HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hindsight is always 20-20, but...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-06-2006, 09:18 AM
  #1
plafleur10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Hindsight is always 20-20, but...

Watching these playoffs, it has been very painful:

1)To watch local product François Beauchemin thrive with Anaheim, after losing him for nothing due to our hockey gurus Gainey & Co. misinterpreting a technicality (looks like he could have been sent to Hamilton under a different provision during the lockout and would not have been lost, like tons of teams did with their key prospects, ex: Ottawa with Jason Spezza)

2)To watch defenseman Andrei Meszaros and power forward Wojtek Wolski thrive with Sens and Avs, while Kyle Chipchura,picked before them,is probably a couple of years in the AHL away from becoming a decent NHL plumber at best.

3)To watch power fowards Steve Bernier (another local product), Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry display star potential with Sharks and Ducks, while, according to our hockey gurus here, Andrei Kostsysnin, picked ahead of each three (not to mention Jeff Carter), is not good enough to dress for one playoff game on a weak offensive team that could not score more than one goal per game for its last 4 games.

All this while the whole world (except our hockey gurus and the Montreal fans who sit with their mouth wide open and gobble up whatever their gurus throw at them)knows our key problems are and have been for a long time that our Top 6 forwards are too small and that we lack depth on defense...

plafleur10 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:33 AM
  #2
Qui Gon Dave
Registered User
 
Qui Gon Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
Country: England
Posts: 8,504
vCash: 500
You are absolutely right. This is the time for all Montreal Canadiens fans to be negative. We have nothing to look forward to in the coming years. We have no chance of winning anything. Time to fold the team Bob, it's just not worth it any more.

Would the last person to leave the Bell Center please bring the banners down and switch the lights off.

Thank you.

Qui Gon Dave is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:34 AM
  #3
Mtl6
Registered User
 
Mtl6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,139
vCash: 500
Beauchemin, cause we lost him for nothing.

Mtl6 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:36 AM
  #4
pavlako11
Registered User
 
pavlako11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Greece
Posts: 709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
Watching these playoffs, it has been very painful:

2)To watch defenseman Andrei Meszaros and power forward Wojtek Wolski thrive with Sens and Avs, while Kyle Chipchura,picked before them,is probably a couple of years in the AHL away from becoming a decent NHL plumber at best.
Meszaros was a mess yesterday, I know he's young, but he got ripped apart by Don Cherry (on national tv) and his own coach (post-game press conference). Why Murray would stick him on at such a criticle moment of the game with all the mistakes he made all game long still baffles me. And let Chipchura actually play a game in the NHL before you write him off.

pavlako11 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:43 AM
  #5
Kimota
Three Bananas
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 23,022
vCash: 500
What`s the point of being bitter? I`m sure New York Islanders fans wish they would have drafted Komisarek and Higgins too. Martin St-Louis wanted to play with the Habs so bad he offered them his services for free several times and they were not interested. But it`s no use to keep living in the past. What`s important right now is next summer and what Gainey`s going to do.

(although, man I still can`t believe we picked Price over Bourdon! )

Kimota is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:48 AM
  #6
Bill McNeal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,659
vCash: 50
Switch teams so you won't be in pain then. Clearly you prefer ex-habs to current ones.

Me, I'll enjoy thinking about just how much better Chris Higgins, Tomas Plekanec, Alexander Perezhogin and Mike Komisarek will be next year. I'll also dream of the day that other 'busts' like Andrei Kostsitsyn and Kyle Chipchura get their chances to shine.

Do you know how many player transactions occur in the NHL each year? Do you know how big of a waste of time it is to pine over every player who enjoys a modicum of success elsewhere? Not only pine over players that were part of our team, but players who never even belonged to us. If you're going to sob into your beer about every player in a draft the Habs didn't pick, you're never going to be happy.

Bill McNeal is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:50 AM
  #7
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Albino has a great idea, switch teams. Its not like every team missed those players as well .

Habsaku is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:52 AM
  #8
davey999
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave
You are absolutely right. This is the time for all Montreal Canadiens fans to be negative. We have nothing to look forward to in the coming years. We have no chance of winning anything. Time to fold the team Bob, it's just not worth it any more.

Would the last person to leave the Bell Center please bring the banners down and switch the lights off.

