

The only two forwards other than those three that I can see giving $7m+ to are Ovechkin and Crosby, potentially.


Anyhow, Iginla's good. I think he's $5.5 - 6m range good. And that's just because I think goaltenders and defensemen are priced a bit higher than forwards, and deservedly so. You can win with a mediocre forward group, but you're not going anywhere without an elite defense and/or goaltending.

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Old
04-14-2006, 05:47 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I don't think citing Thornton as being an example of what a $7mil player does supports your point. Thornton's better accomplished than Iginla in the regular season, but Iginla's proven more than Thornton in the post-season--when it counts.

That said, I do agree that Iginla has not been a $7m player this year. And I agree that Kiprusoff has been Calgary's MVP, and that, generally speaking, unless your offense is good and revolves around one player, a team should not invest so much cash around a single player.

It's difficult to even think of any forwards worth $7m. Because that amount of salary skews the salary structure so much.


Forsberg is one of my favourites, but he's injured so frequently that investing $7m into him would hurt.

Jagr's too unreliable. Some years he's phenominal and can carry a team on his back, other years he's just not a dominating presence.

Thornton's worth the $7m if he can show what he can do in the playoffs. I think he can be good in the playoffs; Boston was simply the wrong environment. Still, he needs to prove his worth before getting the big-paycheque.

The only two forwards other than those three that I can see giving $7m+ to are Ovechkin and Crosby, potentially.


Anyhow, Iginla's good. I think he's $5.5 - 6m range good. And that's just because I think goaltenders and defensemen are priced a bit higher than forwards, and deservedly so. You can win with a mediocre forward group, but you're not going anywhere without an elite defense and/or goaltending.

Thanks , my figure was closer to 5 as well. Ovechkin is in his own world, if he won league MVP it wouldn`t be a big surprise , he scored 25% of this teams goals, and his goals are goals, not tip ins or close in shots, He might be the best in the game right now.

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04-14-2006, 05:51 PM
  #5
Quagmier
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Iginla was the best player on a division winning team...

he did his job imo

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Old
04-14-2006, 06:32 PM
  #6
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It's not just about numbers. Calgary is not an offensive team, yet they expect numbers from Iginla. He also provides top notch leadership and grit and lights the fire under that team when it counts.

I would much rather have Iginla than Jagr or Thornton. The whole team follows those guys.

Put Iginla in Jagr's position with all those playmakers on the PP and he would put up similar numbers imo.

If you want to win a Cup, Iginla is the guy to pay, not Thornton.

I know it might be boring watching Calgary play a defensive style every game, but putting Kovalev in the same sentence as Iginla is CRAZY TALK my man. I'll make that trade every day of the year.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 04-14-2006 at 06:43 PM.
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Old
04-14-2006, 07:04 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmier
Iginla was the best player on a division winning team...

he did his job imo
not really, kipper was far and away the best player for the flames. without him, the flames would be with the blues and hawks. 7 million dollars, and he's not even top 50 in point scoring, not top 15 in goals scored. It's a travesty that kipper is making half of what iginla is making...it really is.

as for the kovalev vs. iginla comparison? iginla brings a lot of things to the table that can't be measured with stats (like grit and passion), however kovalev makes 2.5 million less than iggy, and he has one less point than him in 13 less games played. in terms of bang for the puck, who would you rather have (it should be noted that both come up big in the playoffs)...if you keep in mind that the 2.5 million dollars can be utilized to attain another body for the hockey team.

But like someone said earlier, i'd rather have iginla over thornton. as for iginla versus jagr? jagr by a long shot.

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Old
04-14-2006, 07:09 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wholeshow
not really, kipper was far and away the best player for the flames. without him, the flames would be with the blues and hawks. 7 million dollars, and he's not even top 50 in point scoring, not top 15 in goals scored. It's a travesty that kipper is making half of what iginla is making...it really is.

as for the kovalev vs. iginla comparison? iginla brings a lot of things to the table that can't be measured with stats (like grit and passion), however kovalev makes 2.5 million less than iggy, and he has one less point than him in 13 less games played. in terms of bang for the puck, who would you rather have (it should be noted that both come up big in the playoffs)...if you keep in mind that the 2.5 million dollars can be utilized to attain another body for the hockey team.

But like someone said earlier, i'd rather have iginla over thornton. as for iginla versus jagr? jagr by a long shot.
You'd never catch Iginla quitting on a play like Kovalev did in the 2004 playoffs. Again, points aren't everything. Montreal is not half the team Calgary is. Calgary plays a disciplined defensive system. We're lucky if our guys decide to show up for the first period.

Kipper definitely deserves more money though. He'll get it when it's his time.

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Old
04-14-2006, 07:12 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman
Thanks , my figure was closer to 5 as well. Ovechkin is in his own world, if he won league MVP it wouldn`t be a big surprise , he scored 25% of this teams goals, and his goals are goals, not tip ins or close in shots, He might be the best in the game right now.
He wont even win the Calder let alone the Hart...but thanks for the laugh though

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04-14-2006, 07:22 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves
You'd never catch Iginla quitting on a play like Kovalev did in the 2004 playoffs. Again, points aren't everything. Montreal is not half the team Calgary is. Calgary plays a disciplined defensive system. We're lucky if our guys decide to show up for the first period.

