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10-31-2003, 04:33 AM
  #1
Marconius
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Dvo in Edmonton

So far, it seems like the general concensus is that Dvorak is playing well, despite not racking up the points. He had another great game yesterday but only picked up 1 point (although he hit at least 1 post in my recollection). He was flying all night and seems to have that extra gear and acceleration where he can just blow by a guy. I believe he was first star tonight as well.
So my question is 2-fold: First, How do you feel about the Carter-Dvorak trade at this point (and my I remind you Carter only scored his first goal of the season the other day)
Second, it seems to me that Dvorak loves it here. I don't know if its the ice, more minutes, being in a true hockey city or something else, but i just watched a postgame interview with him and he just seems to be stoked to be here.

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10-31-2003, 04:40 AM
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I personally like the trade, simply because Dvorak brings a very good defensive presence as well as good offensive instincts.

He is also super fast, so like last night, he may not be scoring, but he is creating lots of chances... and that I can handle, it is when you aren't scoring and not creating chances (like Carter was during his annual Jan-Feb slump).

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10-31-2003, 04:47 AM
  #3
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I liked the trade right from the beginning. i think I was one of the few who were defending K Lowe on his decission. Mind you I was never a huge Carter fan.

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10-31-2003, 05:10 AM
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Marconius
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How do you gys think Dvorak feels about playing here? MacT & Lowe have always said they are only interested in players who WANT to play in Edmonton (perhaps the reason they shipped Carter out in the first place). Guys like Smyth, Moreau etc. I think Dvorak is another player in this mold. He seems like hes not just content to be here, but rather, that he wants to be here. Maybe it's my imagination or wishful thinking, but I think Dvo is gonna be an Oiler for a long time

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10-31-2003, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
How do you gys think Dvorak feels about playing here? MacT & Lowe have always said they are only interested in players who WANT to play in Edmonton (perhaps the reason they shipped Carter out in the first place). Guys like Smyth, Moreau etc. I think Dvorak is another player in this mold. He seems like hes not just content to be here, but rather, that he wants to be here. Maybe it's my imagination or wishful thinking, but I think Dvo is gonna be an Oiler for a long time
I think he really wanted just a fresh start period... but when it was Edmonton, he knew it was a team that he could easily adapt to, and thrive in because of his speed...

Time will tell though, and we will see how big a contract he wants if he has a good comeback year.

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10-31-2003, 05:23 AM
  #6
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kind of a bad time to ask because he just had his best game of the year but my opinion of him was just reinforced, not changed.

IMO, he is pure oiler. He can skate and is maybe our most skilled forward at high speed. His points will come as he creates so many chances. Many times, Carter would be invisible in a game where he got a couple of points. When devo gets a couple of points, he is the most noticable guy on the ice.

I really like this deal based on carter for devo but when you include age, salary, and cross for pisa, then lowe picked slats' pocket.

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10-31-2003, 05:27 AM
  #7
Marconius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
kind of a bad time to ask because he just had his best game of the year but my opinion of him was just reinforced, not changed.

IMO, he is pure oiler. He can skate and is maybe our most skilled forward at high speed. His points will come as he creates so many chances. Many times, Carter would be invisible in a game where he got a couple of points. When devo gets a couple of points, he is the most noticable guy on the ice.

I really like this deal based on carter for devo but when you include age, salary, and cross for pisa, then lowe picked slats' pocket.

Thats it exactly. He is pure Oiler. Anyone know when his contract is up? And did anyone ever confirm how much of his salary the Oilers are actually paying?

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Old
10-31-2003, 06:03 AM
  #8
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I agree with you guys as well. This guy was VERY excited about being here when he got traded, and that by it's self is a HUGE HUGE plus IMO. Then throw in the fact that he is faster, more physical, works harder, is MUCH better defensively, younger, cheaper, and has as much offensive prowess and should put up the same amount of points as if Carter was on the second line in Edmonton for me makes it a robbery.

What is this talk about the Rags paying for some of Dvo's salary? Is that true? I hope it is, because that means the Oil SHOULD have more room in the cap. Just my opinion.

