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Old
10-30-2003, 08:39 PM
  #26
FacelessButcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
What???

Are you joking? Had he stacked the pads, 2 things would have happened... 1 the puck goes under his body (because that is where the tip was headed) and into the net, thereby incurring the same wrath from you, or 2 he makes the initial save, and is completely out of position and the rebound gets put in, once again, incurring your wrath...

Sorry, a 2 pad stack is the absolute last thing you do in that situation.
All these circumstances depend very much on positioning(closeness to the tip,angle, and speed with millions of possible probabilties but I did not feel his actions incurred the highest probabilty of stopping it) I was pointing out Salo could of played the obvious tip(his body language and positioning was very indicative IMO). He is not coming up with the big saves to seperate himself into the category of one of the better goalies in the league, I admire your loyalty but Tommy has been o.k. and not great for too long for my personal taste.

P.S. tips are hard to stop but just because it is one we should not give him an automatic oh that's o.k. Tommy, he should be stopping those at a higher percentage than he has of late.

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10-30-2003, 08:40 PM
  #27
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The PK is almost the worst in the leaque because your best Penalty Killer, is your Goalie. It hurts me to say this but Tommy's Done! He's having a hard time picking up the puck, rebounds are horrible and he's the biggest Momentum breaker on the team. Can someone tell me the last time Salo stole a game for us? A goalie has to do that every once in a while.

Game 6 vs. Dallas, last year was classic Salo. Two horrible goals - he absolutely gave the team no chance to win, and that's carried over to this year.

Lets get Hurme, and hopefully someone will pick up Salo and his 4 mill up off waivers. If no one picks him up (because as funny as it sounds the demand for 4 million dollar goalies that can't stop pucks is not that high right now) then we send him to the Roadrunners (ala Irbe).

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10-30-2003, 08:42 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
All these circumstances depend very much on positioning(closeness to the tip,angle, and speed with millions of possible probabilties but I did not feel his actions incurred the highest probabilty of stopping it) I was pointing out Salo could of played the obvious tip(his body language and positioning was very indicative IMO). He is not coming up with the big saves to seperate himself into the category of one of the better goalies in the league, I admire your loyalty but Tommy has been o.k. and not great for too long for my personal taste.

P.S. tips are hard to stop but just because it is one we should not give him an automatic oh that's o.k. Tommy, he should be stopping those at a higher percentage than he has of late.
There were two plays tommy needed to stop, the point shot and the tip...

What if Nash doesn't tip it? And Salo is sprawling playing the "obvious tip" and the puck goes in the net, Salo gets chastized for guessing on the play... this is ridiculous.

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10-30-2003, 08:44 PM
  #29
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Salo played alright today. He made the saves he was supposed make. He wasn't great though. He still allowed three goals, some of which would have been stopped by other goalies in this league. Once again, with under 10 minutes left in the game, Tommy let in a goal to blow the Oilers lead. Fortunately, they won in overtime.

In my opinion, almost any goalie in the NHL could have put up the performance that Salo displayed tonight. It was alright, decent, average. Nothing more.

When is the last time Tommy has stolen a game for the Oilers? I can't recall a game in recent memory where he has done that. Be it this year or even most of last year.

Shouldn't your #1 goalie and highest paid player singlehandly win some games for your team?

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10-30-2003, 08:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN
The PK is almost the worst in the leaque because your best Penalty Killer, is your Goalie. It hurts me to say this but Tommy's Done! He's having a hard time picking up the puck, rebounds are horrible and he's the biggest Momentum breaker on the team. Can someone tell me the last time Salo stole a game for us? A goalie has to do that every once in a while.

Game 6 vs. Dallas, last year was classic Salo. Two horrible goals - he absolutely gave the team no chance to win, and that's carried over to this year.

Lets get Hurme, and hopefully someone will pick up Salo and his 4 mill up off waivers. If no one picks him up (because as funny as it sounds the demand for 4 million dollar goalies that can't stop pucks is not that high right now) then we send him to the Roadrunners (ala Irbe).
The PK is the worst in the league, because out of the last 4 power play goals against, the person who scored it was untouched and within 6 feet of the net when they scored.

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10-30-2003, 08:47 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
All these circumstances depend very much on positioning(closeness to the tip,angle, and speed with millions of possible probabilties but I did not feel his actions incurred the highest probabilty of stopping it) I was pointing out Salo could of played the obvious tip(his body language and positioning was very indicative IMO). He is not coming up with the big saves to seperate himself into the category of one of the better goalies in the league, I admire your loyalty but Tommy has been o.k. and not great for too long for my personal taste.

P.S. tips are hard to stop but just because it is one we should not give him an automatic oh that's o.k. Tommy, he should be stopping those at a higher percentage than he has of late.
Oh my good god!
Play the tip?
Did I mention, OH MY GOOD GOD!!??

