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Old
05-02-2006, 01:08 PM
  #26
PredDave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason allison'fans
outsider here

i think jason Allison could fit the #1 center at nashville..not the fastest guys in the league but the man can setup his winger and make the power play look better for sure.
I totally agree! A "healthy" Jason Allison would be a great #1 center on a line with Kariya and Radulov! Wow!!

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05-02-2006, 01:21 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
Would you want a long term conctract with a player that has an ACL injury?
I assume that insurance would cover if he's on the IR.

If he's on the IR, there is no cap hit either.

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05-02-2006, 01:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dulzhok
I assume that insurance would cover if he's on the IR.

If he's on the IR, there is no cap hit either.
I guess you're right, I'd atleast like to see him skate though before I offered up a long term deal.

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05-03-2006, 07:58 AM
  #29
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Keeping Mason may not be up to us. Someone will probably offer this guy a starter role and a lot more dough. He looked good in the playoffs and there are many teams with worse in goal right now. I think he's gone.

Markov wasn't worth what we payed and Witt brings more for less money.

I'd let Eaton go and allow Weber to fill that spot. Klein will probably be up before next season's over too.

We need Zidlicky to stay but it'll cost a wheelbarrow of money. Sign him!

I know Erat has his detractors here but I thought he and Kariya were our only consistent offensive threats.

Keep Sillinger and let Johnson go.

Keep Fiddler & Smithson around as fill-ins. They're steady and versatile.

Let Perrault go, good for faceoffs and a goal near the net but that's about it.

Keep Legwand, he was injured much of this season but showed flashes (once again) with Kariya out there.

Upshall's here to stay and Walker's role is diminished or he's traded.

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05-03-2006, 09:25 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuithead
I know Erat has his detractors here but I thought he and Kariya were our only consistent offensive threats.
I forgot to mention Erat-- I have always been an Erat booster, but at the end of the regular season I would have considered him tradeable. But he was our second most dangerous player post-season and played much smarter. I think we need to keep him.

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05-03-2006, 10:14 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuithead
Keeping Mason may not be up to us. Someone will probably offer this guy a starter role and a lot more dough. He looked good in the playoffs and there are many teams with worse in goal right now. I think he's gone.
I agree that there will be other teams interested in Mason, but I don't think anyone is going to offer him an out-right starter positition. His best hope is that he can compete with another unproven #1 for the starters role. I don't think he'll get that much money... a million max, but I'm thinking more like 700-800K.

The thing is he's likely going to have a chance to be the starter with the Preds. They say Vokoun is 5-6 months away. It could easily be Mason's team the first half of the season. And there's no telling if Vokoun is going to come back in top form.

I think we can offer him an attractive opportunity here.
Quote:
Markov wasn't worth what we payed and Witt brings more for less money.
The money thing is up in the air right now. Both are UFAs. I'd offer both contracts at 1.75-2 million, 2 or 3 years. I'd rather have Markov personally, but he's a bit of loose cannon in terms of behavoir (which is why he's been traded so much). But Witt's penalties are a major cause for concern.

Quote:
I'd let Eaton go and allow Weber to fill that spot. Klein will probably be up before next season's over too.
I'd like to see Eaton in a lesser role, but I don't think we should let our depth walk... especially good, cheap depth. If it becomes apparent that he's absolutely not needed mid-way through the season, I'm sure we can trade him.

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05-03-2006, 11:55 AM
  #32
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Trotz interview on 104.5 today

I didn't hear the interview today, but this was a poster's summary on the other board.....so take it for what it is worth...thought there was some interesting nuggets in there esp regarding signing Markov, Eaton and Zids, and Kariya's thoughts on a high end center acquisition......

Quote:
Coach Trotz thoughts on 104.5:

---He felt like he had a death in the family the way the playoffs ended.

---Preds demise was #1) Penalties!!! Untimely penaties that put us in the 5 on 3 wayy too many times.

---Not enough players rising to the occasion and stepping up, credit San Jose for doing this.

---We have to learn from our failures as Detroit did prior to the success they have had.