Thank you.
Correct, you wouldn't want to learn form your mistakes, right?

davey999 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 09:54 AM
  #9
davey999
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
Watching these playoffs, it has been very painful:

1)To watch local product François Beauchemin thrive with Anaheim, after losing him for nothing due to our hockey gurus Gainey & Co. misinterpreting a technicality (looks like he could have been sent to Hamilton under a different provision during the lockout and would not have been lost, like tons of teams did with their key prospects, ex: Ottawa with Jason Spezza)

2)To watch defenseman Andrei Meszaros and power forward Wojtek Wolski thrive with Sens and Avs, while Kyle Chipchura,picked before them,is probably a couple of years in the AHL away from becoming a decent NHL plumber at best.

3)To watch power fowards Steve Bernier (another local product), Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry display star potential with Sharks and Ducks, while, according to our hockey gurus here, Andrei Kostsysnin, picked ahead of each three (not to mention Jeff Carter), is not good enough to dress for one playoff game on a weak offensive team that could not score more than one goal per game for its last 4 games.

All this while the whole world (except our hockey gurus and the Montreal fans who sit with their mouth wide open and gobble up whatever their gurus throw at them)knows our key problems are and have been for a long time that our Top 6 forwards are too small and that we lack depth on defense...
Not suprisingly, you got totally bashed by all the "rose coloured glasses" group here.

That being said, your points are valid and hopefully the staff can learn from their mistakes.

davey999 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:01 AM
  #10
Bill McNeal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,659
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
Not suprisingly, you got totally bashed by all the "rose coloured glasses" group here.

That being said, your points are valid and hopefully the staff can learn from their mistakes.
As opposed to those who wear their sunglasses at night?

For every Beauchemin there's a Marcel Hossa, some crap player that goes on to do nothing that nobody talks about. Of course, why bother thinking of all the positive things the organization has done? That would only dilute somebody's argument about how this team is run by incompetent buffoons.

Bill McNeal is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:17 AM
  #11
tmc
Registered User
 
tmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
Correct, you wouldn't want to learn form your mistakes, right?
there will always be mistakes, it's not like drafting is an exact science, you lose beauchemin to waivers but you gain begin, i'm sure lot's of teams wished they picked higgins

tmc is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:18 AM
  #12
plafleur10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
Not suprisingly, you got totally bashed by all the "rose coloured glasses" group here.

That being said, your points are valid and hopefully the staff can learn from their mistakes.
Might be a result of being older (45) than most people here and having lived my teenage years through the seventies which were glorious years for the Habs, so I am more demanding indeed and will not throw a gratitude party for a 6-game loss in the first round on a 70-foot shot in Overtime, which might or might not have deflected on a defenseman's stick who committed the mistake of his life by doing something that is NEVER done in hockey (take off the rose colored glasses, this is done several times per game!!!), putting your stick in front of a shot to deflect it in the crowd (which is why they installed a net on top of the glass to protect the fans behind the net, remember!).

The Habs are very lucky in one way that their current fan base will accept almost anything from them, as what they retained from the seventies is not hockey glory, but, as you very accurately point out, the "rose colored glasses"...

Our fans should only look at the most gullible fans in hockey, the Maple Leaf Fans, to see what happens when you throw you full confidence and trust at whatever product is given to you on ice, resulting in decades of misery.

Yes we drafted well in 2001 (Komi and Perezhogin) and 2002 (Higgins), a.k.a. the "Savard Years", but we certainly have not done as well in 2003,2004 and 2005 (the "Gainey/Timmins Years"), so someone should definitely point it out.

In today's NHL, mistakes will burn you even more, given that young players will accede to the NHL faster due to the salary cap in place.

To the smart one who said the Islanders could also cry that they did not get Komi and Higgins, the Islanders have nothing to be sorry about, they DID NOT own a pick prior to the ones with which Komi and Higgins were selected,while the palyers I mentioned in my post WERE AVAILABLE when the Habs selected...

plafleur10 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:20 AM
  #13
plafleur10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Paying Customer

If I may add, being a season ticket holder and paying customer, I feel I have earned the right to be critical when such bad mistakes as the Beauchemin one are made.

plafleur10 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:25 AM
  #14
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,163
vCash: 500
If you want to bring up the beauchemin thing, you have to look at it from both ways.

Wasn't Huet a steal from LA??

In the end, you'd like to have more steals than giveaways. We just cant look at the giveaway side of things. Look also at the steal side of things. That way, we are on our way at looking at the big picture.

