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Hypothetical Scenario: Bonk to Minors

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07-16-2006, 10:19 AM
  #1
Mike8
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Hypothetical Scenario: Bonk to Minors

I haven't read the new CBA, so to those that know it: what happens if Bonk's sent to the AHL? I know he'd go through waivers, but does his contract count against the cap?

In NJ, one method they used to circumvent their cap issues was by sending Dan McGillis down to the AHL. Because he's under 35 (I believe), his contract didn't count against their cap (again, I believe). On the other hand, Mogilny and Malakhov's contracts did count against the cap because they were over 35 when they signed their respective deals.

So I'm curious here: what happens if Lapierre or Chipchura beat out Bonk in camp. Management decides he's not worth his contract, and there are no takers on the trade market. So Bonk is sent down to the Bulldogs. If his contract doesn't count against the cap, this would give the Habs a lot of wiggle room.


Note: I actually liked what Bonk brought down the stretch last year, but I'm not sure if he brought anything that Lapierre wouldn't bring.

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07-16-2006, 10:27 AM
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He's under 35?
I thought he was like 46 or something.

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07-16-2006, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
He's under 35?
I thought he was like 46 or something.
No No he only plays like 46

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07-16-2006, 10:36 AM
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I don't see much point in it... what do we need Bonk's cap room for? Sending him down would only stir up trouble that we don't need to stir up. I don't think a Chipchura or Lapierre can beat him out in camp. Or at least, he'd have to fall so far off the minimal standards of NHL professional conditioning and preparation that it's really hard to imagine. Now, it might be another matter if Bonk just starts off as uselessly in the regular season as he started last year. Maybe he could "earn" a demotion by playing bad enough for the first month or two of the year. But I don't think it would happen out of camp. Equally likely, I could see him rebounding and challenging Ribeiro's job. Neither extreme is likely, of course.

The safe middle ground is that he'll be a decent 3rd/4th line PK guy again who can chip in 20-30 pts and occasionally play on a higher line if injuries require it. No need to dream up extreme doomsday scenarios for no reason. We don't need his cap room for anything else, and the Habs aren't going to make themselves an attractive UFA destination for the future by stuffing vets on unattractive contracts in the minors. We can live with his salary, and it goes away next year. No need to get carried away about it.

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07-16-2006, 10:58 AM
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Not to mention that if Bonk was sent down, there would be no possibility of using him for the rest of the year. When he would pass through re-entry waivers another team would pick him up, no question, and we'd be stuck with half his salary anyway.

Though I understand the hypothetical question I don't see any possibility of Lapierre beating him out in camp. He's not as bad as this board makes him out to be.

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07-16-2006, 11:05 AM
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Bob in Niagara
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Not to mention that if Bonk was sent down, there would be no possibility of using him for the rest of the year. When he would pass through re-entry waivers another team would pick him up, no question, and we'd be stuck with half his salary anyway.

Though I understand the hypothetical question I don't see any possibility of Lapierre beating him out in camp. He's not as bad as this board makes him out to be.
I see no problem with putting him on waivers. I would hope and pray that another team would pick him up. I'd be happy to just pay half his salary this year and give part of the remainder to one of our young kids.

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07-16-2006, 11:05 AM
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Folks, you're misunderstanding the point of this thread. Perhaps I should have emphasized the fact that it's more of a question than a point. Will Bonk's contract count against the cap if he's in the minors? I didn't follow the NJ situation closely so I'm not absolutely certain that McGillis' contract didn't count against the Devils' cap.


As for actually sending Bonk down: I disagree with Blind Guardian's take on this. Why would you presume to know whether Montreal would have other uses for the cap room? I suspect some teams will look to shed some cap space if/when UFAs/high-priced players don't work out, and I suspect a couple of those players would be identified as being useful for this club by Montreal management.

I'm not dreaming up any 'doomsday scenario'. Yeesh.

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07-16-2006, 11:05 AM
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If we could somehow turn all that money given to Bonk and Ribeiro (nearly $5 million dollars????) into a real player, that would be magic.

