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The ones that got away: Stewart, Wishart and Mitera

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06-25-2006, 08:26 AM
  #1
plafleur10
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The ones that got away: Stewart, Wishart and Mitera

While everyone seems to agree the Habs did OK in the first three rouns thanks to agood second rounder in Maxwell and a good 3rd rounder in White (both of which provide depth which has been lacking at the centerr position),they could not resist the temptation to again go for a "reach" in the first round in Fischer.

Drafts should be judged by who you got, but they are also often judged by who you allowed to get away (ex: Simon Gagné vs. Eric Chouinard, Jason Ward vs. Marian Hossa (ouch!) and Andrei Kostsisnyn vs Jeff Carter,Ryan Getzlaf and aslew of others).

In this case, by trading down from 16th to 20th, Habs let go three prospects that seemed to really fit their needs:

1) another power forward Chris Stewart to complement Latendresse and once and for all try to shed our small team image;
2) huge defensemen with good skating abilities (a rare combo) in Wishart and Mitera;
3) yes they got an extra 2nd rounder in the exercize, but what they did with it (Matthieu Carle) hardly thrills anybody and appears to be another reach/longshot;
4)how well Fischer develops vs. Wisaht, Stewart and Mitera will be what makeds this draft or not for the Habs...

I am not knowledgeable enough to know who we allowed to slip by when we reached for Carle with our 2nd 2nd rounder, but on the face of it we could just have drafted White there and saved our 3rd and 4th rounder we had to subsequently trade to get him...


Last edited by plafleur10: 06-25-2006 at 08:32 AM. Reason: orthograph
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06-25-2006, 08:38 AM
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WE don't need forwards

don't you see our depth, and draft was crapshoot after 13th pick, din't you see that when canuks selected someone sloted to go in second round, normal draft I would be upset trading down but there are no game breakers here, and how could you already declare all those drafted ahead of fisher better, you should have more patience my friend, we are no scouts, and scouts had lot of different reading this draft anyways!!.

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06-25-2006, 08:42 AM
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Maxpac
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Wishart has close to zero abilitys with the puck, he's a player who's using his size to do what he wants, i don't think it'l translate to the NHL, Fisher is way more offensive then he is, Stewart will imo become a Mike Knuble type of player, a 2nd rated powerforward

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06-25-2006, 08:47 AM
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Pat
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I would've preferred Stewart. other than Latendress, Habs don't have another guy with power forward potential.
I hope Fischer doesn't turn out into a Hainsey/Wilikie
we'll just have to wait and see, I guess, but I'm not sold on Fischer at all. Habs could've made better.


Last edited by Pat: 06-25-2006 at 09:16 AM.
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06-25-2006, 09:02 AM
  #5
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You said it yourself... the draft was a complete crapshoot after pick number #10.

We should be happy that for the 2nd year in a row, the Habs mangaged to nab a player many beleived to be a mid-to late 1st round pick in Maxwell.

I'm a little mad they didn't draft Sagunetti, however... I personally think he's gonna be a great NHL defenceman... Andre Markov v2.0. But they could afford to draft a project player in Fisher, so they took the more total upside... understandble.

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06-25-2006, 09:17 AM
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Fisher looks like a project........

But once again I think that the Maxwell, Carle and White pick will be excellent picks for Habs future......

White was suppose to be a safe pick for NHL and a first rounder in many mock....The Habs trade up for get White in 3rd round, BG and Timmins done a fine job after the first round.......

The thing interesting about Fisher is the next school, the same than a guy name Johnson......If Fisher play with Erick Johnson it could really help Fisher progress in the future

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06-25-2006, 09:20 AM
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Habsaku
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I was very happy to see the Habs pass on Steward and Wishart. I thought they we're too overrated players with little hockey sense and offensive capabilities. I like the four picks personally.

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06-25-2006, 09:22 AM
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I'm happy overall with the draft and it is way to early to start complaining the damm draft was a day ago. Let's see in 4-5 years where things are.

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06-25-2006, 09:24 AM
  #9
fredez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
and Andrei Kostsisnyn vs Jeff Carter,Ryan Getzlaf and aslew of others).

Don't you think it's a bit early to bash the Kostitsyn (not that tough to spell really) pick? Andrei has shown a lot of promise this year and he was the only guy making things happen when the team went through a horrific slump.

