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Old
05-05-2006, 04:29 PM
  #1
Olly2
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Grigorenko

With reports that he has been offered a 1 million dollar deal, I beleve it would be in the best interest of the Red Wings to offer him the max entry level deal and bonuses that would make it more lucrative for him to come to NA than stay in Russia.

Although he is still young, I think getting him over here now that he is FA is key. Why risk the same fiasco that Pittsburgh is going through with Malkin?

It's obvious that he will be a great asset to the team. Why are the having such a tough time making Igor's decision easy? Are they not convince he is good enough?

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05-05-2006, 04:39 PM
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The wings can't offer him the kind of money ($1M per) Russia is offering. It's part of CBA for entry level contracts. Grigs will HAVE to take a pay cut to come over.

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05-05-2006, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olly2
With reports that he has been offered a 1 million dollar deal, I beleve it would be in the best interest of the Red Wings to offer him the max entry level deal and bonuses that would make it more lucrative for him to come to NA than stay in Russia.

Although he is still young, I think getting him over here now that he is FA is key. Why risk the same fiasco that Pittsburgh is going through with Malkin?

It's obvious that he will be a great asset to the team. Why are the having such a tough time making Igor's decision easy? Are they not convince he is good enough?
That appears to be what's going on. Jim Nill is the assistant GM and he's made several comments to the local media in the past 5 or 6 months about Grigorenko, and none of them are too flattering. I believe the Wings management wants to see him play another season on the RSL and then make a decision about him next spring. They do have until June of 07 to sign him.

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05-05-2006, 04:45 PM
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Entry Level Restrictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanner
The wings can't offer him the kind of money ($1M per) Russia is offering. It's part of CBA for entry level contracts. Grigs will HAVE to take a pay cut to come over.
There is a restricion for base salary, however, they can throw in bonuses for Games Played, Goals, Assists, for signing. I am not saying throw 3 million, but offering him something that can get him around 1.5 a year might get him over. I heard Ovechkin and Crosby made close to 3 million with their bonuses.

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05-05-2006, 04:46 PM
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While it would be nice to get him over here to get a better look and help him develop further, he is at least playing in a senior league with men so his development shoudn't be held back significantly. I still say the net-net is that Grig at some point will have to take a pay cut to further his development in the US.

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05-05-2006, 05:24 PM
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Leave the kid in the RSL for now... let him recover regain his form and continue to progress. At this point in time if you bring him over he will probably be about Perezhogin's level (similar numbers in the RSL). After his accident Grigs is no longer the porspect hyped to turn into a Kovalchuk level player - he still has some potential but he needs to overcome his degression... bringing him to North America would probably ruin his career at this point as he would be going back and forth between the NHL and AHL.

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05-05-2006, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olly2
There is a restricion for base salary, however, they can throw in bonuses for Games Played, Goals, Assists, for signing. I am not saying throw 3 million, but offering him something that can get him around 1.5 a year might get him over. I heard Ovechkin and Crosby made close to 3 million with their bonuses.
I might be completely wrong about this but I'm almost positive that the bonuses are static that have been decided by the league.
For example, the league has a list of all bonuses and their amount that teams are allowed to offer.

In other words, if you want to give a kid a bonus for games played, the league has it broken down so that 20 games = $100,000, 40 games = $250,000, 80 games = $500,00. The agent and GM then decide on one. Or for goals: 20 goals = $250,000, 50 goals = $1,000,000 etc. (all the totals I'm coming up with here are only guesses and used as an example).

So if the Wings wanted to hand over bonuses to Grigorenko they couldn't say , "If you play 10 games you get an extra $500,000) just to get him over the $1 million Russia is offering him.

If I'm wrong, someone correct me but I"m almost positive the new CBA has set bonus benchmarks and their worth.

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05-05-2006, 06:36 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
That appears to be what's going on. Jim Nill is the assistant GM and he's made several comments to the local media in the past 5 or 6 months about Grigorenko, and none of them are too flattering. I believe the Wings management wants to see him play another season on the RSL and then make a decision about him next spring. They do have until June of 07 to sign him.
Que?

Last thing I've read were his comments of being pleasantly surprised by Grigorenko's skating and playing. And there's no way in hell the Wings WANT him to play in Russia any more. I'm fairly certain they WANT him with Detroit and at the very least with the Griffins. Otherwise this whole issue with Omsk offering more than the rookie cap wouldn't even matter. If they Wings had their way, he'd be here.

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05-05-2006, 06:43 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Que?

Last thing I've read were his comments of being pleasantly surprised by Grigorenko's skating and playing. And there's no way in hell the Wings WANT him to play in Russia any more. I'm fairly certain they WANT him with Detroit and at the very least with the Griffins. Otherwise this whole issue with Omsk offering more than the rookie cap wouldn't even matter. If they Wings had their way, he'd be here.
I'm with snake here. I've read some stuff that indicated that Gregorenko will spend another year in Russia to give him more polish. Also, Omsk is offering up 7 digits and Nill doesn't feel that he's worth that right now.
Maybe this is all posturing by Nill to get Grigorenko to take less to come over, but from all the things I've read Grigs will be spending another year in Russia.