I don't understand the overpayment to Ribs at all. Even if we somehow managed to lose them both on waivers, I don't think this team is any worse to be honest.

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Samsonov-Johnson-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Kostitsyn/Latendresse
Begin-Murray-Downey
Lapierre

No way Chipchura is ready if you saw him at the development camp. Latendresse on the other hand...

I know Mogilny was sent down, but isn't his contract still a hit on the cap? Should probably post this in the Jersey room.

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07-16-2006, 11:34 AM
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I'll predict now that Lats will get a 10 games tryout.

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07-16-2006, 12:16 PM
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they never are going to send him in the farm team ...You can do that for an offensive player that just play an unidimensional game , but not for a player as Bonk .

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07-16-2006, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
He's under 35?
I thought he was like 46 or something.
he's born in 1976, still 30

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07-16-2006, 12:34 PM
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I'd try Bonk out before I send him anywhere. He had a bad season last year but he might surprise. If he somehow returns to Ottawa form -- a long shot, I'll admit -- he could become a valid option at centre #2.

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07-16-2006, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Folks, you're misunderstanding the point of this thread. Perhaps I should have emphasized the fact that it's more of a question than a point. Will Bonk's contract count against the cap if he's in the minors? I didn't follow the NJ situation closely so I'm not absolutely certain that McGillis' contract didn't count against the Devils' cap.


As for actually sending Bonk down: I disagree with Blind Guardian's take on this. Why would you presume to know whether Montreal would have other uses for the cap room? I suspect some teams will look to shed some cap space if/when UFAs/high-priced players don't work out, and I suspect a couple of those players would be identified as being useful for this club by Montreal management.

I'm not dreaming up any 'doomsday scenario'. Yeesh.
I dont see something like that been done by the Habs but my understanding is that Bonk's contract wouldnt count against the cap.

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07-16-2006, 12:58 PM
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Thanks! Took awhile, but someone finally recognized the fact that this was a question first and foremost.

Remember Czerkawski was sent down to the AHL once as well. Dykhuis, too. But I'd agree that this would be a surprise with Bonk.

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07-16-2006, 01:07 PM
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Bonk had a crap year, he's a very capable 3rd or even 2nd centerman if he's in shape. plays well both sides of the ice.

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07-16-2006, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Folks, you're misunderstanding the point of this thread. Perhaps I should have emphasized the fact that it's more of a question than a point. Will Bonk's contract count against the cap if he's in the minors? I didn't follow the NJ situation closely so I'm not absolutely certain that McGillis' contract didn't count against the Devils' cap.
Ok. Indeed, it wouldn't count against the cap.
Quote:
As for actually sending Bonk down: I disagree with Blind Guardian's take on this. Why would you presume to know whether Montreal would have other uses for the cap room? I suspect some teams will look to shed some cap space if/when UFAs/high-priced players don't work out, and I suspect a couple of those players would be identified as being useful for this club by Montreal management.
I guess there will always be mid-season dumps. (See Fedorov and Sykora last season). But personally, I'm all for hoping that the Habs aren't going to be interested in picking up any of these players who other teams are so eager to dump. I guess I can't presume to KNOW that they won't be interested, but I sure hope that things don't get that bad for us. And if they do, then perhaps I'd also like to think it might be because of injuries, in which case we'd be able to replace that cap space, and sending Bonk to the minors still wouldn't be part of the equation.
Quote:
I'm not dreaming up any 'doomsday scenario'. Yeesh.
Sorry, still sounds pretty much like a doomsday scenario to me! (Never hurts to cover all the bases, though... we've got 2 more months to explore them all!!!).

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07-16-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I haven't read the new CBA, so to those that know it: what happens if Bonk's sent to the AHL? I know he'd go through waivers, but does his contract count against the cap?

In NJ, one method they used to circumvent their cap issues was by sending Dan McGillis down to the AHL. Because he's under 35 (I believe), his contract didn't count against their cap (again, I believe). On the other hand, Mogilny and Malakhov's contracts did count against the cap because they were over 35 when they signed their respective deals.