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06-25-2006, 09:34 AM
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We will have to wait 3 years(5 for a real evaluation) to start getting some answers, but Fisher was in the top 10 in some attributes for the scouts. One of those attributes is determination. I completely dig this choice, he could end up being a Redden at the best and a very good stable 3-4 D at worst. Hes a wise kid.

Wyshart(Or anyone drafted in those position) = Fisher + Carle? no. Fisher could end up better on his own, and Carle could end up a great D as well.

+ 2 center man! great choice, we needed that depth, no big guy, but some speed and talent. Maxwell could end up a Top 6, but will need to work hard.

I don't think we can make a judgment on Andrei Kost yet as well, lets be patient, he had a long road because of his background. This year should be the year. Andrei is more talented than anyone drafted after, he just had more to go over and was drafted by the habs. He would have been playing for the flyers 2 years ago.

The only thing I don't understand is selecting a russian on the 5th round, why? don't we loose them sooner? The guy seems to be a sleeper very big D, we will need to rely on the scouts for this one.

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06-25-2006, 09:37 AM
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If AK wasn't making progress this year, you can bet he'd have been dealt,and pawned off to someone thinking an underrated gem has dropped in their lap.

Montreal could not afford to pass on AK's talent at the 10th spot,in the same way they couldn't pass on Komisarek and Price.

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06-25-2006, 09:38 AM
  #12
Teufelsdreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
I would've preferred Stewart. other than Latendress, Habs don't have another guy with power forward potential.
I hope Fischer doesn't turn out into a Hainsey/Wilikie
we'll just have to wait and see, I guess, but I'm not sold on Fischer at all. Habs could've made better.
You've seen Fischer? Of course not! The Habs scout who first recommended him is a high school coach in Minnesota who has seen just about all of the prospects from that area. The description of Fischer on TSN sounds very promising. Many posters on this site wish the Habs had another top 3 Dman who has the skills to play in the new NHL. Gainey knows this, and a lot of the Habs drafts were Dmen in the hope of filling this big hole in the team. And you want a 2nd-rate power forward instead?

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06-25-2006, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
While everyone seems to agree the Habs did OK in the first three rouns thanks to agood second rounder in Maxwell and a good 3rd rounder in White (both of which provide depth which has been lacking at the centerr position),they could not resist the temptation to again go for a "reach" in the first round in Fischer.

Drafts should be judged by who you got, but they are also often judged by who you allowed to get away (ex: Simon Gagné vs. Eric Chouinard, Jason Ward vs. Marian Hossa (ouch!) and Andrei Kostsisnyn vs Jeff Carter,Ryan Getzlaf and aslew of others).

In this case, by trading down from 16th to 20th, Habs let go three prospects that seemed to really fit their needs:

1) another power forward Chris Stewart to complement Latendresse and once and for all try to shed our small team image;
2) huge defensemen with good skating abilities (a rare combo) in Wishart and Mitera;
3) yes they got an extra 2nd rounder in the exercize, but what they did with it (Matthieu Carle) hardly thrills anybody and appears to be another reach/longshot;
4)how well Fischer develops vs. Wisaht, Stewart and Mitera will be what makeds this draft or not for the Habs...

I am not knowledgeable enough to know who we allowed to slip by when we reached for Carle with our 2nd 2nd rounder, but on the face of it we could just have drafted White there and saved our 3rd and 4th rounder we had to subsequently trade to get him...

Two things come to mind... First, how many times have you seen the other three guys play? Or maybe you just read about them?? I trust Timmins who spends a living watching the guys, scouting them, interviewing them, and I trust the many centrals who stated more than once than past the first 12 picks, it's hard to pick one prospect instead of another as they all have strenghts.

Second, how many times have you seen Kostsitsyn play in the NHL? Probably as much as I did. He is bound to make the team next year and, most importantly, still a calder candidate. So how can you claim he is a bust compared to Carter and Getzlaf????? Makes absolutely no sense. Coming on early doesn't make you better, far from that. These things take time!!

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06-25-2006, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel the great!
Wishart has close to zero abilitys with the puck, he's a player who's using his size to do what he wants, i don't think it'l translate to the NHL, Fisher is way more offensive then he is...
Well, you seem to be smarter than SJ's staff, then. If anything, Wishart is pretty decent at moving the puck and the knock on him is that he doesn't use his size the way he should. Now, I'm just as happy with Fischer as Wishart myself, doesn't matter to me. But it is a pet peeve of mine that Wishart gets knocked for things which just don't seem to fit his profile at all.

