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Tom Kopecky future???

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04-17-2006, 08:42 AM
  #1
Thundermare
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Tom Kopecky future???

The guy seems to heve finaly put it all in the AHL... but the problem he faces is the log Jam in Detroit as of Quality Winger. Even the fourth line spot seems to be taken out by MacLean

My question is do you see him somewhere in the mix or do you see him has trade bait?

And if so what could be the return value for him?


Last edited by Thundermare: 04-17-2006 at 08:50 AM.
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04-17-2006, 08:50 AM
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Personally I hope he gets a shot at the Wings' lineup next year. He looks like he can be a good 3rd or 4th line winger, banging around and potting 10-20 goals a year. I like the idea of a Kopecky-Filppula combination at some point, maybe paired with Williams. I think a line like that would have a lot of speed, a lot of spunk, and could put up some very good numbers.

If he can't crack the lineup next year he will either be dealt or waived, because he is out of AHL options and would have to clear waivers to be sent down.

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04-17-2006, 09:07 AM
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I think Kopecky will likely get a 2-way contract and a chance to make the Red Wings in training camp. If he doesn't stick he'll probably be dealt, or Holland could take a chance trying to sneak him through waivers. My opinion is he's got basically no chance of making the big show with Detroit.

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04-17-2006, 09:46 AM
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His numbers would indicate he could earn a spot if one opens up. That log jam is a real issue for him and several others. His advantages are his size and the fact that he's a natural winger, not a center that needs to convert.

Who are the Wings going to let go or trade to make room for Grigorenko, Hudler, Filppula and Kopecky? How many rookies to do you think the Wings will allow in their lineup at a time?

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04-17-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
His numbers would indicate he could earn a spot if one opens up. That log jam is a real issue for him and several others. His advantages are his size and the fact that he's a natural winger, not a center that needs to convert.

Who are the Wings going to let go or trade to make room for Grigorenko, Hudler, Filppula and Kopecky? How many rookies to do you think the Wings will allow in their lineup at a time?
That's why I think Hudler and Kopecky have no real chance at making the Wings. Kopecky has had major consistency issues, and Hudler doesn't play an NHL game - he's got the talent but he's a major slacker and is small. IMO, Grigorenko and Filppula will get the first two open spots on the roster... and it's not even certain there will be that many up for grabs next year.

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04-17-2006, 10:10 AM
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Kopecky has size that the Wings covet, and he seems to have turned the corner. All the other guys listed can be sent to GR for more seasoning. Those are the main reasons I think Kopecky will (should) be in Detroit next year. Mowers is out, and Cleary might not be back either. After that, it will depend on whether they can deal Maltby and/or Draper and if they sign any scoring wingers for the top 2 lines. Judging by their recent history, no more than 2 of the kids will make the team. I could see a forward lineup like this:

Shanny-Datsyuk-Grigorenko
Holmstrom-Zetterberg-Samuelsson
Williams-Lang-Filppula
Franzen-Draper-Kopecky
MacLean/Bootland

I would rotate Kopecky and Filppula into Sammy's spot to see if either of them fit, but this would be a decent lineup. I'm not sure the Wings would go for it, since it relies a lot of young guys. But if they spend all their money on Lilja and Chelios they may not have a choice but to go with the kids since they're so cheap.

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04-17-2006, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro

Shanny-Datsyuk-Grigorenko
Holmstrom-Zetterberg-Samuelsson
Williams-Lang-Filppula
Franzen-Draper-Kopecky
MacLean/Bootland
I love some of those lines. Three good scoring lines, Zetterberg back on Center where he belongs, and a grind line with some scoring upside. You think Kopecky good enough defensively to go against opponents best lines? I really don't see the Wings trading Maltby.

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04-17-2006, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
I love some of those lines. Three good scoring lines, Zetterberg back on Center where he belongs, and a grind line with some scoring upside. You think Kopecky good enough defensively to go against opponents best lines? I really don't see the Wings trading Maltby.
I guess I hope the Wings trade Maltby because he's been pretty much worthless all year and they'll need the cap space. They can ice an entire checking line with what they pay him.

I do think Kopecky is good enough defensively for that line - Franzen and Draper are both very solid defensively also, so even if he's not stellar defensively, that line is still fine on defense. And it would have some pop as well, which the current 4th line doesn't really have.

I suppose they could try and deal Lang, but unless they get a big winger that can score 25 goals in return, there's really no point.

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04-17-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartender
The guy seems to heve finaly put it all in the AHL... but the problem he faces is the log Jam in Detroit as of Quality Winger. Even the fourth line spot seems to be taken out by MacLean

My question is do you see him somewhere in the mix or do you see him has trade bait?