You're right. If Bonk is ever waived and sent down to the minors his contract will not count against the cap. New Jersey was able to save cap room by waiving and sending McGillis to the minors last year. However, Mogilny and Malakhov still count against the cap this year and last year because there is a provision in the CBA that a contract for a player 35 years or older counts against the cap no matter what, they could retire, die, leave for injury reasons, etc., doesn't matter. Apparently, Lamorello himself wanted this clause in the CBA because was tired of older players getting 'golden pension' contracts in their waning years. He then went out and got bit by it.

It's an out for the Habs. If Bonk doesn't perform this year and a rookie proves he is ready to step in they could waive Bonk and clear him from the cap. However, they would still have to pay him his $2-million plus salary while he was in the minors.

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07-16-2006, 01:20 PM
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bonk was a very effective shut down guy last year .

i see no reason to deal him or send him to the minors . carbo has to love his style . as i said before if it's a pure defense game/ 4 th line role he wants to play in his last year of a contract fine with me just next year we sign him at 1.25-1.5 million for 3 years.


it's really up to bonk . this is his contract year . score more goals get a better contract . continue to play shut down defense role his contract will be less next season .


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Old
07-16-2006, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Sorry, still sounds pretty much like a doomsday scenario to me! (Never hurts to cover all the bases, though... we've got 2 more months to explore them all!!!).
It can't be a doomsday scenario. It was more of a question regarding Montreal's options. If Montreal comes across a talent that they feel would be a major boost to the team, they'll likely need to get creative in generating cap room. Hence the Bonk question.

If anything, this scenario is more on the optimistic side that Montreal management will continually be looking towards improving the roster.

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07-16-2006, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by westcoast habsfan View Post
You're right. If Bonk is ever waived and sent down to the minors his contract will not count against the cap. New Jersey was able to save cap room by waiving and sending McGillis to the minors last year. However, Mogilny and Malakhov still count against the cap this year and last year because there is a provision in the CBA that a contract for a player 35 years or older counts against the cap no matter what, they could retire, die, leave for injury reasons, etc., doesn't matter. Apparently, Lamorello himself wanted this clause in the CBA because was tired of older players getting 'golden pension' contracts in their waning years. He then went out and got bit by it.

It's an out for the Habs. If Bonk doesn't perform this year and a rookie proves he is ready to step in they could waive Bonk and clear him from the cap. However, they would still have to pay him his $2-million plus salary while he was in the minors.
And thank you for the clarification.

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07-16-2006, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
If anything, this scenario is more on the optimistic side that Montreal management will continually be looking towards improving the roster.
... by picking up some other team's discarded albatross carcass? Hmmm. Doomsday, I say! Doooooomsday!

A funny thing happened on the way to the Forum this July... all those contracts we were so stressed out about last season... Bonk and Rivet to the head of the line... well, they don't actually look so bad now. Rivet's is actually a bit of a bargain. Bonk... well, it's still within his ability to actually recoup the value in his contract year and seem like a bargain too. I guess it gives us hope for the upcoming seasons from Ribeiro, Huet, and Bouillon! Now that's a scenario more on the optimistic side!

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07-16-2006, 02:00 PM
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I'd try Bonk out before I send him anywhere. He had a bad season last year but he might surprise. If he somehow returns to Ottawa form -- a long shot, I'll admit -- he could become a valid option at centre #2.
The only way he returns to "Ottawa form" is if we go get Marian Hossa so he can pass the puck to him and let him do all the work.

Sorry, but I can't stand the guy. If he played like he did in the playoffs all year, that would be different. But he won't and you know it.

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07-16-2006, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
... by picking up some other team's discarded albatross carcass? Hmmm. Doomsday, I say! Doooooomsday!
You're assuming I'm referring to Fedorov/Sykora type of players when I'm not.

I haven't looked around the league enough, but I do know a handful of teams are close to the cap with a few RFAs left to sign.

Take NJ for example. They're sitting at $42.5 million, without having signed Gionta, Gomez (going to arbitration), Paul Martin and David Hale. Martin, Gionta and Gomez are all due for good healthy raises; the latter two more than the former.

