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Toronto in trouble - East wide open

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10-31-2003, 08:19 AM
  #1
bb74
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Toronto in trouble - East wide open

Antropov just went out indefinitely with a bad shoulder injury. This should help open up the East even more as the leafs are old and very injury prone - Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Mogilny - Ouch! Given the likelyhood of 100 man games lost for just these guys I will be impressed if Toronto makes the playoffs now!

No depth, no D, ouch!

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10-31-2003, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
Antropov just went out indefinitely with a bad shoulder injury. This should help open up the East even more as the leafs are old and very injury prone - Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Mogilny - Ouch! Given the likelyhood of 100 man games lost for just these guys I will be impressed if Toronto makes the playoffs now!

No depth, no D, ouch!
someone asked me before the season, "what team(s) do you think will be a surprise in the negative sense of the word?"
my response- toronto and washington
washington b/c you just cannot possibly win games with the dreadful collection of stiffs that they have on D. toronto b/c, as you said, they are very old and injury prone. antropov is the russian version of wendel clark. get this kid a pair of crutches for his birthday, as i feel he'll be hurt on and off throughout his career.

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10-31-2003, 08:34 AM
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I think Toronto will find a way to make it into the playoffs. Like them or hate they have a good leadership. Last year they couldn't win almost a month and still got into the playoffs.

With the loss of Antro they probably regret waving Travis Green.

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10-31-2003, 08:50 AM
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Ottawa is the premier team in the East. Aside from them, who I see as a lock to finish in the top 2 teams, things are wide open - you are right. While it's a little tough to read the B's so far, I don't see a lot of other teams that are clearly better. Philly, on paper, but they implode in some way every year and lack top-shelf quality on the blueline and in net.

Speaking of teams waiting to completely fall apart, will it be more than another month before Washington and NYR completely clean house? Those teams are TERRIBLE and show no signs that they have a clue how to get out of the holes they are in. I see major management changes for both teams before New Years.

 
Old
10-31-2003, 10:37 AM
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We lost Antro, but we have Nieuwendyk, and a full season of Owen Nolan. Since Antropov has never been a serious contributor anyway, I don't think it's that bad. But it does suck.

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10-31-2003, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
Antropov just went out indefinitely with a bad shoulder injury. This should help open up the East even more as the leafs are old and very injury prone - Nolan, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Mogilny - Ouch! Given the likelyhood of 100 man games lost for just these guys I will be impressed if Toronto makes the playoffs now!

No depth, no D, ouch!
PS

I'd rather have Nolan, Niewendyk, Mogilny over any three Bruin forwards out side of Thornton and maybe Samsonov. If we had Thornton, Renberg would put up Murray type numbers too.

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10-31-2003, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
PS

I'd rather have Nolan, Niewendyk, Mogilny over any three Bruin forwards out side of Thornton and Samsonov. If we had Thornton, Renberg would put up Murray type numbers too.
I don't know if I'd rather have your forwards than Boston's, but you are correct -- a bag of potatoes would score 30 on Big Bird's wing. Exhibit A = Mike Knuble.

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10-31-2003, 10:46 AM
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i also picked the maple leafs to miss the playoffs...
the key to there success is Belfour...
if he got injured, then its over...
They are too old and injury prone.
I want them to miss the playoffs and it actually might happen!

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10-31-2003, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
PS

I'd rather have Nolan, Niewendyk, Mogilny over any three Bruin forwards out side of Thornton and maybe Samsonov. If we had Thornton, Renberg would put up Murray type numbers too.
I'm sure your a passionate fan but honestly that is ridiculous- they were all very good players (I actually like Nieuwendyk the best of the three in his prime with the Flames) but they have all slipped especially Joe. Nolan and Alex are still pretty good- worthy of any second line on even a good team but as a threesome they remind me of the Flyers guys- once stars but now not only on the back 9 but into the teens. I think Toronto is going to be free falling within a year back to their days of the 80's. I just can't see them staying afloat. Love Gary Roberts also but he is similar to others. Unless the Leafs can bring up some good kids I can't see them being a threat for years their core is very old.

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10-31-2003, 02:32 PM
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It's great

I love being a Bruins fan - in Toronto.

I sit back and listen to all of the whining and crying on Talk Radio, and it makes my commute all the more fun.

The Leafs blow!

I expect a very up and down turbulant season, and rumour has it that the team has stopped playing for Quinn.

They're lying down on him.

Watch for a great many injuries; but in all that, I still think they're better than quite a few others, plus they have the resources to pick up a Gonchar (if necessary).

the Leafs/ 8th place in the East/ and lots and lots of crying.

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10-31-2003, 07:05 PM
  #11
Stephen
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Originally Posted by DKH
I'm sure your a passionate fan but honestly that is ridiculous- they were all very good players (I actually like Nieuwendyk the best of the three in his prime with the Flames) but they have all slipped especially Joe. Nolan and Alex are still pretty good- worthy of any second line on even a good team but as a threesome they remind me of the Flyers guys- once stars but now not only on the back 9 but into the teens. I think Toronto is going to be free falling within a year back to their days of the 80's. I just can't see them staying afloat. Love Gary Roberts also but he is similar to others. Unless the Leafs can bring up some good kids I can't see them being a threat for years their core is very old.
I'm just saying I'd rather have those guys than what Boston has to offer outside of Thornton and Samsonov. Mogilny can still put up a 1.00+ PPG average. He's more valuable and more skilled than any one of Murray, Rolston, Knuble, Lapointe, etc. He's still probably better than Sergei Samsonov. Owen Nolan is very inconsistent, but he can be dominant at times. If he were playing with Joe Thornton, I'm sure he'd outproduce Murray. Nieuwendyk has a lot of experience, and while his production will be pretty ordinary, I think his playoff savvy and clutch ability will come in handy during the stretch and in the playoffs. I think Roberts is close to the end.