I bet Max is still on cloud-9 that San Jose traded up to get Wishart in the 1st and then again for McGinn in the 2nd round. I haven't looked on any of the other boards yet, but it will be fun to read his elation-filled posts.

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06-25-2006, 09:59 AM
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I do not think that Stewart, Mitera and Wishart "got away" from us. I happen to think that Timmins knew those guys would probably get picked in the 16-19 range before deciding to trade down, having made up his mind that Fischer was his guy. Our scouting staff was aiming on a defenceman, and if you're going to take one, why not try for one that has that special ability to create havoc in the offensive zone? Mitera and Wishart both have average puck skills and rather limited upside. I would have been disappointed with either of those two guys. Sure, Fischer is a project, but the Habs management must be confident that he's going to progress nicely with the Golden Gophers, playing alongside 2006 draftees like Okposo and Kessel, as well as Jack Johnson.

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06-25-2006, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
You've seen Fischer? Of course not! The Habs scout who first recommended him is a high school coach in Minnesota who has seen just about all of the prospects from that area. The description of Fischer on TSN sounds very promising. Many posters on this site wish the Habs had another top 3 Dman who has the skills to play in the new NHL. Gainey knows this, and a lot of the Habs drafts were Dmen in the hope of filling this big hole in the team. And you want a 2nd-rate power forward instead?
man, I must've pissed you off badly for you to post the same thing twice. I'm just hoping you don't have a gun and know where I live

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06-25-2006, 12:27 PM
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Genghis Keon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
2) huge defensemen with good skating abilities (a rare combo) in Wishart and Mitera;
Fischer's roughly the same height (6'3--Mitera's 6'3 and Wishart's 6'4.5) and presumably he's going to add some weight (he's pretty much rail thin right now). The kid's going to be 6'3, maybe 6'4 when he's done growing and should be over 200 pounds. He's skating is also said to be excellent, having both speed and agility, so he's a pretty much a huge defenseman with great skating abilities. Plus he's a right handed shot, unlike Wishart and Mitera, which is even more rare.

By all accounts, Fischer's offensive game and skillset far exceeds Wishart's and especially Mitera's. He was also the only defenseman Central Scouting ranked in their top 10 for Quickest Hands (amongst this year's North American draft class, but he's listed as "David Fisher"), so his hands are top notch. He also ranked top 10 in Quickest Feet, and Athleticism. From a tools standpoint, Miteral and Wishart don't compare to Fischer.

In the same survey, Central Scouting lists Fischer as one of the ten most dedicated North American prospects in this year's draft (they spell his name "Fisher" again, though. Is there any "David Fisher" in the draft?), the top 10 in Hardest Worker, and top 10 in Team Leader. Timmins called him a very competitive athlete, so when you take his dedication, hard work, leadership skills, and competitiveness into consideration, I doubt he'll be a Hainsey or a Wilkie.

Really the only thing Fischer doesn't have on his resume is a high level of competition. We know how Wishart did in the WHL and International competitions, and we know how Mitera did in the NCAA, but Fischer only played High School hockey, so he's the comparative wild card. We're not going to look back in ten years and kick ourselves for not drafting Wishart or Mitera--don't get me wrong, they're both most likely going to be very solid and serviceable defensemen who every team would love to have, but it's doubtful they'd ever amount to anything more--but we might be kicking ourselves if we drafted the safe Wishart or Mitera and Fischer proves to be a top pairing kind of guy with great intangibles. Since he only played High School hockey, Fischer could be a flop (we don't know how he'll do against stronger competition), but, with his tools, skillset, and intangibles, if he was more proven, there's no way he'd be available at 20.

Quote:
3) yes they got an extra 2nd rounder in the exercize, but what they did with it (Matthieu Carle) hardly thrills anybody and appears to be another reach/longshot;
The powerplay is very important in the new NHL, so even if his defensive game doesn't pick up, would it be possible to throw Carle out on the fourth line (as a defenseman, he can't play D, but he'd probably be serviceable as a winger) and use him basically as a power play specialist?

