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Would you trade Datsyuk?

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Old
04-27-2006, 05:58 AM
  #26
GuloGulo
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thing is, when you consider trading away a 90 pts playmaker, you better get something awesome in return. Detroit can't ship out regular season point pickers yet expect to be "in the playoffs where it matters" by default.

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04-27-2006, 06:15 AM
  #27
stu the grim reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuloGulo
Detroit can't ship out regular season point pickers yet expect to be "in the playoffs where it matters" by default.

why not? we had playoff position to spare this season
surely theres a middleground

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04-27-2006, 06:30 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interminded
If it was a good trade, I would trade him, of course.

But first off, that has nothing to do with his recent play.
Any trade that would make the Wings better, is a trade to be considered.

However, I can't think of a possible trade that would give the Wings more value than Pavel Datsyuk does.
A trade for Marty Turco is hilarious. Give away one of the best playmakers in the NHL for a goalie like Turco ?
No way in hell ! If it would be a goalie, than Brodeur. Nothing less.
I would also argue that Luongo would be a goalie I would consider trading for.

Datsyuk is so talented, even if he doesn't produce in the playoffs, they can't trade him unless they really get a jackpot in return, including a guy who either has a history of playoff success or is young and has a makeup and playing style that strongly suggests that he WILL have playoff success.

I would hate to trade Datsyuk for peanuts just to get rid of him after an injury-plagued playoff in what really is his first experience as the go-to guy.

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04-27-2006, 06:31 AM
  #29
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And Turco blows. He had a save percentage under .900 this season and he can't even keep one of the best defensive teams in the league in their first round series. Good luck with that millstone, Dallas. He'll look great next to Guerin for the next several years sucking up cap space.

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04-27-2006, 08:48 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrklima85
What if, just what if, the Penguins wanted to have a star studded line of Crosby, Malkin and Datsyuk, you wouldn't deal him for the #1 overall??

Nice try...no way does Datsyuk get traded for the #2 pick. Washington, which is the team I'd like to trade him to, has the #4 pick, but they probably won't trade that high a pick(Top 4 players are can't miss prospects, and Datsyuk is FA after next year, with a history of jacking up contract demands). Anyewho, Datsyuk and Alex Ovechkin played well together in Russia, so from a regular season standpoint, the Caps might be interested(Although I dunno what the Wings would want back)

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04-27-2006, 08:57 AM
  #31
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Trading for a top pick isn't a bad idea in theory, but who will fill that hole next season? They'd need some sort of decent player in return. The Caps don't have very many decent players. Zubrus is about the only guy on that team I can think of as being a good player for the Wings to pick up other than Ovechkin of course.

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04-27-2006, 08:58 AM
  #32
Winger98
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I think if we're going to trade him, this offseason would be the ideal time to do it. We'd still have Zetterberg, Lang and Draper in the fold to be our top-3 centers, so losing him there wouldn't be that bad of a blow, and it would give the team a whole season to find a new identity without him. It could blow up in our face in a few years if Datsyuk becomes a postseason force, but I'm not sold on the Wings being able to re-sign him after next season, anyway.

Also of interest, Joe Thornton has a whopping one point and a -1 in SJ's three games against Nashville. Would anyone take a similar package for Datsyuk that Boston got for Thornton? Perhaps a little less since Thornton's put up bigger numbers.

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04-27-2006, 09:01 AM
  #33
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Man when you guys would rather hang on to Lang over a Datsyuk (who btw just got back from an injury...early), something is not right...

Any guy can be traded. Stevie was almost traded a couple of times. But it has to be for something big, like Luongo. The Thornton trade will be the embarassment of the decade.

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04-27-2006, 09:08 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu
Man when you guys would rather hang on to Lang over a Datsyuk (who btw just got back from an injury...early), something is not right...

Any guy can be traded. Stevie was almost traded a couple of times. But it has to be for something big, like Luongo. The Thornton trade will be the embarassment of the decade.
Lang has produced in the last 2 postseasons. If Datsyuk is going to disappear in the playoffs, and the Wings can get a BIG return on him this summer, it is worth looking into.

I emphasize the word BIG. They should not trade him unless they get a huge offer which includes help for next season.

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04-27-2006, 09:09 AM
  #35
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What would you guys think of something like Datsyuk + (Manny and a pick or something) for Luongo?