---It hurt with players coming off injuries and not getting up to speed in time.

---Mason did the job expected of him and picked up his game to another level despite a couple softies in San Jose. Vokoun playing, he said we'll never know and it's over with.

---Had to use the cards we had dealt and they were not good enough.

---will try to resign Eaton, Markov and resign Zids

---Try to keep our core together

---May have to start season without Vokoun and Leggy

---Vokoun out 6-9 months

---Like to have a high end centerman w/Kariya

---Had a meeting with Kariya yesterday and Paul said he doesn't have to have a high-end forward with him to be better. He himself can make it happen with other forwards.

---Trotz said Paul was one that raised his game for the playoffs.

---Trotz was all for the Wings faultering....LOL!!!

---He will re-evaluate all asst. coaches and system this off season

--We're building playoff expierience

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Old
05-03-2006, 12:06 PM
  #33
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1. Resign Zidlicky. The powerplay is deadly with that guy.

2. Attempt to resign Markov, but dont overpay for a crash and bang guy with the injury bug.

3. Resign Witt. He'll be cheaper than Markov, teach him to stay out of the box. Honestly, even with all the penalties and falling down, it was alot tougher for the opponents to camp out in front of the net with this guy around.

4. Attempt to resign Eaton. Dont overpay. He's steady, but easily replaceable, and young D-men are ready.

5. Sign one of Perrault or Sillinger. I wouldnt be crushed if either or both left though.

6. Go hard after a bonafide #1 center. Whether we hit UFA, or make a trade, or whatever. That, IMHO, is the missing piece.

7. Try to get bigger along the wings. Its incredibly frustrating to try and play dump and chase vs bigger, meaner teams.

8. Let go: Mason, Finley, Greg Johnson, Haydar, Gamache, Segal, Pivko go. None are irreplaceable.

9. Lock up Hartnell, Hamhuis, Tootoo, and Legwand long term. The first two need no explaination. Leggy - we're just better when he's in the lineup. Tootoo is the pest that every team needs.

10. Try to sign Hall and Erat to contracts, but dont overpay. Hall looks like tarzan, plays like Jane. Erat has flaws in his game and we're loaded on the wings. Although I think Erat is a year or two away from being a monster contributor.

11. Sign Smithson or Fiddler. Dont overpay. If both want to come back and are cheap, sign them both.

12. Sign a backup goaltender. Mason will go looking for a starters job, Rinne needs more seasoning. I think he could be an effective backup, but he'd be better off with the playing time in Milwaukee.

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Old
05-03-2006, 12:22 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
2. I'd agree with that, though I was impressed with what Legwand was able to do on a bum knee. I wouldn't mind seeing an Arnott or even a Brendan Morrison here.
What would you be willing to part with for Morrison? My guess is that the Canucks will not trade him unless they are able to get a quality center in return or acquire one elsewhere. What's Legwand's status? Could he be moved?

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05-03-2006, 12:23 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
We need to upgrade Scott Walker, we need a larger version, someone without the injuries. A true playmaking powerforward.
That sounds a lot like Todd Bertuzzi, especially the playmaking part over the last couple seasons...

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05-03-2006, 12:45 PM
  #36
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I'm definitely surprised that Witt's name isn't on the resign list. I guess most of us were right when we said we absolutely blew a first round pick on the guy...

There will be tons of goalie's available this year. Cloutier, Aebischer, Noranen, Biron, Gerber, Giguere, Nabokov, Raycroft, probably Robert Esche......Those are just a few names of guys that could probably be had relatively easy (not saying cheaply, just easily ).

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Old
05-03-2006, 02:35 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I'm definitely surprised that Witt's name isn't on the resign list. I guess most of us were right when we said we absolutely blew a first round pick on the guy...
I don't think we can make the assumption that if his name wasn't mentioned [or recorded by the poster, who by the way is not one of the "stars" of the other board] that a particular player is not on the true "re-sign list."

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05-03-2006, 03:23 PM
  #38
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No, I wouldn't put any significance in that. I'm sure Trotz was talking spontaneously and not sending any messages, etc.