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11-01-2003, 04:02 AM
  #12
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I think Toronto may make a move for a defenseman but overall with Roberts, Neiwendyk and Belfour at least they have three guys who can help pull them out of any slump.

The team that's really in trouble is Washington. They have $75 million committed to a whiner like Jagr and a decent but at times invisible center like Lang. That's right, seventy five mil in guaranteed contracts. Aside from that, they couldn't replace Klee or Johansson this summer in part because of their huge payroll, leaving their defense woefully thin. They've just traded their captain Konowalchuk to the Avs and one of the few go-to guys outside Gonchar, co-captain Peter Bondra, is bound to be headed out too seeing how he's a UFA next summer. Other than that, young players like Halpern and Sutherby are not stepping up and Kolzig is being left out to dry almost nightly. Essentially you have a team with fundamental problems that's land-locked by stupid contracts with no easy answers. Ouch, what a mess.

The two other teams in the East who may be in for some changes are the Carolina Hurricanes and Montreal Canadiens. The Canes need to improve their standing with their fans. As of now they've been getting by, but any big slip and Rutherford may have to shake things up. Carolina has to keep another horrid season like last year's from creeping in. On the other hand, the Habs will definitely make some moves. Bob Gainey was a blood and guts type of player, and he has yet to put his stamp on this team other than chastising the fans for booing Brisebois and dropping a few players from the ranks before the season started. Though there's some talent to build around, none of the typical Gainey size or tenacity can be found.

All three of these teams will be worth watching, especially the Caps. Man o` man, if there was any way the B's could score Gonchar...

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Old
11-01-2003, 04:19 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
I'm just saying I'd rather have those guys than what Boston has to offer outside of Thornton and Samsonov. Mogilny can still put up a 1.00+ PPG average. He's more valuable and more skilled than any one of Murray, Rolston, Knuble, Lapointe, etc. He's still probably better than Sergei Samsonov. Owen Nolan is very inconsistent, but he can be dominant at times. If he were playing with Joe Thornton, I'm sure he'd outproduce Murray. Nieuwendyk has a lot of experience, and while his production will be pretty ordinary, I think his playoff savvy and clutch ability will come in handy during the stretch and in the playoffs. I think Roberts is close to the end.
And if Murray was playing with Sundin he'd put up Daigle type numbers.

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11-01-2003, 08:43 AM
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Interesting to see so many Leafs fans checking in on the B's board.

Regarding the comments on the rosters... I have to disagree with you Stephen, Nolan, Mogilny, Nieuendyk does not a Sams - Joe - Glen line make - you've got some excellent veterans but you put them on the ice together 3 years too late - Nieuendyk is on his last leg (literally) and has lost both his touch and speed - Nolan is just one more crunching hit from back surgery - which has a negative effect on his physical play and style - and he does not just suck up and deliver like Roberts, and Mogilny is still a good sniper but I'd take Sams any day as he does not need someone to make space for him - he does it on his own. So with your top 4 players (excluding Sundin) playing with the injury devil on their shoulders as they backcheck to bail out the D and then forecheck to keep pressure in the O zone because the D can't get involved in the play, and all this on old legs and brittle backs; you've got trouble in TO.

Good luck this year but I see a very tight run to the finish for TO and the 8th slot.

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11-01-2003, 10:36 AM
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Mogilny doesn't need anyone to make space for him. When that guy is inspired, fired up, he goes where he wants to. Anyway, if I had to pick either Mogilny or Samsonov for this year, it would be a tossup.

Outside of Thornton and Samsonov, I'd take Nieuwendyk, Nolan and Mogilny over the likes of Murray, Knuble, Rolston and Lapointe. I like Mogilny better than Murray, I like Nolan better than Knuble and I like Nieuwendyk better than Rolston. The depth on the Leafs isn't that bad.

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11-01-2003, 12:05 PM
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The Leaf's depth isn't that bad on paper but when the injuries bite it will bite them hard.

OK on the Nolan vs. Murray (not a big Murray fan myself) but I'd definitely take Rolston over Nieuy and Sams over Mogilny and still prefer the Boston lineup.

Lapointe I'd take over tucker - just not for 5 mil ;-) and Sandy over Tie - Boyton over McCabe, Jillson over Berg, McGillis over Marchment, etc, etc...

Like I said in the last post, it is not so much a question of who's better than who, but more who can play the game that is expected of them - Quinn has you guys running & gunning and your roster - even when healthy will not be successful at that plus a physical game - we saw that against Philly last year in the playoffs and since there have been no positive changes (Klee?) so I just can't see you doing better with a roster 1 year older and some already damaged goods...

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11-01-2003, 02:06 PM
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Another Boston fan in Toronto here...and trust me, I HATE the Leafs.

But I have to tell you that people on this board greatly underestimate Alexander Mogilny. This is not the goal suck we remember from Buffalo...or the lame guy who sleepwalked through his experience in Vancouver.

He is one of the best-passing wingers in the league...who can shoot the puck as well as most team's top goalscorers. In addition, he has actually become a much better than average defensive player (I can only attribute that to his time in New Jersey).

In short, he's the Leafs best player...better than Sundin. And if we were talking about one season only...I'd even concede (and I"m choking on these words) he's better than ANY Bruins forward except Thornton.

Have to sign off now before I say any more nice words about any member of the Leaf organization. If I ever do this again, please poke me in the eyes with the blade of a hockey stick.

--BCN

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