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10-31-2003, 06:05 AM
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The rags aren't paying any of Dvorak's Salary.

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10-31-2003, 07:00 AM
  #10
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I'm not 100% sure, but I could have sworn that when we made the trade it looked to be pretty lopsided in the Rag's favor. Then some rumors started circulating that the Rags were going to be picking some of Dvo's salary. I never remember it being confirmed, but I do seem to remember a lot of people dancing around the question when asked. The trade did seem to make a lot more sense if the Rags were paying some of the salary

If I remember correctly it was Carter (a point producing firstliner) for Dvo (a nonproducing non-firstliner coming off a knee injury). This seemed a bit lopsided as a 1 for 1, but then we learned that Lowe threw in Pisa (some would say a blossoming defender with a some offensive upside)

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10-31-2003, 07:02 AM
  #11
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The salary thing was mostly speculation by some of us incredulous fans at the time of the trade, where that (Rangers picking up some of the salary) would have made it a more acceptable deal at the time.

(Bearing in mind that many of us knew ZERO about Dvorak, only that he had 6 goals at that point compared to Carter's...what, 23?

I didn't like the deal at the time, again because I didn't know what Dvorak was like as a player, but I liked Radek the first time I saw him interviewed after the trade...he looked like it was Christmas and his present was the best thing ever. Some guys say they're happy to be going to a place, but he LOOKED and SOUNDED happy, too. A big plus, and the more I've seen the guy the more I've liked him. I thought he even adapted fairly quickly to the Oilers after the trade & showed more heart and grit than Carter had the whole season (imo).

I wouldn't trade them straight up now - Dvorak's a keeper! If he can play most games like he did last night, we'll be in great shape...

Bart

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10-31-2003, 07:03 AM
  #12
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In terms of pure offensive production, neither Dvorak nor Carter have been big hits yet (though Dvorak does have a slight edge right now).

One thing I like about Dvorak is that he doesn't need to be producing points to make a positive difference on the ice. His superior speed helps draw penalties, he can play on both the PP and PK, and he does seem a bit more physical (not a lot more though IMO). With Carter, if he isn't scoring he isn't doing much else.

One thing that worries me about him though is this "he does everything but score" vibe I keep sensing off him. How many times since the trade has it been said "Wow, Dvo looks really good! He's just snakebit right now, the points will come..." We were warned about this beforehand by some Rags fans, I'm hoping it's not a sign of things to come.

Oh yeah, the 3 years younger and $800000 cheaper than Carter dealie doesn't hurt either.

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10-31-2003, 07:11 AM
  #13
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I think everyone one here was more or less giving Carter the benefit of the doubt because he WAS traded over here for Bill Guerin. I was never a big fan though but he was the closing thing to a top line right winger that we had. He was a drifter and fed off his linemates. He's showing his true colors in NY. I like DVo. Seems like he wants to make something happen in every shift (especially last night)

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10-31-2003, 07:28 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barto
Some guys say they're happy to be going to a place, but he LOOKED and SOUNDED happy, too. A big plus, and the more I've seen the guy the more I've liked him. I thought he even adapted fairly quickly to the Oilers after the trade & showed more heart and grit than Carter had the whole season (imo).

I wouldn't trade them straight up now - Dvorak's a keeper! If he can play most games like he did last night, we'll be in great shape...

Bart
I agree. Virtually every player interviewed after a trade will give the "sorry to leave my old team, but happy to join the new team" speech. Dvo was a little different. He truly did seemt o be happy, he wasn't just paying lipservice. Someone else mentioned that he was just happy to have a fresh start, any fresh start. That could also be true, but I'd like to think once he learned what the Oilers organization was all about, he was that much happier.
I also don't think I would reverse the Carter-Dvo trade at this point. At least Dvorak brings other elements to his game when hes not scoring. His speed has definitely impressed me.