Kipper definitely deserves more money though. He'll get it when it's his time.
you'd also never see iginla turn a play where he has no chance to score into a goal like kovalev (iggy doesn't have AK's vision). iginla doesn't open up the ice for his teammates like kovalev does either. Sure kovalev can be soft and careless at times, but that's what you get with kovalev. iginla has the grit and toughness edge, but kovalev has the edge in sheer skill and talent.

as for the habs not being half the team calgary is? wth are you smoking? have you seen a flames hockey game? it's dump and chase...force a turnover...interfere with the goaltender...score goal...clog the neutral zone...if opposition breaks through the trap rely on kipper to make the save. If the habs played like that, it would be damn hard to cheer for them. plus i look at the standings and i see the flames 9 points ahead in the standings, do you think 9 point difference would be much smaller if we played kipper (or even Huet) instead of theo during the first half of the season?

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04-14-2006, 07:55 PM
  #11
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I think Iginla on the inside has a lot of the same makeup as Koivu. He has better overall ability and strength but gets limited by not playing on a high flying line. He creates his own chances with defenses collapsing on him. I can't think of anything negative to say about the guy.

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04-14-2006, 08:09 PM
  #12
tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wholeshow
you'd also never see iginla turn a play where he has no chance to score into a goal like kovalev (iggy doesn't have AK's vision). iginla doesn't open up the ice for his teammates like kovalev does either. Sure kovalev can be soft and careless at times, but that's what you get with kovalev. iginla has the grit and toughness edge, but kovalev has the edge in sheer skill and talent.

as for the habs not being half the team calgary is? wth are you smoking? have you seen a flames hockey game? it's dump and chase...force a turnover...interfere with the goaltender...score goal...clog the neutral zone...if opposition breaks through the trap rely on kipper to make the save. If the habs played like that, it would be damn hard to cheer for them. plus i look at the standings and i see the flames 9 points ahead in the standings, do you think 9 point difference would be much smaller if we played kipper (or even Huet) instead of theo during the first half of the season?
Kovalev doesn't have vision. He's always forcing passes. He has great hands, that's it. No head and he only plays when he feels like it. Iginla's shot has better accuracy, he's tougher, grittier, better defensively, a better leader, a born clutch player. No contest.

Montreal is going to get smoked in the first round. You're damned right we're not half the team Calgary is. Calgary might play a boring style, but it's effective. And look at that defense. Our defense is AHL level compared to theirs. And Kiprusoff is a proven playoff goalie on top of it, we have two question marks.

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Old
04-14-2006, 09:58 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan
He wont even win the Calder let alone the Hart...but thanks for the laugh though
for sure ! why whould a 50+ goals 100+ points rookie player in the worst team of the NHL could be considered to win the calder or the Hart ?

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04-14-2006, 10:06 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Anyhow, Iginla's good. I think he's $5.5 - 6m range good. And that's just because I think goaltenders and defensemen are priced a bit higher than forwards, and deservedly so. You can win with a mediocre forward group, but you're not going anywhere without an elite defense and/or goaltending.
Mike8 , i am just curious to know how you will give to Koivu , if 5,5 - 6 M$ is the range of Iginla ( it is not an attack on Koivu , i just want to know where you put him versus Iginla )

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04-15-2006, 12:07 AM
  #15
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
Mike8 , i am just curious to know how you will give to Koivu , if 5,5 - 6 M$ is the range of Iginla ( it is not an attack on Koivu , i just want to know where you put him versus Iginla )
Personally, I had Koivu slated at being worth around $3.7 million.

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04-15-2006, 10:07 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Personally, I had Koivu slated at being worth around $3.7 million.
i agree with you for Saku and slate Iginla at 6-6.5 m$...

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04-15-2006, 11:37 AM
  #17
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I think wether Iginla is worth the money he got paid this year arguement has to wait until the playoffs are over to make a verdict. I don't think Calgary pays Iginla strictly to produce stats. I think they pay him to help the team make the playoffs and once there make some real noise. That might still happen, so Iginla might still prove he is worth his price tag.

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Old
04-15-2006, 11:46 AM
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I agree with Geeman. Sure he's the kind of player who plays physically and plays well offensively, but when you pay a guy 7 millions, you expect him to have an incredible season, which he didn't. You'd expect him to get a lot of goals and points, which he didn't enough. Yes, he's overpaid. BUT, he deserves a big salary. Not 7, but a big salary because of the way he leads the team and has a lot of energy.

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04-15-2006, 12:38 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan
He wont even win the Calder
Actually he will, but thanks for coming out.

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Old
04-15-2006, 12:57 PM
  #20
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I remember the Habs vs Flames in Calgary earlier this season and Iginla was all over the place . He tied the game 1-1 and scored the game winning goal .

He spent like 3mins on the ice in the last 5mins when the score was 3-2 . The Flames won because of Iginla .

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