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04-27-2006, 09:11 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake
Comparing Sheppard to Datsyuk shows me you're looking at numbers and didnt watch Detroit during Sheppard's tenure. Datsyuk did more last game than Sheppard did for whole playoff runs. Also, I can name four players (Shannahan, Samuelsson, Homer, Schneider) that are far more ineffective than Datsyuk.
I'm almost speechless. I have to assume you don't realize that Schneider is leading the team in points right now. He's been anything but ineffective.

/rant on
I think too many Wings fans have been spoiled by Lidstrom over the years and expect every defenseman to play flawless hockey. Time to get real, folks. Mortal defensemen make mistakes. Schneider is only human. So yeah, he makes weak turn-around passes across the zone to nobody in particular. And he also gets out of position and takes careless penalties. But it's not like the guy can't play D at all. For the most part he gives us 25 minutes a game of mostly solid play. Lighten up already, at least Matt is showing up. He's only -1, not -4 like some of our other D (*cough* Lidstrom / Lilja *cough*).
/rant off

Datsyuk is stinking up the joint, again. If he doesn't Bring It tm then #1 on my to-do list is to ship him out for the best deal possible. Bertuzzi would probably be my primary target, but Doan, Havlat (who Ottawa may deal for cap reasons), one of Tampa's trio of skilled forwards, Drury, and many other players would be acceptable as a return. My criteria is simple - a player 32 or under who will actually show up in the playoffs.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:14 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu
Man when you guys would rather hang on to Lang over a Datsyuk (who btw just got back from an injury...early), something is not right...

Any guy can be traded. Stevie was almost traded a couple of times. But it has to be for something big, like Luongo. The Thornton trade will be the embarassment of the decade.
It's not a question of either/or, it's a question of being in a position to make a move. I think Lang could do the same thing we can rightfully expect Datsyuk to do: produce solid regular season numbers with top-line minutes. Would we get much for Lang on the open market? I doubt it, but we could get something decent for Datsyuk and losing either would arguably not be that big of a blow to the team. And after next season, the other is quite possibly gone anyway.

And I think hoping for a superstar-for-superstar trade is just another way of saying you wouldn't trade him, because it's so unlikely to happen. The problem is, though, it's not worth having a superstar if he doesn't step up in the playoffs. It's great to get to the postseason, but it's a useless trip if you're not there long enough to get out of your car.

I wouldn't mind if Datsyuk stepped up and made these conversations moot, either.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:15 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I'm almost speechless. I have to assume you don't realize that Schneider is leading the team in points right now. He's been anything but ineffective.

/rant on
I think too many Wings fans have been spoiled by Lidstrom over the years and expect every defenseman to play flawless hockey. Time to get real, folks. Mortal defensemen make mistakes. Schneider is only human. So yeah, he makes weak turn-around passes across the zone to nobody in particular. And he also gets out of position and takes careless penalties. But it's not like the guy can't play D at all. For the most part he gives us 25 minutes a game of mostly solid play. Lighten up already, at least Matt is showing up. He's only -1, not -4 like some of our other D (*cough* Lidstrom / Lilja *cough*).
/rant off

Datsyuk is stinking up the joint, again. If he doesn't Bring It tm then #1 on my to-do list is to ship him out for the best deal possible. Bertuzzi would probably be my primary target, but Doan, Havlat (who Ottawa may deal for cap reasons), one of Tampa's trio of skilled forwards, Drury, and many other players would be acceptable as a return. My criteria is simple - a player 32 or under who will actually show up in the playoffs.
All good points, DJ.

But, I dont see Havlat as an option if the Sens are looking to cut payroll. They cant take Datsyuks near $4 million next season.

I am holding off all of my judgement on Datsyuk until the playoffs are over. He looked pretty good in the OT last game, and I am REALLY hoping he can maintain that level. He has to.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:17 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
Hey guys, I'm disappointed with Pavel's numbers and play.
However, this thing about 28 playoff games is pretty effing misleading, considering that 12 of those games came at 3 minutes a game as a rookie.
You've got your numbers all wrong newsie. Allow me to assist you. Pavel averaged over 11 minutes a game in his rookie playoffs, not 3. I'm not sure where you're getting 28 games from. Pavel has played in 39 career postseason games now, and has gone 23 straight without a goal. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:17 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by sarcastro
Lang has produced in the last 2 postseasons. If Datsyuk is going to disappear in the playoffs, and the Wings can get a BIG return on him this summer, it is worth looking into.