And if so what could be the return value for him?
I think he'll make the team and that MacLean isn't even on the board at this point. He's had a few games where he didn't hurt the team and people are getting overly-excited about him. And I still think Hudler is a darkhorse to make the team next year.

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04-19-2006, 04:27 PM
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Well

MacLean had great stats at the AHL level and produced at the NHL level fior teh few game she was in... sio I think he has a shot next year too

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04-19-2006, 06:58 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
That's why I think Hudler and Kopecky have no real chance at making the Wings. Kopecky has had major consistency issues, and Hudler doesn't play an NHL game - he's got the talent but he's a major slacker and is small. IMO, Grigorenko and Filppula will get the first two open spots on the roster... and it's not even certain there will be that many up for grabs next year.
I don't know about that.
I think that of all the AHL guys, Kopecky is most NHL ready.
Hudler is still boom or bust, IMO, and I don't think he's going to win the kind of scoring line job he needs to boom next year.
Filppula, IMO, could use another six months to a year in the AHL.
Grigorenko is a potential Red Wing next year. Then again, he might need seasoning. We really don't know.
So I think Bootland and Kopecky are the most likely choices because it really wouldn't either guy's development to have them on the big team playing 4th line minutes or even sitting in the press box trying to earn their way into the lineup

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04-19-2006, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
I don't know about that.
I think that of all the AHL guys, Kopecky is most NHL ready.
Hudler is still boom or bust, IMO, and I don't think he's going to win the kind of scoring line job he needs to boom next year.
Filppula, IMO, could use another six months to a year in the AHL.
Grigorenko is a potential Red Wing next year. Then again, he might need seasoning. We really don't know.
So I think Bootland and Kopecky are the most likely choices because it really wouldn't either guy's development to have them on the big team playing 4th line minutes or even sitting in the press box trying to earn their way into the lineup
Yep. Unless Jiri or Filppula have insane training camps next year I think they'd be best served with another year in the AHL (mostly because they can without disturbing anything and we don't have enough room on the big club just yet).

Cleary I want to keep around as he and Franzen work well together and are the new Draper and Maltby (if only we could open up a spot by moving one or both of them). Williams I'd move for a different piece, pick, prospect, etc... and give his roster spot to Grigorenko who has a much higher upside to be taking up a scoring line spot (IMO we'll get similar production out of him in his first NHL year, provided he plays with Datsyuk, but more goals hopefully).

So then retaining everyone else (all but Shanny are signed anyway I believe), one of Kopecky and Bootland would have Stevie's job and the other Mowers' press box/injury reserve role. Both ought to be effective 4th line guys and both also have exhibited enough offense so they could be plugged in like Mowers has and not completely embarass themselves.

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04-20-2006, 04:53 AM
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Draper isn't going anywhere and I can't see why anyone would want him to, despite his contract. I'd much rather see Lang moved, not Williams or Maltby.

Shanahan-Datsyuk-Grigorenko
Samuelsson-Zetterberg-Holmstrom
Williams-Draper-Kopecky
Maltby-Franzen-Cleary

At the lower end of the cap with this lineup they could re-sign Legace and get a solid defenseman. If Lebda or someone else from within the system is going to get that last defensive spot hopefully a speedy winger like Samsonov will be in order.

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04-20-2006, 06:09 AM
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I think MacLean would be a good choice to take Mowers' spot as the 13th forward. He would provide more offense and size when he comes in, and like Mowers' he'd probably end up playing 40 or 50 games anyway, but he would adapt better to sitting for a couple of weeks than someone like Hudler.

And I don't think both Maltby and Cleary will be back. They will need one of those spots for a young guy or a guy like Samsonov if they can sign him. I'm hoping they can get rid of Maltby and try to sign Cleary for around what he's making this year. That would give them some nice space to get a defenseman or a guy to put the puck in the net.

The goal for the Wings this summer will be to keep their depth but add another threat or two on both sides of the puck. It will be hard to do, but some of the younger guys should be able to help, specifically Grigorenko. I wish we knew how to project him for next season - is he going to be a 20 goal guy, or is he going to need some seasoning? I could see either one happening.

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04-20-2006, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
I don't know about that.
I think that of all the AHL guys, Kopecky is most NHL ready.
Hudler is still boom or bust, IMO, and I don't think he's going to win the kind of scoring line job he needs to boom next year.
Filppula, IMO, could use another six months to a year in the AHL.
Grigorenko is a potential Red Wing next year. Then again, he might need seasoning. We really don't know.
So I think Bootland and Kopecky are the most likely choices because it really wouldn't either guy's development to have them on the big team playing 4th line minutes or even sitting in the press box trying to earn their way into the lineup
Bootland and Kopecky may be more NHL ready than Filppula, but their upside can't compete with this. And I really disagree with the notion that a talented young prospect like Valtteri can't flourish and continue to develop with a limited (3rd/4th line) role. In fact, it's the Red Wing way to start guys out with a limited role... see Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Hasn't hurt them any.