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05-03-2006, 03:36 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
I don't think we can make the assumption that if his name wasn't mentioned [or recorded by the poster, who by the way is not one of the "stars" of the other board] that a particular player is not on the true "re-sign list."
Excellent because I definitely missed the interview, and I think it would be a mistake to not at least consider resigning the guy. If we slotted him as a no.4 guy, instead of a no. 2, I think we would see his game improve quite a bit.

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05-10-2006, 09:23 AM
  #40
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think what Poile/Shero have to determine regarding Witt is whether his propensity for taking penalties correctable or not.

That is, what is the main reason[s] that he is taking all those penalties:

-because he is too slow for the new NHL and does he keep getting beat because of lack of foot speed, leading to hooking and grabbing?
-because of primarily bad habits from playing hook and grab hockey his whole career, and he just hasn't adjusted yet?
-because he takes primarily undisiplined penalties of the retaliatory nature?
-because of his reputation as being borderline dirty at times, does he always lose the benefit of the doubt?
-because of trying too do to much....is he playing a 1st line role, where he is more suited for a 2nd line role?
-because simply he is playing a physical game and that is the nature of a physical defenseman in that you have to accept the propensity for penalties in that type of role?

It is probably a combo of the above.

The next question....is it correctable?

I have no doubt that right from training camp there will be a HUGE emphasis in not taking penalties such as what Lavoilette did in Carolina.....such as the team skating laps in practice for each penalty above 4 in previous game and the individual who took the penalty taking extra laps......basically making everybody more accounatable to everybody else, etc.

The last question.....do you think he is a good mentor to our young defensmen?

Those are the questions Poile and Shero should be asking themselves right now.....

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05-10-2006, 09:48 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
I have no doubt that right from training camp there will be a HUGE emphasis in not taking penalties such as what Lavoilette did in Carolina.....such as the team skating laps in practice for each penalty above 4 in previous game and the individual who took the penalty taking extra laps......basically making everybody more accounatable to everybody else, etc.
This worries me because I think Trotz failed to do that this season. And with so much on the line, I'm concerned about either his failure to recognize the need for action on this front or his failure to get results from his team. Either way, the penalties were inexcusable, and the end blame rests solely on Trotz. I think he tried to pass the buck onto his players by getting them to 'own' their mistakes. But after 40 straight games of no progress, he should have reacted with a different plan. That he didn't is a real head scratcher.

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05-10-2006, 10:09 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
This worries me because I think Trotz failed to do that this season. And with so much on the line, I'm concerned about either his failure to recognize the need for action on this front or his failure to get results from his team. Either way, the penalties were inexcusable, and the end blame rests solely on Trotz. I think he tried to pass the buck onto his players by getting them to 'own' their mistakes. But after 40 straight games of no progress, he should have reacted with a different plan. That he didn't is a real head scratcher.
There has to be creative ways to make players accountable to eachother for penalties and make it a bedrock principal right out of training camp.....like the example I mentioned in Carolina.....

Some other suggestions:

-define "lazy penalties," then review each game on tape.....keep a scoreboard in the locker room to post the number after each game.

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05-10-2006, 11:15 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
There has to be creative ways to make players accountable to eachother for penalties and make it a bedrock principal right out of training camp.....like the example I mentioned in Carolina.....

Some other suggestions:

-define "lazy penalties," then review each game on tape.....keep a scoreboard in the locker room to post the number after each game.
Those are all suggestions that Trotz should consider.

I've mentioned this before, but a very harsh way to do it is to bench someone. If things aren't getting better by November of next year, I have no problems with Trotz going up to our players and saying, "commit one more lazy penalty and you are out for the rest of the game." There will be some tentative times as this adjustment is forced onto the players. They'll probably be a little unsure of themselves at first, but it will go away as players like Kariya and Sullivan understand that they don't have to hook a player skating with normal speed through the neutral zone.

It's a desperate attempt to get players to play smart. But if we haven't fixed things 10-15 games into the season, it will be desperate times indeed.

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05-10-2006, 11:27 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Those are all suggestions that Trotz should consider.