McGillis and his $2.2 million salary can be sent down to the AHL. That puts NJ at $40.3 million invested, with those same four left to re-sign.

I would say Hale could get roughly $600k. That's $40.9 million.

Gomez's recent production should get him around $3.5 million at least in arbitration. That's $44.4 million.

Gionta's earned at least $2-2.5 million. That's being conservative.

And Martin deserves at least $1 million, I'd say.

All in all, NJ does have some problems here. Undoubtedly, Lamoriello will find a way to be creative. Maybe he'll manage to keep all of his key players there. But what if he decides there is no way to get out of this mess, and he needs to deal a few players and replace them with younger, cheaper, but still talented players?

Montreal's in a position where it can deal younger, cheaper, but still talented albeit unproven players and get some quality veterans in return. I do think Montreal's closing in on being a 'buyer' in this sort of scenario, depending on how the team gels, and how Samsonov/Johnson fit in and so on.

This is the sort of scenario I'm looking at, and where Bonk heading to the minors could be seen as an option. While I did like Bonk down the stretch and in the playoffs, and I do think he's better than any of our younger players in that role, I don't think he's the best player on his line and I do think that a player like Lapierre could sufficiently fulfill that role so that it wouldn't be made a weakness ... all the while Montreal could severely upgrade in a position that has more of an impact.

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07-16-2006, 02:19 PM
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You're assuming I'm referring to Fedorov/Sykora type of players when I'm not.

I haven't looked around the league enough, but I do know a handful of teams are close to the cap with a few RFAs left to sign.

Take NJ for example. They're sitting at $42.5 million, without having signed Gionta, Gomez (going to arbitration), Paul Martin and David Hale. Martin, Gionta and Gomez are all due for good healthy raises; the latter two more than the former.
Well, fwiw (which I don't expect to be much) I have looked at all the teams. Strangely enough (it surprises even me) I think the vast majority of NHL teams have managed their new cap space exceedingly well, and if the music stopped today, there would only be NJ in trouble, just as you described in detail. (Even taking the remaining RFA's into account).

Of course, I'm not sure if the music is going to stop just yet. There are still a scattered few UFAs around, and I wouldn't be stunned to see a few teams that are projected to be "ok" today suddenly make a blind plunge on a Sykora or Rucinsky or Carter or whatever. But who knows. If Pittsburgh just signs all these guys, it will all balance nicely.

And even then, when it comes to any team that does put itself into a NJ-like situation... or NJ themselves... what are they going to do? Give us Gionta or Gomez? Or are they going to pay some below-the-floor team like Pittsburgh a nice draft pick to take Mogilny or Malakhov off their payroll? Dump Gomez... or give up a 2nd to wave goodbye to the albatross... hmmm. Shouldn't be a tough call, should it? In short, I imagine the players who ultimately do get dumped as a result of the salary situations actually will be the Fedorov/Sykora types (or worse), not the actually good players you are thinking of.

But it's all just a theory, of course.

I do see some potential for teams dropping impending-UFA mega-big-salaries during the season if it looks like their teams are floundering. Mats Sundin or Markus Naslund might be a couple of such candidates. (Somebody else's doomsday if it comes to that, of course, but it could happen.) But that breaking point for such players probably won't be reached until the trade deadline, and by then there's only $2M or less left on even their gargantuan deals, which we should be in a position to take on, even with our current default $42M payroll.

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07-16-2006, 02:30 PM
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You are of course right. The point is that the possibility is there for a quality player to be dumped. Boston went through a complete overhaul last season, gutting the (intriguing) core of Thornton, Samsonov, and Boynton ... what happens if Phoenix, a team that's got a revolving door, has spent money this season, but in such a mind-boggling fashion (loading up on right defensemen, for one), completely fails to produce? They may decide to gut their team in similar fashion.

It's a long shot, but it's an example. Teams do gut their core and trade decent players. I wouldn't have minded Demitra on this Montreal team, for example, and how expensive was he, really?

The point is just knowing that there's a viable option for Montreal to quickly cut the pro team's payroll should an opportunity arise for the club to make some serious improvements; not of the Sykora variety.

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