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05-05-2006, 06:49 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slitty
Leave the kid in the RSL for now... let him recover regain his form and continue to progress. At this point in time if you bring him over he will probably be about Perezhogin's level (similar numbers in the RSL). After his accident Grigs is no longer the porspect hyped to turn into a Kovalchuk level player - he still has some potential but he needs to overcome his degression... bringing him to North America would probably ruin his career at this point as he would be going back and forth between the NHL and AHL.
I don't think Grigorenko was ever hyped to be at Kovalchuk's level anyways, if he becomes a poor man's Kovalchuk I'll be super happy.

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05-05-2006, 11:25 PM
  #11
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The difference between Grigs caps of $858,800 the reported sum he's being offered in Russia is pretty slim. I'm wondering if the Wings have other concerns, like losing the rights to other propsects that need to be signed.

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05-06-2006, 02:43 AM
  #12
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Grigs has to realize that his earning potential is far higher in the NHL than in Russia. So one of a few things must be true:

1. Grigs is trying to pressure the Wings into offering him a deal with a lot of those rookie bonuses usually reserved for the very top picks

2. Grigs has no interest in playing in the NHL and is happy in Russia

3. Grigs is worried about getting injured and is grabbing all the cash he can now

4. Grigs knows he's not the player he used to be and he really can make more money in Russia

5. Grigs has no idea how the salary systems are set up in the two leagues and he's relying on the horrible advice of Gary Greenstin, who is a bad, bad man

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05-06-2006, 05:09 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
I don't think Grigorenko was ever hyped to be at Kovalchuk's level anyways, if he becomes a poor man's Kovalchuk I'll be super happy.

He was projected to be about Kovalchuk's level in Russia before the accident. Right now I dont see why you guys want to bring him over if you think Morozov would be an unproven minor signing that will likely not perform... Morozov is head and shoulders above Grigorenko - and its not even funny to the point of being the driving someone to suicide sad.

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05-06-2006, 03:19 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slitty
He was projected to be about Kovalchuk's level in Russia before the accident. Right now I dont see why you guys want to bring him over if you think Morozov would be an unproven minor signing that will likely not perform... Morozov is head and shoulders above Grigorenko - and its not even funny to the point of being the driving someone to suicide sad.
Why would I wanna bring Grigorenko over Morozov? well let see here, Grig is younger, higher potential (Despite the accident, you never know how he'll play), and in my honest opinion I think Grigorenko has a huge heart, I mean to come back from an injury like that and battle your way back on the ice is truely amazing, the Wings need players with heart like that.

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05-06-2006, 03:54 PM
  #15
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Grigs had an assist and 2PIM in today's game between Russia and Kazakhstan.

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05-06-2006, 03:55 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
Why would I wanna bring Grigorenko over Morozov? well let see here, Grig is younger, higher potential (Despite the accident, you never know how he'll play), and in my honest opinion I think Grigorenko has a huge heart, I mean to come back from an injury like that and battle your way back on the ice is truely amazing, the Wings need players with heart like that.
good point.

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05-07-2006, 10:00 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
Why would I wanna bring Grigorenko over Morozov? well let see here, Grig is younger, higher potential (Despite the accident, you never know how he'll play), and in my honest opinion I think Grigorenko has a huge heart, I mean to come back from an injury like that and battle your way back on the ice is truely amazing, the Wings need players with heart like that.
I agree with that as well. I think everyone noticed the lack of heart in this years playoffs.....it is frustrating to see your favourite team lose to a team that they should beat, all because some players don't have heart.

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05-07-2006, 11:22 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Que?

Last thing I've read were his comments of being pleasantly surprised by Grigorenko's skating and playing. And there's no way in hell the Wings WANT him to play in Russia any more. I'm fairly certain they WANT him with Detroit and at the very least with the Griffins. Otherwise this whole issue with Omsk offering more than the rookie cap wouldn't even matter. If they Wings had their way, he'd be here.
I wouldn't say the remarks have been negative.
But in terms of bringing him over, the Wings have not sounded overly optimistic.
I think the Wings probably knew when they made these statements that they'd have to compete with a large offer.
As impressive as his comeback has been, there are still concerns, and they don't think he's worth the rookie max, or I think they'd say so

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05-08-2006, 09:51 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
I wouldn't say the remarks have been negative.
But in terms of bringing him over, the Wings have not sounded overly optimistic.
I think the Wings probably knew when they made these statements that they'd have to compete with a large offer.
As impressive as his comeback has been, there are still concerns, and they don't think he's worth the rookie max, or I think they'd say so
That's pretty much what I meant by my post. Every time I see Nill say something about Grigs he starts off with a compliment about his recovery, then adds a "but" followed by a remark that leads me to believe Wings management is filled with doubt. I don't think they've written him off, but they're clearly not in a hurry to bring him into the fold.

