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Is Elias the best LW of the last 30 years?

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Old
05-01-2006, 04:48 AM
  #26
Rez
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Give Henrik Zetterberg some time. He'll be one of the best.

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05-01-2006, 05:03 AM
  #27
alanschu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire11
I think Glenn Anderson was a RW
Glen spent a fair bit of time playing LW with Gretzky and Kurri.

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05-01-2006, 06:03 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nomoment
Give Henrik Zetterberg some time. He'll be one of the best.
He's a natural center though.

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05-01-2006, 07:35 AM
  #29
Peter25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Unfortunately, without testing their skills against the best competiton in the world, no case can be made for those Russians. Krutov came over and failed miserably so, I would count him out of this discussion.
Oh, come on!

Kharlamov was clearly the best left winger in the world in the 70's and Krutov was the best left winger in the world in the 80's. There was not a left winger in the NHL nearly as good as them at that time.

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05-01-2006, 07:38 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25
Oh, come on!

Kharlamov was clearly the best left winger in the world in the 70's and Krutov was the best left winger in the world in the 80's. There was not a left winger in the NHL nearly as good as them at that time.
And your evidence is....?

There were probably 20 NHL left wingers that could have dominated the AHL-calibre competition that Kharlamov and Krutov faced on a daily basis.

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05-01-2006, 07:39 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu
Glen spent a fair bit of time playing LW with Gretzky and Kurri.
Glen played LW but, I don't recall much of it being with Gretzky and Kurri. Usually that was Semenko or Tikkanen.

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05-01-2006, 08:05 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Hmmm, reckoning opens another thread in which he touts one of the players he selected in the all-time draft. Although he has assembled a pretty darn good team thus far....

First, let me preface this by saying I think Elias is the best all-round LW in the game today. Not only is he one of the top offensive players in the NHL, but he brings a strong defensive presence. He has shed the reputation for volatility, and he's a clutch playoff performer. On a year-in, year-out basis, he's likely been the left winger of the decade. If he continues to play at this level, he will one day be an HHOFer.

But No. 1 over the last 30 years? No. Not yet. And frankly, I don't see him surpassing Gainey, who may be the best defensive player ever, or Shanahan, who was such a dominant all-round LW for many years. I wouldn't rate him ahead of Goulet, Robitaille or Shutt, either, at least not yet. Where does Tkachuk rank on your list?

I do find it interesting that you have Tonelli ahead of Gillies, even though Gillies is the one who snuck into the HHOF, and that you have Propp rated No. 2. Poor Brian Propp. Such a quality playoff producer, yet 0-5 in the Stanley Cup final.
I LOVE YOUR ANSWER..and it's true.."Not yet".

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05-01-2006, 09:19 AM
  #33
BM67
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Looking at this years numbers for a few of the players mentioned, and some other top LWs from this year.

Scoring per 60 minutes TOI

Player - GP - ES Pts - ES TOI - ESP/60
Shanahan - 82 - 53 - 1,014:16 - 3.135
Gagne - 72 - 51 - 1,002:10 - 3.053
Heatley - 82 - 56 - 1,136:38 - 2.956
Elias - 38 - 24 - 516:03 - 2.790
Ovechkin - 81 - 51 - 1,140:57 - 2.682
Kovalchuk - 78 - 41 - 1,089:27 - 2.258
Naslund - 81 - 37 - 1,033:51 - 2.147

Player - GP - PP Pts - PP TOI - PPP/60
Elias - 38 - 21 - 175:53 - 7.164
Ovechkin - 81 - 52 - 544:33 - 5.730
Naslund - 81 - 42 -453:57 - 5.551
Heatley - 82 - 43 - 470:39 - 5.482
Kovalchuk - 78 - 56 - 643:44 - 5.220
Shanahan - 82 - 28 - 335:04 - 5.014
Gagne - 72 - 23 - 344:43 - 4.003

Player - GP - SH Pts - SH TOI - SHP/60
Kovalchuk - 78 - 1 - 12:27 - 4.819
Ovechkin - 81 - 3 - 65:52 - 2.733
Gagne - 72 - 5 - 148:28 - 2.021
Heatley - 82 - 4 - 127:10 - 1.887
Elias - 38 - 0 - 13:38 - 0
Shanahan - 82 - 0 - 10:53 - 0
Naslund - 81 - 0 -8:38 - 0

Elias' PK time from 04 is more reflective of normal, he already has 2:27 SH TOI in 4 games in the playoffs
Elias 04 - 82 - 4 - 134:35 - 1.783

Elias doesn't get the point totals of some others simply because he doesn't get the same ice-time. He has never had an average TOI of even 19 minutes a game, and the Devils are almost always bottom of the league in PP time, having the fewest PPs in the league 4 of the 5 years Elias was their leading scorer.

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Old
05-01-2006, 11:00 AM
  #34
timmy12
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Give me Kevin Stevens in his prime. He could score with the best of them, and was a physical SOB..... Of course his prime was only about 4 years.

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05-01-2006, 11:14 AM
  #35
Pantokrator
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I say wait five years and ask again then. Then I might put him as top LW over tha last 30 years if he keeps on playing like he is now.

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05-01-2006, 11:18 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom_17
Is this thread a joke?
That's the first thing that popped into my head.

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Old
05-02-2006, 01:24 AM
  #37
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Reck, don't let the toolboxes get you down. It's good food for thought.

My answer is that I can't see Elias playing twenty or thirty years ago. If he came up in 1977 instead of 1997, he would be a remarkably different player. Instinctively, I think he's had too few seasons at a star level to rank among the all-time greats.

