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Old
05-02-2006, 09:09 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larsmark
Rather Crawford atleast than Hitchcock.
I agree with that.

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05-02-2006, 09:13 PM
  #27
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Ken Hitchcock and his best friend Wayne Fleming - GO!
Terry Murray must stay. Head coach, maybe. IMO.

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05-02-2006, 09:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Lisenok
Ken Hitchcock and his best friend Wayne Fleming - GO!
Terry Murray must stay. Head coach, maybe. IMO.
trade Hitch for torterella and a 3rd

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05-02-2006, 09:19 PM
  #29
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Crawfrod's been around. Just another face of the same coin. Vancouver made deals at the deadline so they could make their push. So much for Crawford.

The Flyers didn't have the players to play with Buffalo. That said, they looked unwilling to compete tonight and the head coach needs to answer for it.

But when hockey is really boiled down to its essence, it's the players. Buffalo has a better roster, as does Jersey, Ottawa, and Carolina. No coach would change that.

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05-02-2006, 09:28 PM
  #30
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I actually feel for Hitch because at the post game news conference, you could see that he was crying. I think that this loss was probably the toughest because nobody came to play tonight and they bailed on him. Now, unless Snider and Clarke hold true to their word that they are going to hold players accountable, I think it's safe to say that tonight was probably Hitch's last night as a coach. Unbelievable how Hitch managed to coach this group of heartless and gutless competitors. Injuries or not, you'd figure someone would have stepped up to the plate to lead this team. Unfortunately, other than two good games from Forsberg, not one player stepped forward. To me, that's the most disheartening thing. Jester, you can say what you want, but not one player stepped forward this series. It was an embarassment and a shame for any Philadelphia fan to watch what took place tonight.

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05-02-2006, 09:30 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
I actually feel for Hitch because at the post game news conference, you could see that he was crying. I think that this loss was probably the toughest because nobody came to play tonight and they bailed on him. Now, unless Snider and Clarke hold true to their word that they are going to hold players accountable, I think it's safe to say that tonight was probably Hitch's last night as a coach. Unbelievable how Hitch managed to coach this group of heartless and gutless competitors. Injuries or not, you'd figure someone would have stepped up to the plate to lead this team. Unfortunately, other than two good games from Forsberg, not one player stepped forward. To me, that's the most disheartening thing. Jester, you can say what you want, but not one player stepped forward this series. It was an embarassment and a shame for any Philadelphia fan to watch what took place tonight.
This is probably the first time I've agreed with you in weeks, maybe months. I may not agree with Hitch's coaching philosophy but if he gets fired because his players didn't show up, that's a ****** deal.

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05-02-2006, 09:33 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyime
This is probably the first time I've agreed with you in weeks, maybe months. I may not agree with Hitch's coaching philosophy but if he gets fired because his players didn't show up, that's a ****** deal.
The players didn't show any heart, but I don't think they are buying into Hitchcocks philosphy anymore. So unfortunatley along with alot of players who should be gone, he must go as well.


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05-02-2006, 09:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyime
This is probably the first time I've agreed with you in weeks, maybe months. I may not agree with Hitch's coaching philosophy but if he gets fired because his players didn't show up, that's a ****** deal.
But whose fault is it that the players didn't show up? A lot of these guys have won before and most of our rookies have won before this year, outside of a player like Nedved, I don't think it's because the players are lazy or don't care.

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05-02-2006, 09:35 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
But whose fault is it that the players didn't show up?
It's the player's fault. This ain't junior high wrestling.

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05-02-2006, 09:38 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC
It's the player's fault. This ain't junior high wrestling.
I have trouble believing that considering that most of these players have a track record of showing up.

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05-02-2006, 09:41 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
But whose fault is it that the players didn't show up? A lot of these guys have won before and most of our rookies have won before this year, outside of a player like Nedved, I don't think it's because the players are lazy or don't care.
The players tuned Hitch out. Hey, I hate Hitch as a coach, but never, and I mean never do I ever want to see a coach get fired because the team tunes him out. They quit on him intentionally. Some on here would say other wise, but they quit on Hitch tonight. And I hate it. If the Flyers lost because they were outcoached by Lindy Ruff, then fine, I could see firing Hitch. However, to intentionally quit on the coach is absolutely appaling and disgusting. I honestly hope that in the coming days, Clarke starts throwing players under the bus and begins questioning their hearts and their intentions on being on this team.