That was a very good shot/pass to Nash which forces a goalie to square up and cover THAT angle - and because Nash made a tip on a hard pass (slower shot) he should have guessed and stopped that?!?!

It has got to a point where a goal that isn't in the least his fault has him put under a microscope for no reason other then people are looking to hang somebody and who is easier then the goalie?

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10-30-2003, 08:47 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
There were two plays tommy needed to stop, the point shot and the tip...

What if Nash doesn't tip it? And Salo is sprawling playing the "obvious tip" and the puck goes in the net, Salo gets chastized for guessing on the play... this is ridiculous.
Yep no matter what he does on that play he would get criticized by people that have obviously never played goal.

He had no chance on that goal.

Play the tip? goaltenders are taught to play the shot people! Give Nash some credit for a great goal!

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10-30-2003, 08:50 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
There were two plays tommy needed to stop, the point shot and the tip...

What if Nash doesn't tip it? And Salo is sprawling playing the "obvious tip" and the puck goes in the net, Salo gets chastized for guessing on the play... this is ridiculous.
if u say so....it seems to me like the other teams are reading him perfectly and making use of all his tendancies I think the book is out on him.He has always been better than average because he could read a play better than most anyone he never had super-stellar reflexes or a fast glove he just knew where to be and when to be there and made sure there were no holes for them to shoot at,but everyone is finding them now. Its just my opinion could u turn down the emotion a tad?

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10-30-2003, 08:50 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Yep no matter what he does on that play he would get criticized by people that have obviously never played goal.
Salo played alright today. He made the saves he was supposed make. He wasn't great though. He still allowed three goals, some of which would have been stopped by other goalies in this league. Once again, with under 10 minutes left in the game, Tommy let in a goal to blow the Oilers lead. (It was a nice goal by Nash, but I'd bet a significant portion of the goalies in the league would have stopped that shot)Fortunately, they won in overtime.

In my opinion, almost any goalie in the NHL could have put up the performance that Salo displayed tonight. It was alright, decent, average. Nothing more.

When is the last time Tommy has stolen a game for the Oilers? I can't recall a game in recent memory where he has done that. Be it this year or even most of last year.

Shouldn't your #1 goalie and highest paid player singlehandly win some games for your team?

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10-30-2003, 08:52 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Yep no matter what he does on that play he would get criticized by people that have obviously never played goal.

He had no chance on that goal.

Play the tip, goaltenders are taught to play the shot people! Give Nash some credit for a great goal!
Very rarely does a goaltender make a save on a tip by doing nothing other than being in the butterfly. You very rarely see a goaltender move on a tip, especially when it is within a foot of him when it gets tipped.

Some goalies may make that particular save, but not if it is tipped at a slighty different angle or speed, where Tommy might have had something in the right position to stop it.

Salo played well enough for the Oilers to get the win tonight... so all this crap about not stealing a game since whenever is absolute crap, because they won tonight... save the not stealing games for when they lose.

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10-30-2003, 08:52 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Salo played alright today. He made the saves he was supposed make. He wasn't great though. He still allowed three goals, some of which would have been stopped by other goalies in this league. Once again, with under 10 minutes left in the game, Tommy let in a goal to blow the Oilers lead. (It was a nice goal by Nash, but I'd bet a significant portion of the goalies in the league would have stopped that shot)Fortunately, they won in overtime.

In my opinion, almost any goalie in the NHL could have put up the performance that Salo displayed tonight. It was alright, decent, average. Nothing more.

When is the last time Tommy has stolen a game for the Oilers? I can't recall a game in recent memory where he has done that. Be it this year or even most of last year.

Shouldn't your #1 goalie and highest paid player singlehandly win some games for your team?
Thats exactly what I am saying thanks for laying out so eliquently.

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10-30-2003, 08:54 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Salo played alright today. He made the saves he was supposed make. He wasn't great though. He still allowed three goals, some of which would have been stopped by other goalies in this league. Once again, with under 10 minutes left in the game, Tommy let in a goal to blow the Oilers lead. (It was a nice goal by Nash, but I'd bet a significant portion of the goalies in the league would have stopped that shot)Fortunately, they won in overtime.

In my opinion, almost any goalie in the NHL could have put up the performance that Salo displayed tonight. It was alright, decent, average. Nothing more.
That is the point I was trying to make, and I think it is shared by spazz44 and dawgbone. Nobody is saying he was perfect, or even great, just that he wasn't the terrible goalie Fists of Fuhry was making him out to be.

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10-30-2003, 08:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Salo played alright today. He made the saves he was supposed make. He wasn't great though. He still allowed three goals, some of which would have been stopped by other goalies in this league. Once again, with under 10 minutes left in the game, Tommy let in a goal to blow the Oilers lead. (It was a nice goal by Nash, but I'd bet a significant portion of the goalies in the league would have stopped that shot)Fortunately, they won in overtime.