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Old
05-02-2006, 10:02 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
And your evidence is....?

There were probably 20 NHL left wingers that could have dominated the AHL-calibre competition that Kharlamov and Krutov faced on a daily basis.
Evidence: Kharlamov and Krutov regularly schooled Canada's best in international competitions.

And where's your evidence that they faced AHL calibre competition on a daily basis? In the 70s and 80s the Soviet League was pretty much on par with the NHL.

Many Soviet League teams played various NHL teams in matches that started in 1975 and ended in 1991. The USSR won 57 of these games and the NHL won 41; while 10 games finished in a tie. The Central Red Army was always the Soviet's best club and won a majority of these matches for them against the NHL. However, if you take them out of the picture and only include games played by the other Soviet teams (Dynamo, Wings, Spartak, Riga, Khimik, SKA and Sokol) versus the NHL, you will find things a lot closer. The NHL had 33 wins, USSR had 31 wins, and there were 8 ties.
http://www.geocities.com/canadavsrussia/stats.html

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Old
05-02-2006, 10:19 PM
  #39
Bobby Orr's Knees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
And your evidence is....?

There were probably 20 NHL left wingers that could have dominated the AHL-calibre competition that Kharlamov and Krutov faced on a daily basis.
You must be joking. Kharlamov was one of the best players I've ever seen. He was absolutely phenomenal. Possibly a top-5 forward of all time.

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05-02-2006, 10:35 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Orr's Knees
You must be joking. Kharlamov was one of the best players I've ever seen. He was absolutely phenomenal. Possibly a top-5 forward of all time.
Just out of curiosity how many times have you seen Kharlamov play?

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05-03-2006, 05:52 PM
  #41
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Luc Robitaille, the highest scoring left winger of all time. He played in the last 30 years right? I'd say he's better than elias

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05-05-2006, 08:13 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning

6. John Tonelli: Extremely underrated contributor to the Islander dynasty, brought them back almost singlehandedly against Pittsburgh in `82.
You're overrating Tonelli.

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05-05-2006, 08:20 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
The only list I would put Keith Tkachuk on is the most overrated players of all-time list.


I might be a bit biased as a Blues fan, but Tkachuk is not overrated. In fact he's certainly better than Tonelli and better than Gillies who's in the Hall of Fame, and certainly better than Tikkanen who you mentioned.

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05-05-2006, 08:26 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Orr's Knees
You must be joking. Kharlamov was one of the best players I've ever seen. He was absolutely phenomenal. Possibly a top-5 forward of all time.
And your evidence is...?

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05-05-2006, 08:28 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine
Evidence: Kharlamov and Krutov regularly schooled Canada's best in international competitions.

And where's your evidence that they faced AHL calibre competition on a daily basis? In the 70s and 80s the Soviet League was pretty much on par with the NHL.

Many Soviet League teams played various NHL teams in matches that started in 1975 and ended in 1991. The USSR won 57 of these games and the NHL won 41; while 10 games finished in a tie. The Central Red Army was always the Soviet's best club and won a majority of these matches for them against the NHL. However, if you take them out of the picture and only include games played by the other Soviet teams (Dynamo, Wings, Spartak, Riga, Khimik, SKA and Sokol) versus the NHL, you will find things a lot closer. The NHL had 33 wins, USSR had 31 wins, and there were 8 ties.
http://www.geocities.com/canadavsrussia/stats.html
Do you honestly believe NHL teams were at their best in these exhibition games? The Soviets wanted to win quite badly to prove their hockey was good. Many of the NHL players couldn't care less. That record is very misleading. The Soviet league was not on par with the NHL.

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Old
05-05-2006, 08:33 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Do you honestly believe NHL teams were at their best in these exhibition games? The Soviets wanted to win quite badly to prove their hockey was good. Many of the NHL players couldn't care less. That record is very misleading. The Soviet league was not on par with the NHL.
Very, VERY untrue.

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Old
05-05-2006, 08:44 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oljase
Very, VERY untrue.
"couldn't care Less". If that statement is true than Canadian hockey players are put in a very bad light. "couldn't care less" is a very feeble excuse for losing. Interestingly WHA teams did better against the Soviets. I guess they cared.

I do agree that the Soviet league was not on a par with the NHL. They had their best players packed on the Red Army & Wings whereas the NHL best players were dispersed among many teams.

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05-05-2006, 09:24 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesfan1981
You're overrating Tonelli.
No, I did that list from personal opinion, not scientifically. Looking at it more closely, I think I may have overrated Propp and underrated Goulet, but Tonelli desrves to be high on the list. I`d put him as the #5 Isle of the dynasty after Potvin, Trottier, Smith and Bossy.

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Old
05-06-2006, 02:06 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesfan1981


I might be a bit biased as a Blues fan, but Tkachuk is not overrated. In fact he's certainly better than Tonelli and better than Gillies who's in the Hall of Fame, and certainly better than Tikkanen who you mentioned.
Did you ever watch Tikannen play? Better yet, did you ever watch Tikannen play in the post-season? Five Cup rings. A key player on three Cup champions. In the most important hockey, what has Tkachuk done? Only performance that really stands out is the six goals vs. Anaheim in 1997.

I hope you're not just judging Tikannen on his short stint in St. Louis.

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Old
05-06-2006, 03:04 AM
  #50
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Saying Elias is the best LW of the last 30 years is like saying Dion Phaneuf is the best defenseman of the last 30 years.

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