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05-08-2006, 10:25 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slitty
He was projected to be about Kovalchuk's level in Russia before the accident. Right now I dont see why you guys want to bring him over if you think Morozov would be an unproven minor signing that will likely not perform... Morozov is head and shoulders above Grigorenko - and its not even funny to the point of being the driving someone to suicide sad.
I remember reading the same things about Grig's. Many scouts felt he had the potential to be in the same level as Kovalchuk.
This makes me very bitter. How many Russian superstars (or potential superstars) are we going to lose to auto accidents.
Slava Kozlov had, reportedly, the same talent as Federov. And some scouts thought he'd be better than him. But then he got in an accident too and the Wings scouts said his potential took a big hit from that. Slava was still a very good player for us but not what some felt he could have been.
Imagine if Grigorenko could have been a 40+ goal scorer with some grit to match?

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious he'll play in the RSL for one more year before hopping the pond. We'll see how he does then.

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05-08-2006, 11:23 AM
  #21
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I saw Kozlov before he came to play in the US and i will also say before the accident he was amazing. I remeber most 2 games one vs spartak and one vs minnasota as they toured in russia. Kozlov a few times went end to end and scored an awsome goal. He would at times just seem to dace on the ice, so smooth and creative but after he got hurt he was just never really the same but still a great player.

As for grigs he too before the injury i gotta tell you guys he was awsome at times very skilled and very strong on the puck, but it's taken him a while to come back to form and will he every be back too where he was before the injury?? i don't know But i can tell you i just finnished watching a PRE oylimpic tune up game that team russia played vs swiss,, grigs was on the team with Malkin sushinsky Kharatinov and others and at times grigs was the best player on the ice. He skated strong made some nice moves mucked it up in the corners played very well and in my opinion i think he should have made the oylimpic team.

Anyway i hope he does get back to 100% and that he in time will come over and play with Datsyuk and the wings and help lead them to another championship.

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05-08-2006, 12:32 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank19
I might be completely wrong about this but I'm almost positive that the bonuses are static that have been decided by the league.
For example, the league has a list of all bonuses and their amount that teams are allowed to offer.

In other words, if you want to give a kid a bonus for games played, the league has it broken down so that 20 games = $100,000, 40 games = $250,000, 80 games = $500,00. The agent and GM then decide on one. Or for goals: 20 goals = $250,000, 50 goals = $1,000,000 etc. (all the totals I'm coming up with here are only guesses and used as an example).

So if the Wings wanted to hand over bonuses to Grigorenko they couldn't say , "If you play 10 games you get an extra $500,000) just to get him over the $1 million Russia is offering him.

If I'm wrong, someone correct me but I"m almost positive the new CBA has set bonus benchmarks and their worth.
I'm not sure of the exact values, but you're right about the bonuses. Part of the CBA was to curb the amount that entry level players can make, both through salary and bonuses.

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05-08-2006, 01:02 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckNut
I'm not sure of the exact values, but you're right about the bonuses. Part of the CBA was to curb the amount that entry level players can make, both through salary and bonuses.
Thanks PuckNut, I was sure I read something along those lines.

And thanks RedAce for your impressions on Grigorenko. It's nice to hear from people who've seen them live.
I believe it was one of the TSN crew that said during the World Juniors (when Grigs played in them) that Igor was supposed to have the same talent as Kovalchuk. I just hope he can still be a main contributor to the Wings in the future. We're so weak on the wing position that some scoring would be nice to have for Dats and Zetts.

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05-08-2006, 02:04 PM
  #24
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NHL.com has the rules posted.

http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html

Just look down under "ENTRY LEVEL PLAYERS"


Quote:
Entry Level players may negotiate for performance bonuses up to a maximum of $850,000 in individual "Schedule A" bonuses per year (maximum of $212,500 per bonus). A player may also be eligible to earn individual "B" bonuses for League-wide excellence, which will, as a general matter, be paid by the League. In addition, a player will be eligible to negotiate with his club "excess" individual "B" bonuses, subject to a maximum aggregate of $2 million in any year.

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05-08-2006, 05:23 PM
  #25
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watched grigorenko play today vs belarus. 3-2 russia in poor showing for russia. several russians were ill, including malkin, syemin, and grigorenko. online feed http://www.corbina.tv/ was really bad, so it is hard to really make judgements about anyone.


grigorenko, like most of team, had poor game. 2 penalties, including 1 on PK; and according to russian fans, he had several giveaways. he also, they say, missed open net. he had 1 excellent opportunity at side of net, but pass was really bad, and his shot was saved by diving belarussian. he did have a few scoring chances, but no points. he was originally credited w/ goal, but he didn't touch it. on another strong scoring chance, he was hooked while skating w/ puck to net, but no penalty called.

couldn't tell if he was skating well. picture was so bad that numbers on jerseys aren't visible. not perimeter player, often near net. grigorenko played on 4th line.

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