I've mentioned this before, but a very harsh way to do it is to bench someone. If things aren't getting better by November of next year, I have no problems with Trotz going up to our players and saying, "commit one more lazy penalty and you are out for the rest of the game." There will be some tentative times as this adjustment is forced onto the players. They'll probably be a little unsure of themselves at first, but it will go away as players like Kariya and Sullivan understand that they don't have to hook a player skating with normal speed through the neutral zone.

It's a desperate attempt to get players to play smart. But if we haven't fixed things 10-15 games into the season, it will be desperate times indeed.
He said during the year that if he wasn't in a manpower crunch he would have benched Hartnell....hard to tell if this was blowing smoke or not.

Do the CBA rules preclude you from giving perks as incentive such as:
-free in room movies on road trips
-free room servce
-extra meal money

He did the "gold helmet" thing for shoot out king, which I thought was creative and the players appeared to love it.

What about a "pink" jersey for the lazy penalty king.......sitting at the back of the bus and plane for that guy.......what about making him wear a pink jock, etc.
-I know it is a fine line between making the players hate the coach versus making them be accountable to each other, but it is Trotz's job to find that happy medium to get the desired result....not "leaving it up to the guys in the room......"

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05-10-2006, 11:48 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
He said during the year that if he wasn't in a manpower crunch he would have benched Hartnell....hard to tell if this was blowing smoke or not.
I'll call his bluff on this one. There was never a point during this past season where we would have been crippled substantially by the loss of Hartnell for a few games. Yeah, we may have not been as good without him, but sometimes you have to tear the band-aid right off as opposed to a slow pull that lasts the entire season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
Do the CBA rules preclude you from giving perks as incentive such as:
-free in room movies on road trips
-free room servce
-extra meal money

He did the "gold helmet" thing for shoot out king, which I thought was creative and the players appeared to love it.

What about a "pink" jersey for the lazy penalty king.......sitting at the back of the bus and plane for that guy.......what about making him wear a pink jock, etc.
-I know it is a fine line between making the players hate the coach versus making them be accountable to each other, but it is Trotz's job to find that happy medium to get the desired result....not "leaving it up to the guys in the room......"
I would imagine that NHLPA might not be a big fan of some of this, but I'd love to see it implemented. Players that commit lazy penalties need to be treated as outcasts by the rest of the team. There are very few desires within a hockey player that are stronger than the desire to be a accepted as a part of the team. If the leaders of the clubhouse wanted, they could push the lazy penalties completely out.

I think the pink jersey idea is a great one. I think they should go a step further and put frills and lace all over it as well. The name on the back should be 'Nancy.' I think Trotz would get in trouble if he did this. But if the group of veterans gets together and makes this happen, it can work and the NHLPA would be less likely to step in. But that group (Sullivan, Kariya, Timonen, Walker) was also the most guilty of lazy penalties. So they are going to have to be accountable as well.

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05-10-2006, 01:16 PM
  #46
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The problem with Trotz "punishing" certain players, either by benching or embarassment, is that it would be the same players every time, while Timonen, Sullivan, Kariya(three of the guiltiest of 'lazy' penalties on the team) would get away scott-free.

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05-10-2006, 06:22 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
The problem with Trotz "punishing" certain players, either by benching or embarassment, is that it would be the same players every time, while Timonen, Sullivan, Kariya(three of the guiltiest of 'lazy' penalties on the team) would get away scott-free.
When you stratify our players based not just on minor penalties, but on minor penatlies per game played, it is interesting how it shakes out:

-a better ranking would be minors per 15 minute TOI, but I didn't have the data for that.....