Yeah, Hitch may have his flaws. He might rely on the veterans too much and he might be too rough on rookies and he might have a system that is outdated in today's NHL. However, you just don't up and quit on your coach and that's what these guys did. I'll say it before and I'll say it again. This reeks of what they did to Bill Barber. You just watch in the next couple of days and watch what happens with regards to players who will remain "anonymous" and will complain about the way Hitch was.

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05-02-2006, 09:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
The players didn't show any heart, but I don't think they are buying into Hitchcocks philosphy anymore. So unfortunatle along with alot of players who should be gone, he must go as well.
Meh, it's a double-edged knife. As long as Hitch goes for the right reasons, I'm fine with it. I'm just saying if he gets fired because the players chose not to show up, that's a ****** deal.

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05-02-2006, 09:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
The players tuned Hitch out. Hey, I hate Hitch as a coach, but never, and I mean never do I ever want to see a coach get fired because the team tunes him out. They quit on him intentionally. Some on here would say other wise, but they quit on Hitch tonight. And I hate it. If the Flyers lost because they were outcoached by Lindy Ruff, then fine, I could see firing Hitch. However, to intentionally quit on the coach is absolutely appaling and disgusting. I honestly hope that in the coming days, Clarke starts throwing players under the bus and begins questioning their hearts and their intentions on being on this team.

Yeah, Hitch may have his flaws. He might rely on the veterans too much and he might be too rough on rookies and he might have a system that is outdated in today's NHL. However, you just don't up and quit on your coach and that's what these guys did. I'll say it before and I'll say it again. This reeks of what they did to Bill Barber. You just watch in the next couple of days and watch what happens with regards to players who will remain "anonymous" and will complain about the way Hitch was.
I think they may have stopped listening because they know that a lot of his strategies don't work in today's NHL. It's a failure all around, but I think a new coach could invigorate this team because realistically, most of these players will stay.

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05-02-2006, 10:27 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
I think they may have stopped listening because they know that a lot of his strategies don't work in today's NHL. It's a failure all around, but I think a new coach could invigorate this team because realistically, most of these players will stay.
If they stopped listening, it's the captain's responsibility to bring things up with the coach that his systems aren't working. For as rigid as Hitch is, I'm sure he'd be more than willing to work to some sort of compromise when it comes to this kind of stuff. He did it before when Primeau would tell him what players were thinking. Hitch said it best about Primeau - you could always rely on him to tell you the truth, even if you didn't like it. Hatcher did nothing like that.

But, I think we're getting a new coach and it's unfortunate that no one on the team is going to be held accountable for their actions. They collectively threw Hitch under the bus. Maybe it's just me, but seeing a grown man cry because he knew his team quit on him was absolutely disheartening. This is the first time that I've felt really bad for Hitch.

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05-02-2006, 10:32 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
trade Hitch for torterella and a 3rd
Can you say Mutiny?

Torterella coaches an entertaining style of hockey but his relations with his players sucks dick. He publicly embarassed both Grahame and Burke the other night, leaving Tampa's goaltending situation even more in question. If our players have even the slightest doubt in their own abilities then this guy could very well crush their confidence, or turn them into great offensive weapons. Quite the risk.

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05-02-2006, 10:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
This reeks of what they did to Bill Barber. You just watch in the next couple of days and watch what happens with regards to players who will remain "anonymous" and will complain about the way Hitch was.
There was nothing "anonymous" about what happened with Bill Barber. The players kept it under wraps during the season because of the passing of his wife and the situation grew worse and worse. It was widely known, but not reported by the media, that the team was largely unhappy with Barber (specifically the fact that he refused to practice the PP and PK)... then he tried to institute an entirely new system of play prior to game 5 against Ottawa... that was the final straw.

Boucher sounded off to the media after clearing out his locker, which was followed by Primeau having his press conference (for which he's held the honor of beheading Barber... when, in fact, it was Boucher that started the ball). Rex and everyone else followed.

This team was inconsistent... I think Hitch has to take some of the blame for that, but there are tons of other factors that went into creating that situation. Rookies and youth throughout the lineup, injuries... below average goaltending (from both goalies)... a PK that just flat-out lost games at times (Toronto)... so on and so forth.