A few unrelated questions:
1. Do you think the Oilers really do ahve a tighter dressing room then other teams around the league? Or is it basically just hype and a desire to believe it on our part?
2. Laraque wasn't born/raised here so why does he seem to have this huge loyalty towards the city? (Charity work, calims to retire if he's traded...etc)

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10-31-2003, 07:55 AM
  #15
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as for as dvo goes, im a BIG fan... i mean a BIG fan of his.... personally i think he is one of the best all-round players the oilers have had this season.... hes fast, plays very good defensive hockey, can PK and PP, and he *will* score, lol.... he might not get 30 a year like carter did, but i think he will get 15-20... ill take the 10 goal difference for all the other things dvo brings to the ice

as far as the dressing room thing goes, i cant see why edmonton would have a better dressing room than all the other teams.... seems like BS to me actually.... im sure there are some dressing rooms that are better and some that are worst

with laraque, i think his love for the city stems from the fact that he really seems to be a VERY nice person, and im not saying that because hes an oiler and im a fan.... in fact i OFTEN yell at laraque during games for poor play, lol.... but from his actions, his involvement with the community, his interviews - he just seems like an honest-to-goodness good person... i think this really came across after his accident last year, he was just *so* concerned for the other people, and you could tell he wasnt just "faking it" for the reporters too look like the good guy in the situation.... i dont know that he would retire if he got traded, but it seems that he has made this his home and would be very upset... i think this is true of all "good people", they grow attached to people and a city and are sad to leave

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10-31-2003, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
A few unrelated questions:
1. Do you think the Oilers really do ahve a tighter dressing room then other teams around the league? Or is it basically just hype and a desire to believe it on our part?
2. Laraque wasn't born/raised here so why does he seem to have this huge loyalty towards the city? (Charity work, calims to retire if he's traded...etc)
Honestly?

I think their dressing room used to be tighter a couple of years ago...when guys like Murray, Grier, Niinimaa and Marchant left it changed things. I wouldn't say their room is bad by any stretch, but I do think it's a room in transition.

As for BG, not sure what it is with him. Not that it's a bad trait by any stretch, but no less curious either.

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Old
10-31-2003, 09:52 AM
  #17
Marconius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
Honestly?

I think their dressing room used to be tighter a couple of years ago...when guys like Murray, Grier, Niinimaa and Marchant left it changed things. I wouldn't say their room is bad by any stretch, but I do think it's a room in transition.

As for BG, not sure what it is with him. Not that it's a bad trait by any stretch, but no less curious either.
The 'tight dressing room' is thrown around a lot. Sometimes I get the feeling that its just something people come up with in order to compensate. We have a team that lately hasn't been able to win a playoff round and aren't considered contenders, but at least "we have the tightest dressing room" or at least "we have the best ice"
i was curious about the dressing room thing because it seems to me that Dvo would be a perfect fit, somene who might take a little less down the road in order to stay with a tightly knit team

About Laraque, it just seems strange to me that he wouldn't want to play for Montreal or something. How did we come by Laraque exactly? Did we draft him? or has he played some games with another team?

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10-31-2003, 10:08 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
The 'tight dressing room' is thrown around a lot. Sometimes I get the feeling that its just something people come up with in order to compensate. We have a team that lately hasn't been able to win a playoff round and aren't considered contenders, but at least "we have the tightest dressing room" or at least "we have the best ice"
i was curious about the dressing room thing because it seems to me that Dvo would be a perfect fit, somene who might take a little less down the road in order to stay with a tightly knit team

About Laraque, it just seems strange to me that he wouldn't want to play for Montreal or something. How did we come by Laraque exactly? Did we draft him? or has he played some games with another team?
We drafted him, back when the Entry Draft was held here in Edmonton (1995, I think - I was even there!). He was a 2nd-round pick. Maybe he feels some loyalty to the team (& city) that gave him a shot at the NHL...? Although I suspect he would be kinda the same in whatever NHL city he would have ended up in (if the Oilers hadn't picked him).

And being from Quebec, he knows how the media and fans treat the hockey players there, so he's not all that anxious to go through that himself.

I dunno - he comes across as a pretty nice, friendly guy, but was pretty cool when I said hi at the Callingwood Safeway (back during training camp), and the cashier said he goes there often and is kind of a dink...