I emphasize the word BIG. They should not trade him unless they get a huge offer which includes help for next season.

Lang only started producing when Stevie went into a higher gear. Great players make other players around them better. Stevie has this effect on anyone who plays with him. I was not down on Lang earlier, but he certainly does not have the "Stevie Effect" on other people. He needs a guy like Yzerman to get to the highest level of his game. It's good that he can get to another level, but let's be fair.


You also downplay the importance of the contributions that got us here. Do you think we'd be the first seed without the work from Datsyuk or Zetterberg. They sure helped get this team into the playoffs, and if we had to rely on Lang to get us here, I don't think we'd be having this convo. Dats is 27-28, $3.8 million. Lang is in his mid-30's and $3.6 million (after the rollback). I know who I would rather keep. Once he is healthy and then a No Show for the playoffs, I'd see what was available And only then. You just don't give away this kind of talent for nothing.

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04-27-2006, 09:18 AM
  #41
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<-------------- tied for highest +- on the team.

Bertuzzi blows. I would boo him if he wore the Wheel.

Doan is not leaving Phoenix. He is the only good thing about that organization.

Datsyuk for Havlat would not solve Ottawa's cap woes.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:20 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
All good points, DJ.

But, I dont see Havlat as an option if the Sens are looking to cut payroll. They cant take Datsyuks near $4 million next season.

I am holding off all of my judgement on Datsyuk until the playoffs are over. He looked pretty good in the OT last game, and I am REALLY hoping he can maintain that level. He has to.
Havlat makes 2.6M and is looking to double that in a new contract. That's where it could save a little money for Ottawa.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:23 AM
  #43
Higgy4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu
Lang only started producing when Stevie went into a higher gear. Great players make other players around them better. Stevie has this effect on anyone who plays with him. I was not down on Lang earlier, but he certainly does not have the "Stevie Effect" on other people. He needs a guy like Yzerman to get to the highest level of his game. It's good that he can get to another level, but let's be fair.


You also downplay the importance of the contributions that got us here. Do you think we'd be the first seed without the work from Datsyuk or Zetterberg. They sure helped get this team into the playoffs, and if we had to rely on Lang to get us here, I don't think we'd be having this convo. Dats is 27-28, $3.8 million. Lang is in his mid-30's and $3.6 million (after the rollback). I know who I would rather keep. Once he is healthy and then a No Show for the playoffs, I'd see what was available And only then. You just don't give away this kind of talent for nothing.
I dont think Lang is riding anyones coattails here. That whole line has been playing pretty well for over a month now.

Lang was the Wings best forward in the 03/04 playoffs, and it wasnt even a debate. Not to mention he played with a broken hand.

And he has been solid thus far in these playoffs. Still waiting for some numbers to pop up on the scoresheet, but he and his line have created space and chances for themselves.

I am not saying that I would keep Lang over Datsyuk. I am not saying that at all. But....Lang has shown he can elevate his play when the weather gets warm atleast.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:25 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Winger98
It's not a question of either/or, it's a question of being in a position to make a move. I think Lang could do the same thing we can rightfully expect Datsyuk to do: produce solid regular season numbers with top-line minutes. Would we get much for Lang on the open market? I doubt it, but we could get something decent for Datsyuk and losing either would arguably not be that big of a blow to the team. And after next season, the other is quite possibly gone anyway.

And I think hoping for a superstar-for-superstar trade is just another way of saying you wouldn't trade him, because it's so unlikely to happen. The problem is, though, it's not worth having a superstar if he doesn't step up in the playoffs. It's great to get to the postseason, but it's a useless trip if you're not there long enough to get out of your car.

I wouldn't mind if Datsyuk stepped up and made these conversations moot, either.

I understand that, and agree. However a lot of you guys use different standards for players. Our geezers spend half the season nursing their groins back to health, and they got a free pass. It was the kids that made and kept this team a contender while the old farts warmed up. Then one of the kids gets an injury, and he is expected to step in and carry the team his first shift on the ice?