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06-25-2006, 12:34 PM
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With the quality of the picks in recent years I am willing to trust the staff in place.
Stop whining about every pick it just gets annoying. It's ok to question some of the picks I have no problem with that...but to cry like little girls is just sad.

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06-25-2006, 12:40 PM
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Stewart was the only one of those three i kind of liked.

I'm happy with the draft, we filled alot of holes that was lacking depth in our system. however with the picks we took we won't know anything about how GOOD this draft was for probably at least 3 years.

most of what we took are all projects.

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06-25-2006, 12:56 PM
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Im not sold at 100 % about Fischer , he looks like a really good D-man and Im sure he could become a top 4 d-man for us but what Ive heard about him called an '' idiot '' scares me a lot ... is it true or its just bull**** ?

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06-25-2006, 12:56 PM
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I think we did OK, definately not, as far as today is concerned, our best draft but pretty tough 'cause 2004 and 2005 were pretty good.

I don't think Wishart, Mitera, Sanguinetti and other d-men are the real questions marks here. I think we all agree that Giroux was too early to be picked at 16 but was it still too early at 20 now that we know that Philly took him at 22??? You all know that big debate I don't want to get into but Fischer will again need to blossom quickly and Giroux hit his peak soon 'cause we'll hear about it for years and years to come.....

But I Love with a capital L the Maxwell and White picks. I believe White has more upside than the Foligno, Clutterbuck and those types of player.

Habs management have some kind of nerves to NOT pick Geoffrion with all that talk about him being THE fit for our team. I would've picked him instead of Carle but I would've picked a lot of other players too. Carle will have to sell his stuff to me 'cause as of now, I don't like this pick very puck.

Valentenko and Cepek well will see. I have less problems with Cepek since he's a 7th rounder and may be a great guess since he was hurt and wasn't on the radar too much. But there was great potentiel players to be picked beside Valentenko. (Chaput, Juutilainen, Dudas, Walker, Flynn, Popov, Breault)

And I hope this will definately end the talk about that BPA theory. We had less d-men prospects than forwards, we picked 4 d-men 2 centers. Timmins went for needs this year.

I believe Fischer and Carle werent't the BPA at the time they were picked. Maxwell and White were....

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06-25-2006, 01:17 PM
  #22
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I wonder why we didnt pick Williams and then Geoffrion in 2nd round

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06-25-2006, 01:41 PM
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I wanted Chris Summers and admitt to knowing very little about Fischer. For the second year in a row, I was confussed about our 1st round pick - but I was silenced when I saw Price at rookie camp so I'm not habouring any bad sentiments towards this draft class untill I see it for myself.

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06-25-2006, 02:01 PM
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Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Pat
man, I must've pissed you off badly for you to post the same thing twice. I'm just hoping you don't have a gun and know where I live
I apologize for the double post (I'll delete one). The server was acting sluggishly and I didn't know whether it had taken up my first post. Nothing personal, I assure you.

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06-25-2006, 02:23 PM
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Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez
Don't you think it's a bit early to bash the Kostitsyn (not that tough to spell really) pick? Andrei has shown a lot of promise this year and he was the only guy making things happen when the team went through a horrific slump.
I wouldn't bash Kostitsyn as I would bash the scouting group. I don't believe 2003 was the year to take a guess, even though we see now that his ''health situation'' is not a concern at all, it was a concern at the time. He was at the time a high risk high reward pick but 2003 had an incredible crop of players and I believe a safer pick would've been more appropriate. And I'm not even talking about Carter 'cause he wasn't that hyped before the draft. In the other end Getzlaf was a little.

And that 2003 crop was probably one of the most NHL ready bunch of guys like we see right now those from that draft who are already playing in the NHL. So when some say that you never draft a player 'cause you'll never know what would be your needs in 4 or 5 years. Well in those cases, it didn't take that much time to see them in the Bigs. And that reason doesn't stand if you look at this year's draft 'cause since we're not supposed to draft by needs, Timmins and Co said directly that we're lacking good potentiel d-men but we all know that Fischer is a long-term project that will see in 4 or 5 years.....I guess some of you guys, based on that, do not really agree with Timmins....

Let's just say that a high risk high reward would've been more appropriate this year since this is not the greatest year ever so that's why Fischer pick is not that bad. But Giroux would've been another high pick-high reward.....

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