Original Rank in Minors...Name..GP..PIMs...Minors...Minor/GP Ratio....New Rank by Ratio

1 BRENDAN WITT NSH D ......75 209 67 .890.....1
21 SHEA WEBER NSH D ........28 42 16 .571.....2
17 SCOTT WALKER NSH R ...33 36 18 .545....3
8 DANNY MARKOV NSH D .....58 62 31 .534.....4
14 VERNON FIDDLER NSH C ..40 42 21 .525.....5
2 MAREK ZIDLICKY NSH D ....67 .82 41 .500......6
19 SCOTT NICHOL NSH C ....34 79 17 .500....7
3 MARTIN ERAT NSH L ........80 76 38 .475....8
4 SCOTT HARTNELL NSH L ...81 101 38 .469.....9
6 RYAN SUTER NSH D ..........71 66 33 .464....10
23 JORDIN TOOTOO NSH R ....34 55 15 .441....11
5 DAN HAMHUIS NSH D ........82 70 35 .426....12
10 JERRED SMITHSON NSH C 66 54 27 .409....13
7 KIMMO TIMONEN NSH D ....79 74 32 .405....14
18 DAVID LEGWAND NSH C ..44 34 17 .386...15
9 DARCY HORDICHUK NSH L ..74 163 29 .392...16
11 STEVE SULLIVAN NSH R ..69 50 25 .362....17
20 SCOTTIE UPSHALL NSH R 48 34 17 .354....18
13 MARK EATON NSH D .......69 44 22 .318....19
12 MIKE SILLINGER NSH C ....79 63 24 .304....20
15 ADAM HALL NSH R .........75 40 20 .266....21
16 PAUL KARIYA NSH L .......82 40 20 .243...22
22 YANIC PERREAULT NSH C 69 30 15 .217...23
24 GREG JOHNSON NSH C ....68 10 5 .073...24

______

Observations:

For the most part.....our physical players are generally higher, and our softer players are generally lower, as you would expect.

But when you look a little closer you see:
- Eaton and Timonen are our least penalized dmen.
-Witt is in a class all his own
-Kariya and Sully are our among our least penalized wingers.
-Kariya's penalties came almost all at the beginning of the year, after that he pretty much quit hooking.
-Upshall surprisingly has a low penalty ratio for as gritty as he plays.
-Sillinger is fairly low as well.
-Hordy is lower on the list than I thought he would be, but probably alot due to playing only 4-6 minutes per game.
-Johnson has a very low ratio for our primary checking line center.
-Walker is surprisingly high.
-Perreault is just plain soft.
Zidlicky is very high for the type of game he plays....he is probably the guiltiest of the "lazy penalties"...followed by Erat and Hartnell.

So bottom line, I would argue that Timonen, Kariya, and Sullivan should not be considered the prime culprits of the lazy penalty syndrome

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05-10-2006, 06:27 PM
  #48
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If I was the GM of the Preds, I would trade Hamhuis and Sullivan to the Red Wings for Andreas Lilja and a 9th round pick

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05-10-2006, 06:33 PM
  #49
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Maybe it's the type of penalties that drove me crazy...though, now that you mention it, Kariya did seem to get better as time went on.

I wouldn't say Zids is guilty of many "lazy" penalties. He's guilty of, "Oh fudge, I'm caught, and there goes my guy...better do something" penalties.

Timonen seemed to be penalized a lot more than that, and it was almost all holding calls.

Oh well, it's a team problem...and I'd like to see more done than just grumbling to the media this year.

I just need to see a lot of things addressed this year that were chronic problems last year. I need to see some adaption and adjustment when things aren't working. We'll never know how much of a hot seat Trotz is on or if he's on one at all, or if the problem lies in lockerroom leadership from the players themselves. It's been over a week, and I still have a bad taste in my mouth with the way things went down, but like any good fan, I'm hopeful\optimistic for next season...and more than any "we need this guy" or "this guy needs to be gone," I'd like to see more of a "you give us x, we'll give you y, you give us y, we'll give you z" than "you give us x, we'll give you y. you give us y, we'll give you some more y"

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05-10-2006, 06:44 PM
  #50
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Zidlicky took penalties that you pretty much had to take a lot of the times. Whether that was due to his mistake, or Suters, is a bit different...but most of his penalities were not lazy.

I think for the physical guys, you have to see how many of the minors were coincidental...I know Weber took a lot of those, so those minors per game could be skewed a bit. It would be interesting to see how many power plays another team drew off a certain player per game.

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