If Dats wasn't injured right before the playoffs, and was doing zilch, sure... we'd all scratch our heads and wonder what was up. And scream bloody trade. Hey, wasn't there a time when Yzerman couldn't carry the load either in the playoffs, and well... you know who... had to step up? Not that even that was appreciated.

Let the guy get back to 100% before you castrate him!

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04-27-2006, 09:28 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
Bertuzzi blows. I would boo him if he wore the Wheel.

Doan is not leaving Phoenix. He is the only good thing about that organization.

Datsyuk for Havlat would not solve Ottawa's cap woes.
Bert did something stupid. So have other hockey players (Heatley to name one). Bert is hated. We've traded for hated players before (Chelios, anyone?) The fact is he would help... and Datsyuk would probably be the best offer.

And I think you're mistaken about Doan. I think offering Dats would definitely get the Yotes listening.

Even if those two are unavailable there are other options. I'd take Drury + from the Sabres, and I'm sure they'd jump at that.

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Old
04-27-2006, 09:31 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Higgy4
I dont think Lang is riding anyones coattails here. That whole line has been playing pretty well for over a month now.

Lang was the Wings best forward in the 03/04 playoffs, and it wasnt even a debate. Not to mention he played with a broken hand.

And he has been solid thus far in these playoffs. Still waiting for some numbers to pop up on the scoresheet, but he and his line have created space and chances for themselves.

I am not saying that I would keep Lang over Datsyuk. I am not saying that at all. But....Lang has shown he can elevate his play when the weather gets warm atleast.

Lang was our best forward in the last playoff run. I think he had Shanny on his Wing then?? Not the point though. We all wondered what happened to that guy this season.

Here is the issue. After Stevie went down in Game 3, that line did not seem to have as much jump. Zetterberg's line and our 4th line again seemed to be the most able to generate opportunities.

What I am afraid will happen, not what I want to happen, is w/o Stevie tonight (assuming he is out), Lang and Williams just don't cut it. Lang has to have some top guys to really be effective. It's just how he is. Stevie was the kind of player though who could do it himself or drag everyone up around him to a higher level. I never did expect Lang to be an Yzerman, but I have no trouble seeing how these guys can be used in a game.

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04-27-2006, 10:14 AM
  #47
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No matter how many points Datsyuk puts up, I still believe Zetterberg is the more important player...he's proving that in this series for sure. However, you can't just throw Pavel out after only 2 games in this series. Let this play out before we go overboard. This is very typical of our fanbase to run someone out of town before the matter at hand has played itself out. If the Wings are out in 5 and Dats doesn't get a single point...I'll be on his case but I don't think you trade him unless you can get a great package in return.

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04-27-2006, 10:20 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interminded
If it was a good trade, I would trade him, of course.

But first off, that has nothing to do with his recent play.
Any trade that would make the Wings better, is a trade to be considered.

However, I can't think of a possible trade that would give the Wings more value than Pavel Datsyuk does.
A trade for Marty Turco is hilarious. Give away one of the best playmakers in the NHL for a goalie like Turco ?
No way in hell ! If it would be a goalie, than Brodeur. Nothing less.
lol.

I'm sure the Devils would jump all over that one.

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04-27-2006, 10:31 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I think too many Wings fans have been spoiled by Lidstrom over the years and expect every defenseman to play flawless hockey. Time to get real, folks. Mortal defensemen make mistakes. Schneider is only human. So yeah, he makes weak turn-around passes across the zone to nobody in particular. And he also gets out of position and takes careless penalties. But it's not like the guy can't play D at all. For the most part he gives us 25 minutes a game of mostly solid play. Lighten up already, at least Matt is showing up. He's only -1, not -4 like some of our other D (*cough* Lidstrom / Lilja *cough*).
/rant off

.
Nice rant.
Too bad you missed the part about a defenseman's main job being defense.

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04-27-2006, 10:33 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi
Nice try...no way does Datsyuk get traded for the #2 pick. Washington, which is the team I'd like to trade him to, has the #4 pick, but they probably won't trade that high a pick(Top 4 players are can't miss prospects, and Datsyuk is FA after next year, with a history of jacking up contract demands). Anyewho, Datsyuk and Alex Ovechkin played well together in Russia, so from a regular season standpoint, the Caps might be interested(Although I dunno what the Wings would want back)
I traded Dats yesterday in a 2 round mock for pretty much that exact package.

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