I think two forward spots will open up, Mowers and Yzerman. Cleary will slide to the 13th forward spot and Grigs & Flip get into the regular lineup. If it doesn't work out for one of them then they can be optioned to GR, Cleary becomes a regular again and someone (MacLean) becomes the depth guy.

Bootland is a penalty plagued Franzen, no need to have both. And Kopecky is trade bait imo, along with Hudler.

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04-20-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
Bootland and Kopecky may be more NHL ready than Filppula, but their upside can't compete with this. And I really disagree with the notion that a talented young prospect like Valtteri can't flourish and continue to develop with a limited (3rd/4th line) role. In fact, it's the Red Wing way to start guys out with a limited role... see Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Hasn't hurt them any.

I think two forward spots will open up, Mowers and Yzerman. Cleary will slide to the 13th forward spot and Grigs & Flip get into the regular lineup. If it doesn't work out for one of them then they can be optioned to GR, Cleary becomes a regular again and someone (MacLean) becomes the depth guy.

Bootland is a penalty plagued Franzen, no need to have both. And Kopecky is trade bait imo, along with Hudler.
Datsyuk and Zetterberg each had the opportunity for upward mobility, though, and the chance to play with quality linemates. With the way the Wings are formed I don't see the same opportunity existing for Filppula next season, unless he's moved to wing, which is something I have never heard of him doing. He has more potential, but I'm not sold on there being room in the top-9 for that potential to be put to use.

someone like Bootland or Kopecky is built for the bottom end, though. It doesn't really hurt them at all to play in the bottom six and could bring somthing to the table the wings usually lack (size and grit, while Kopecky doesn't seem to be a half bad skater, either).

I think it'll play out as Filppula seeing time in Detroit next year, but as a callup and being given a full spot the following year when Lang leaves and can slot right into that third line center spot behind Z (and hopefully Dats).

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04-20-2006, 11:42 AM
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I wouldn't say Kopecky is built for the bottom. It takes big guys a while to get their legs most of the time, so we might be seeing the start of Kopecky's development, not the end. A guy that big that can move and shoot the puck the way he does, I'd hate to throw him away. If there weren't so many players in the way, I think a Kopecky-Filppula 3rd line with Williams or Franzen would work really well and have some scoring punch to go with some grit and some defense.

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04-20-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
I wouldn't say Kopecky is built for the bottom. It takes big guys a while to get their legs most of the time, so we might be seeing the start of Kopecky's development, not the end. A guy that big that can move and shoot the puck the way he does, I'd hate to throw him away. If there weren't so many players in the way, I think a Kopecky-Filppula 3rd line with Williams or Franzen would work really well and have some scoring punch to go with some grit and some defense.
I'll agree with the 3rd line possibility for Kopecky. I'd like to see him tried out with Lang next year, along with maybe Williams (or Hudler, if there's room...)

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04-20-2006, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Winger98
Datsyuk and Zetterberg each had the opportunity for upward mobility, though, and the chance to play with quality linemates. With the way the Wings are formed I don't see the same opportunity existing for Filppula next season, unless he's moved to wing, which is something I have never heard of him doing. He has more potential, but I'm not sold on there being room in the top-9 for that potential to be put to use.

someone like Bootland or Kopecky is built for the bottom end, though. It doesn't really hurt them at all to play in the bottom six and could bring somthing to the table the wings usually lack (size and grit, while Kopecky doesn't seem to be a half bad skater, either).

I think it'll play out as Filppula seeing time in Detroit next year, but as a callup and being given a full spot the following year when Lang leaves and can slot right into that third line center spot behind Z (and hopefully Dats).
There's always room for upward mobility. If Filppula impresses enough that we have to get him into the top 9 he can either move to the wing (which is somewhat probable anyway imo) or Hank can be bumped back to the left side to open up a center spot. I think Filppula has pretty much established himself as the first call-up from GR and the next player into the Wings lineup.

I'm really not opposed to holding on to Kopecky as a depth player. It's how we started with Williams and that worked out well. But I don't think there's any way he makes the starting 12 out of camp next year.

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04-20-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
There's always room for upward mobility. If Filppula impresses enough that we have to get him into the top 9 he can either move to the wing (which is somewhat probable anyway imo) or Hank can be bumped back to the left side to open up a center spot. I think Filppula has pretty much established himself as the first call-up from GR and the next player into the Wings lineup.

I'm really not opposed to holding on to Kopecky as a depth player. It's how we started with Williams and that worked out well. But I don't think there's any way he makes the starting 12 out of camp next year.
You think Zetterberg will play the wing again? Unlless there is a secial circumstance (rejoing Datsyuk on a "super" line) I think we've seen the last of Hank at wing.