I'll be shocked if Hitch is gone at this point as Snider put himself on record when Hitch was hired that from here on out it would fall on the players to perform. Hitch is a hard-***, the only way it is going to work with him is if the players understand that he's the boss... He's a very smart coach, he didn't suddenly get dumb... and he just earned a 100 point season with a team that was a mess to say the least.

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05-02-2006, 11:03 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Should he stay or should he go?

I've been a defender of him for a long time, but I am done. We can't blame this series on goaltending because Esche has been spectacular. I know it was good that we got a lot of points in the regular season, but the players are just not motivated. They're not playing together and they're not playing with passion. Here are reasons why I would bring in someone else, maybe Crawford.

A) The absolute insistence on Desjardins and Gauthier. Both guys have just been terrible, yet they are put on the ice in important situation. Rico had a great ride, but he should not be seeing more than 15 minutes per game.

B) Penalties. We can blame the players, but sooner or later, this comes back to coaching. This team has still not truly adjusted to the new NHL. They take way too many hooking penalties and they've done this for the entire year.

C) Treatment of rookies. Mike Richards should be getting a lot more minutes and so should Carter. I'm not sure if he's playing mind games with them, but it's just stupid. I respect Savage as much as anyone else, but the guy just does not deserve the minutes he gets.

D) Appointing Hatcher captain. Handzus or Kapanen, guys that have been here for a while and are true leaders should have gotten the C.

I am tired of seeing a lazy and unmotivated team that always seems to take horrible penalties. This team has not adjusted to the new NHL. The Flyers aren't as slow as things seem. Most of our forwards have very good speed. But our system doesn't allow us to use the speed and skill. It's been a good ride, but I want a new coach.
Not arguing with some of your points here, but how can you justify more ice time for Carter who was completly invisible this how series and Richards who worked hard, but didnt play well either.

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05-02-2006, 11:06 PM
  #43
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I dont think Hitch should be fired. Dont forget the last season we played he came within a game of the cup final. This was part injuries (KJ would have been a difference in this series), part lack of heart and part a bad matchup.

They seemed to adjust to the new NHL fine during the first half of the season. Once this team lost all their players, they never seemed to be able to click again.

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05-02-2006, 11:08 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
Not arguing with some of your points here, but how can you justify more ice time for Carter who was completly invisible this how series and Richards who worked hard, but didnt play well either.
the season wore on Richards for sure... look at his splits. he'll be better next year with that under his belt and hopefully a strong offseason regimen... send him to hang out with Gags who definitely did a great job in developing his strength.

Carter definitely improved, but his shot gets him SO much more than he "deserves." He needs to get stronger in his upper body and, in general, stronger on the puck. Way too many turnovers from him where he simply left the puck wherever... Carter also needs to be better defensively next year.

this being said... Richards got 15 minutes a night... (i agree) you cannot seriously be complaining about that. only 3 forwards on this team had more ice time than him this year. Carter will get more time next year... i wish he had gotten more at the beginning of the season, but that's not how it worked out.

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05-02-2006, 11:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
I dont think Hitch should be fired. Dont forget the last season we played he came within a game of the cup final. This was part injuries (KJ would have been a difference in this series), part lack of heart and part a bad matchup.

They seemed to adjust to the new NHL fine during the first half of the season. Once this team lost all their players, they never seemed to be able to click again.
exactly.

KJ goes down that throws Hatcher's pairing into a funk... Pitkanen is out at that point... he comes back and isn't remotely close to the same for a few weeks, and by the time he's back to normal he's paired with Rathje, who is playing on 1.5 hips.

team was a mess body-wise. people forget how strong we were before the plague of injuries descended on us... you can say, "you can't use that as an excuse..." that's crap guys. it's not an excuse, it's an evidential reason for why some things happen. starters are better than replacements... so when you're playing with replacements it hurts the team. hockey is a game of teamwork, when your teammates aren't around... it's hard to get all that together.

we need some different pieces, this is obvious. however, we are well set up to be better next year... and the year after that with the roster structure that we have right now.

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05-02-2006, 11:19 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Jester
exactly.