Bart

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10-31-2003, 10:32 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
About Laraque, it just seems strange to me that he wouldn't want to play for Montreal or something.
(kind of like how it seems strange that Mike Comrie wouldn't want to play hockey in Edmonton? )

He's joked that he can hardly afford to play one game a year in Montreal, let alone 41, because of all the tickets he has to buy for friends and family. I've also heard him say that when he was drafted, he was hoping to be drafted by any team except Montreal. I suspect Barto is right about the reason why, and it's probably a factor in the Comrie situation as well.

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10-31-2003, 10:38 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
(kind of like how it seems strange that Mike Comrie wouldn't want to play hockey in Edmonton? )

He's joked that he can hardly afford to play one game a year in Montreal, let alone 41, because of all the tickets he has to buy for friends and family. I've also heard him say that when he was drafted, he was hoping to be drafted by any team except Montreal. I suspect Barto is right about the reason why, and it's probably a factor in the Comrie situation as well.
But Comrie should have known the same thing about Edmonton that Laraque knew about Montreal, yet he still signed a contract that gave Edmonton his rights for another...what, 8 years beyond the end of that first contract.

You're probably right, though, that maybe Comrie didn't think it would be quite like this when he signed that first deal and is now balking at staying here another X number of years... Still, he should at least suck it up, sign some kind of reasonable contract and play while Lowe works the phones for a deal.

Bart

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10-31-2003, 11:41 AM
  #21
Marconius
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I don't know, maybe its because I can't truly imagine what it would be like, but i was born/raised in Edmonton and if I was good enough it would be my dream to play here. Easy to say though, maybe the novelty of being the hometown boy wears off pretty quickly...

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10-31-2003, 11:47 AM
  #22
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It's not *just* the hometown factor. I mean, Pisani and Chimera are hometown boys-- I doubt they're afraid to leave their homes or anything...

What's the difference in Comrie's case? His talent-level, obviously, and his family's profile in this community. It seemed like a natural for him to wind up on the cover of the team's yearbook and all that.

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10-31-2003, 12:58 PM
  #23
Marconius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
It's not *just* the hometown factor. I mean, Pisani and Chimera are hometown boys-- I doubt they're afraid to leave their homes or anything...

What's the difference in Comrie's case? His talent-level, obviously, and his family's profile in this community. It seemed like a natural for him to wind up on the cover of the team's yearbook and all that.
Good point about Pisani/Chimera. I don't think it's necessarily Comrie's talent level that makes him different. Rather, its his salary (I suppose you might argue the two go hand-in-hand). Lets face it, Edmonton is a blue collar town, we don't cotton to people who pull in huge salaries and then whine about getting what they deserve. Chimera/Pisani are both underdogs, fighting to keep their roster spot most nights, while Comrie gets labelled as the spoiled rich kid...

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10-31-2003, 01:15 PM
  #24
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I think the biggest part with BG is that the community has really embraced him, and he took to us two - and it's kind of a circle now. I don't know how much attention this got, but I have a story. I'm from a small town called Marwayne - it's N-E of Lloydminster by about a 1/2 hour. About 300 people live there. Anyways, there was a girl who was graduating, so she emailed Georges Laraque asking him if he wanted to be her escort to grad (she never imagined he'd even see the email himself). She got a call back from him accepting the invite and he said HE was honored for somebody to ask him..... After the main recep, everybody got their pic. taken with him and got autographs and all that stuff (it was a bigger deal he was there then it was that it was grad.), and after even took all the guys to the parking lot and showed him his car and everything. Something like that will never be forgotten in that little town, and that sort of thing is what makes him REALLY REALLY REALLY popular.

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10-31-2003, 04:06 PM
  #25
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That's a great story, thome_26!

I remember the TSN telecast from the '95 draft. Near the end of the telecast, the hosts recapped the players who were taken at the beginning of the second round. Right after the Oilers drafted Laraque, Bob McKenzie said that "The Rock" would become popular in Edmonton. (I suspect it was only because he was a goon chosen at a time when our "tough guy" was Bill Huard, but that's another story. )

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