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04-20-2006, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 8snake
You think Zetterberg will play the wing again? Unlless there is a secial circumstance (rejoing Datsyuk on a "super" line) I think we've seen the last of Hank at wing.
Never say never. Hank got his break when Lang was out, allowing him to play at center. Who can say another circumstance won't change that again? What if Hank gets hurt next year and we go with Datsyuk/Lang/Filppula at center and they're all rolling along very well?

Like I said in my post, I think it's more likely that Filppula will get moved to the wing. But with 3 top line quality centers already on the roster something will have to give should another keeper come along, and Hank can play LW very well. Let me put it this way - of Dats/Hank/Lang the one most likely to be moved to wing is Hank.

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04-20-2006, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by doublejack
Never say never. Hank got his break when Lang was out, allowing him to play at center. Who can say another circumstance won't change that again? What if Hank gets hurt next year and we go with Datsyuk/Lang/Filppula at center and they're all rolling along very well?

Like I said in my post, I think it's more likely that Filppula will get moved to the wing. But with 3 top line quality centers already on the roster something will have to give should another keeper come along, and Hank can play LW very well. Let me put it this way - of Dats/Hank/Lang the one most likely to be moved to wing is Hank.
Agree with all that...it's a compliment to Zetterberg's game that he can move to wing and do well (as Forsberg has done). But another reason he's most likely to move is because when Babcock had Lang play wing he basically pouted and played God-awful until he moved back to center.

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04-20-2006, 07:11 PM
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Kopecky and roster moves

If there is a "name player" to be moved this summer I don't think its Maltby. I think its Lang. Maltby does not have a big market value while Lang can get you more in the summer when GM's are not as "tuned in" to on ice performance and look mostly at stats. I don't mind Lang but he is not strong on the puck, is notorious to making a soft pass that gets picked off and has little or no grit. So maybe the periodic recalling of Filpulla is an audition to see if the Wings can risk moving Lang over the summer. And in my fantasy I'd like to move Lang at the draft along with our #1 for a #1 in the top 6 or 7 picks or a #1 between 12 -15 and a #2. (Remember, I said "in my fantasy"!) But that kind of move frees up some extra cap space if we decide to do something bigger.

Now if they do something like that, they make room for Filpulla and Kopecky. Tomas, at the minimum, deserves a shot at the NHL. If he is okay but not great you can give him time to develop. If he blossoms quickly even better. And if he is only average, there are any number of teams that can be talked into taking a risk on him for a mid round pick (Pittsburg, Florida, NYI, etc).

I see Hudler as a mid-season call up. He has to get consistant and hungry. And as much as there is some appreciation for Maclean, I don't see him making it. He is likely to sign a two way deal. It has been reported that waivers on players moving up and down are going to be changed this summer which may make it possible for us to keep him. Otherwise, he is in Grand Rapids or somewhere else in the AHL.

None of us (certainly not me!) have seen much of Igor Grigorenko except on tape. He strikes as a Martin Lapointe with more skill and more brains. He's about the same size and seems to have the same hard nosed attitude. From what I read in all the reviews about him, I think he projects to be a 65-70 point, 25 to 30 goal scorer with 100 minutes in penalties to boot. He likes to hit, he plays with grit and he has a 'heavy' shot. I think he'd look great along side of Datsyuk. So I'd put together a line-up that looks something like this:

Shanny Dats Grigorenko
Homer Zett Samuelsson
Maybe a top six U.F.A. forward
Williams Filpulla Kopecky
Franzen Draper Maltby
Cleary

at least that is how it looks to me on the eve of our run for our next Cup.

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04-21-2006, 05:45 AM
  #24
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The reason myself and others have suggested trading Maltby is not because of what he will bring in return, it's about getting his 1.44 mil salary off the books and getting a younger, faster, cheaper, more talented player in his roster spot. Anything they get in return would be gravy IMO.

Depending on what they can get for Lang, I would say it is a possibility, but if they're just going to throw away a player to free up a roster spot it should be Maltby. If the deal you talk about were possible and they could get into the top 10 of the draft, then I would look into it. But I don't think that's a possibility. And for it to be a decent trade, the guy they draft would have to be ready to play or very close - he should see the ice with the Wings in a year or less. Weakening the team's depth should only be done if they sign a superior player and need the cap space, or if it's going to bring in a player who will be able to provide a lot of help in the near future.

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04-21-2006, 11:50 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain
I love some of those lines. Three good scoring lines, Zetterberg back on Center where he belongs, and a grind line with some scoring upside. You think Kopecky good enough defensively to go against opponents best lines? I really don't see the Wings trading Maltby.
I agree. The Wings will not trade Maltby.

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