KJ goes down that throws Hatcher's pairing into a funk... Pitkanen is out at that point... he comes back and isn't remotely close to the same for a few weeks, and by the time he's back to normal he's paired with Rathje, who is playing on 1.5 hips.

team was a mess body-wise. people forget how strong we were before the plague of injuries descended on us... you can say, "you can't use that as an excuse..." that's crap guys. it's not an excuse, it's an evidential reason for why some things happen. starters are better than replacements... so when you're playing with replacements it hurts the team. hockey is a game of teamwork, when your teammates aren't around... it's hard to get all that together.

we need some different pieces, this is obvious. however, we are well set up to be better next year... and the year after that with the roster structure that we have right now.
Right. And also, as I posted in another thread, we should not make wholesale changes at the coach or team level for next year. Its Forsberg's last year, lets take one more shot at it with Forsberg, Handzus, Kapanen and hopefully Primeau. The young guys who are not used to playing this long of a season and now got their feet wet in the NHL like Umberger, Carter, Richards, Eager, Meyer should be much better. Pitkanen, if he can get back to even close to the way he played the beginning of this year, he is poised to become a dominant offensive dman in this league. I am more then happy with Esche or Nitty, sign a veteran goalie that wont hurt you and use on of these guys as a trading chip. Do your best to eliminate some salary, take however much the cap goes up and go for a couple new forwards and a couple dman and take another run.

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05-03-2006, 12:49 AM
  #47
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Well, I'll be perfectly honest, I could care less about the injuries or not. Fact of the matter is that the swoon began to happen right at the start of the 2nd half and it continued on through.

Fact of the matter is that not everyone was injured. I think we're mistaking being injured with being hurt. I think there were players that were hurting, and there were players that were injured. Someone like Handzus for instance was injured. Someone like Carter was hurt (getting the 50+ staples in his ear).

The big problem though is that everyone stopped playing hockey. How that isn't clear to anyone is beyond me. They stopped playing hockey and they tuned out Hitch. What was embarassing was the way they went about it. You mark my words, Hatcher was a part of that in helping guys tune out Hitch. Hatcher was one of the players who helped in the ouster of Hitch in Dallas and it wouldn't surprise me if he was behind what went on here. Hatcher is a scum bag and a big piece of ****. That big dumb goof is a complete detriment to this team and he's just a complete waste of roster space on this team.

Every Philadelphia Flyer fan should be ashamed of the way this team performed in Game 6. It was an embarassment and it was disgusting in the way the team hung Hitchcock out to dry. Hey, I make no bones that I despise Hitchcock, but never, never, never have I ever wanted to see a coach go out like that. I was actually glad that Hitch showed some emotion in the press conference because you could see that the guys broke his heart and that's inexcusible. I'm a huge Flyers fan, but more importantly, I became a Hitchcock fan after that because you could see his eyes were welling up with tears. They quit on him and I think he was truly embarassed and ashamed by that.

For that one reason alone, I hope Hitch doesn't get fired and I hope they do gut the roster of players who quit or don't want to play for him. Every player on the roster should be made available and should be held accountable for their actions.

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05-03-2006, 07:54 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
Right. And also, as I posted in another thread, we should not make wholesale changes at the coach or team level for next year. Its Forsberg's last year, lets take one more shot at it with Forsberg, Handzus, Kapanen and hopefully Primeau. The young guys who are not used to playing this long of a season and now got their feet wet in the NHL like Umberger, Carter, Richards, Eager, Meyer should be much better. Pitkanen, if he can get back to even close to the way he played the beginning of this year, he is poised to become a dominant offensive dman in this league. I am more then happy with Esche or Nitty, sign a veteran goalie that wont hurt you and use on of these guys as a trading chip. Do your best to eliminate some salary, take however much the cap goes up and go for a couple new forwards and a couple dman and take another run.
wholesale changes equate to almost ZERO chance at winning the cup... stability is the one constant when you look at teams that succeed. if you really think that Hitch was the problem -- i don't -- then you can change that, but leave the rest...

this will be a better team next year with the rookies being a year older... Pitkanen having another year under his belt... and hopefully avoiding the rash of bad injuries throughout the lineup. some tinkering should, and will, occur... but it doesn't have to be drastic.

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05-03-2006, 09:47 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
I honestly hope that in the coming days, Clarke starts throwing players under the bus and begins questioning their hearts and their intentions on being on this team.
Yeah, 'cause that's worked so well for him in the past...

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05-03-2006, 11:35 AM
  #50
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btw, there a post (from a guy with 4000 posts) over at flyersphans stating that the players revolted against Hitch. Forsberg said they were unhappy with the style of play, the treatment of the young players and Hitchs refusal to adapt to the new NHL.

Apparantly either Hitch goes or Forsberg goes. I think only the cheesesteak stores would want Hitch to stay.

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