In my opinion, almost any goalie in the NHL could have put up the performance that Salo displayed tonight. It was alright, decent, average. Nothing more.

When is the last time Tommy has stolen a game for the Oilers? I can't recall a game in recent memory where he has done that. Be it this year or even most of last year.

Shouldn't your #1 goalie and highest paid player singlehandly win some games for your team?
Yes but sometimes goals go in that a goalie has no chance on. This is the essence of hockey.

There were no bad goals this evening. On the first one it was a bang, bang play. Nash beat Smith to the puck, Smith should have taken Nash's stick but again the play happened so quickly that it really wasn't anyones fault. Good play by Nash.

Second goal, how many saves is Tommy expected to make? Three, four. The Oilers were too busy playing goal and didn't bother taking anybody out and managed to completely block Salo out of the play.

Third goal - Tipped, Salo has to take the shooter. Another great tip by Nash. No chance by Salo. How many goals does Nash have this year? Six, seven. Good hockey player who knows where the net is. Sometimes you have to give credit to a player. Nash played well and made two plays that Salo didn't have a prayer on.

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10-30-2003, 08:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Salo played well enough for the Oilers to get the win tonight... so all this crap about not stealing a game since whenever is absolute crap, because they won tonight... save the not stealing games for when they lose.
Its true complaint is best saved for a loss but I don't like giving up any needless points to any team in the western conference, if it was east I would just shrug it off OT or regulation makes no difference but u never know when that single point comes back to bite us in the a$$.

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10-30-2003, 08:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Salo played alright today. He made the saves he was supposed make. He wasn't great though. He still allowed three goals, some of which would have been stopped by other goalies in this league. Once again, with under 10 minutes left in the game, Tommy let in a goal to blow the Oilers lead. (It was a nice goal by Nash, but I'd bet a significant portion of the goalies in the league would have stopped that shot)Fortunately, they won in overtime.
Some which may have been stopped by other goaltenders in the legue... he also controlled some pretty hard shots that other goaltenders in the league may have given up big rebounds on, that may have lead to other goals...

This is utter B.S... you are guaranteeing for a fact that most other goaltenders in the league would have stopped that Nash tip? So then why is a goal similar to that a common occurance in the NHL? With a tip, you never know where it is going... sure, you can say maybe tommy should have is legs a little closer together, but when he had them a little closer against the flames, a tip just bounced a little bit past his pad and into the net...

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10-30-2003, 09:02 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Its true complaint is best saved for a loss but I don't like giving up any needless points to any team in the western conference, if it was east I would just shrug it off OT or regulation makes no difference but u never know when that single point comes back to bite us in the a$$.
So then where is your blame for Smith and York?

I mean Smith for some reason allowed Nash to walk right in alone untouched, and York blew 3 chances to clear the puck out of the zone on the same power play that Columbus scored on...

There are 2 primary reasons right there that the Oilers gave away needless points to a Western Conference team.

But you know what, the team made some mistakes, and that happens in hockey, just like goals.

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10-30-2003, 09:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
This is utter B.S... you are guaranteeing for a fact that most other goaltenders in the league would have stopped that Nash tip? So then why is a goal similar to that a common occurance in the NHL? With a tip, you never know where it is going... sure, you can say maybe tommy should have is legs a little closer together, but when he had them a little closer against the flames, a tip just bounced a little bit past his pad and into the net...
All i said is that some goalies in the NHL would have stopped that shot. What I'm trying to figure is what is your point? Are you trying to prove that Salo is a top 10 goalie in the NHL or something?

My point is that Salo is an average NHL goalie, nothing more, nothing less. I would put him in the bottom half of the league in terms of starting goalies. I question why Lowe does not try and find a goalie for the future because I am tired of having average goaltending. If the Oilers are going to contend, they need great goaltending. I don't think Tommy will ever be that type of goalie.

I don't think it's coincidence that since Tommy Salo has become the Oiler's #1, they have not advanced out of the first round of the playoffs.

What do the Oilers have to lose by trading for a guy like Noronen, Hurme, Gerber and so on?

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10-30-2003, 09:09 PM
  #43
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I thought he was alright...better than his numbers showed...
I just have a feeling though, that Salo's confidence is at an all time low. Somehow I don't sense that fight in him anymore.

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10-30-2003, 09:17 PM
  #44
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I would really like to give Gerber a chance can't remember the last time I watched him play anything less then a good game.

Dawgbone: I don't recall there being a thread for York or Smith commentary but I like Smith tonight thought he played above average York two fairly ugly give-aways/bad passes but did enough good stuff to make up for it. Aren't all teams most critical of their highest paid player? Tommy is not giving us enough bang for our buck we could buy Berard(not the best on d but good outlet passes to relieve pressure+pp duties) and Noronen for a combined salary less than Tommy's. Mistakes happen ye but just to frequently with Tommy considering his price.

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10-30-2003, 09:18 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
All i said is that some goalies in the NHL would have stopped that shot. What I'm trying to figure is what is your point? Are you trying to prove that Salo is a top 10 goalie in the NHL or something?

My point is that Salo is an average NHL goalie, nothing more, nothing less. I would put him in the bottom half of the league in terms of starting goalies. I question why Lowe does not try and find a goalie for the future because I am tired of having average goaltending. If the Oilers are going to contend, they need great goaltending. I don't think Tommy will ever be that type of goalie.

I don't think it's coincidence that since Tommy Salo has become the Oiler's #1, they have not advanced out of the first round of the playoffs.

What do the Oilers have to lose by trading for a guy like Noronen, Hurme, Gerber and so on?
You didn't say some goalies, you said a significant portion of goaltenders would stop that shot.

What's my point? Columbus didn't get a point in this game because of any fault of Salo, yet some people are bound and determined to say that they did (and your comments get grouped into that one as well).

As for what do the Oilers have to lose for trading for a guy like Noronen, Hurme or Gerber? Plenty. These goalies aren't being given away, and aside from Hurme, and to a limited extent Gerber (a whopping 3 games in a row) none of them have shown to be remotely close to an NHL starting goaltender. None of these goaltenders would have helped in the game against Calgary, or by preventing this game going into overtime tonight.

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10-30-2003, 09:20 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
I would really like to give Gerber a chance can't remember the last time I watched him play anything less then a good game.

Dawgbone: I don't recall there being a thread for York or Smith commentary but I like Smith tonight thought he played above average York two fairly ugly give-aways/bad passes but did enough good stuff to make up for it. Aren't all teams most critical of their highest paid player? Tommy is not giving us enough bang for our buck we could buy Berard(not the best on d but good outlet passes to relieve pressure+pp duties) and Noronen for a combined salary less than Tommy's. Mistakes happen ye but just to frequently with Tommy considering his price.
Yeah most teams are... but this is being needlessly critical of him. I mean this never happened to Weight 4 years ago after the Oilers would win a game.

I do not understand the purpose of this thread at all... and that is the problem.

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10-30-2003, 09:27 PM
  #47
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I try to ignore these posts because they are getting rediculous and out of hand, but I can't help it - some of the things said are out of left field.

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10-30-2003, 10:44 PM
  #48
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I am getting so sick of these "what is wrong with salo" posts. And then having someone go through a lengthy description of how salo actually didnt have a bad game, followed by a comment "still, I dont like him, he should have had a shutout,... lets trade him NOW for a young unproven goalie".

So many knowledgeable hockey people. . . . .

Its your opinion, and youre entitled to it. Just dont get defensive when you get destroyed in the rebuttal.

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10-30-2003, 11:44 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
I am getting so sick of these "what is wrong with salo" posts. And then having someone go through a lengthy description of how salo actually didnt have a bad game, followed by a comment "still, I dont like him, he should have had a shutout,... lets trade him NOW for a young unproven goalie".

So many knowledgeable hockey people. . . . .

Its your opinion, and youre entitled to it. Just dont get defensive when you get destroyed in the rebuttal.
Your entitled to your opinion. I dont see this destroyed in rebuttal comment. How was I destroyed. I said Salo is an average goalie at best and is definitely not in the top 10 in the league in terms of goalies.

I've also stated the Salo is not playing as well as a team's #1 goalie and highest paid player should play.

Where and how have those comments been destroyed?

1.Can you honestly say that you believe Tommy Salo is a top 10 goalie in this league?

2.Can you honestly say that Tommy Salo is playing as well as a #1 goalie and highest player should play?

3. Do you honestly believe the Oilers have a chance at contending for a Stanley Cup without elite goaltending?

I can handle arguments that Salo can improve or will improve from his play so far. But as of right now, he's not that good and last year he was not that good. No matter how you look at it.

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10-31-2003, 04:38 AM
  #50
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How about some numbers

I had a look at some of the numbers, courtesy of ESPN.

Tommy is 38th in the league in GAA ( 3.45 ) and 39th in the league is Save % ( .857 ). On a list with only 41 goalies that have played in this short 8-10 game span, it's not that much of a stretch to say that there are probably goalies that are available and can do better. Problem is, Tommy's contract ain't gonna get picked up by anyone.

I hate to bash individual players, and especially goalies. And, from the little I've seen, the team in front of Tommy can only take so much blame for this situation. In the end, Salo's gonna have to dig in a little deeper or this team will not make the playoffs with this kinda effort.

Yes we won last night, yes most of the goals against Tommy were 'good goals'. And, IMHO, Tommy's lost it. I don't see the fire in him.

My opinion folks.

Geoff.

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