Besides, I'm not so sure if Beauchemin would have beome a solid d-man without Randy Carlyle. Apparently, he was very hard on Francois and challenged him both mentally and physically like nobody has challenged him before. For example, I remember McGuire saying that beauchemin's fitness level was unacceptable in the eyes of carlyle. Carlyle blasted Francois to get in better shape or stay in the minors.

Hackett is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:27 AM
  #15
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
If I may add, being a season ticket holder and paying customer, I feel I have earned the right to be critical when such bad mistakes as the Beauchemin one are made.
If I've learned anything around here(yes it is possible), its that posters that start of saying "I've been a fan for XX number of years" have no idea what they're talking about. You saw the 70s, good for you, the reality has changed, there are now 30 teams, a lot of europeans and a cap to work with. Money is now the reality and not playing for your hometown province. Gainey has improved the team every year since coming in. Saying that we've not done well since 2003 in the draft is premature to say the least. We are now just beggining to get the rewards of the 2001 and 2002 draft, so how can judge this soon? It makes no sense at all. I'm not overjoyed by Kostitsyn, I've always wanted Getzlaf or Parize, but he is an elite talent and has improved each and every year. And boy, he is a big kid let me tell you that. When you'll actually see him play and see his array of shots and his moves with the puck, I wont expect you to come over here and say you we're wrong, no one ever does.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:28 AM
  #16
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett
If you want to bring up the beauchemin thing, you have to look at it from both ways.

Wasn't Huet a steal from LA??

In the end, you'd like to have more steals than giveaways. We just cant look at the giveaway side of things. Look also at the steal side of things. That way, we are on our way at looking at the big picture.

Besides, I'm not so sure if Beauchemin would have beome a solid d-man without Randy Carlyle. Apparently, he was very hard on Francois and challenged him both mentally and physically like nobody has challenged him before. For example, I remember McGuire saying that beauchemin's fitness level was unacceptable in the eyes of carlyle. Carlyle blasted Francois to get in better shape or stay in the minors.
Huet, Kovalev, Markov, Ryder, Koivu, Souray, Zednik, Bulis, Perezhogin, Higgins, Begin, Murray are players off the top of the head that we stole either through the draft, the waivers or lopsided deals.

Habsaku is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:31 AM
  #17
ChemiseBleuHonnete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,489
vCash: 500
I think the guy bring some good points. But he made one mistake, he talked against Kostitsyn. Read the rules, it's not allowed. You get 5 bashing points for talking against Kostitsyn.

ChemiseBleuHonnete is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:34 AM
  #18
Le Tricolore
J-E-T-S!
 
Le Tricolore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 29,870
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
I wont expect you to come over here and say you we're wrong, no one ever does.
I was wrong about Dandenault!

I thought he'd be totally useless here, but he had a great second half and playoffs.

I DID IT! I BROKE THE ICE! I OPENED THE FLOODGATES!

Le Tricolore is online now  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:36 AM
  #19
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjb45
I was wrong about Dandenault!

I thought he'd be totally useless here, but he had a great second half and playoffs.

I DID IT! I BROKE THE ICE! I OPENED THE FLOODGATES!

thats a brutal avatar, dude

I feel for ya

Hackett is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:37 AM
  #20
Stan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
Might be a result of being older (45) than most people here and having lived my teenage years through the seventies which were glorious years for the Habs, so I am more demanding indeed and will not throw a gratitude party for a 6-game loss in the first round on a 70-foot shot in Overtime, which might or might not have deflected on a defenseman's stick who committed the mistake of his life by doing something that is NEVER done in hockey (take off the rose colored glasses, this is done several times per game!!!), putting your stick in front of a shot to deflect it in the crowd (which is why they installed a net on top of the glass to protect the fans behind the net, remember!).

The Habs are very lucky in one way that their current fan base will accept almost anything from them, as what they retained from the seventies is not hockey glory, but, as you very accurately point out, the "rose colored glasses"...

Our fans should only look at the most gullible fans in hockey, the Maple Leaf Fans, to see what happens when you throw you full confidence and trust at whatever product is given to you on ice, resulting in decades of misery.

Yes we drafted well in 2001 (Komi and Perezhogin) and 2002 (Higgins), a.k.a. the "Savard Years", but we certainly have not done as well in 2003,2004 and 2005 (the "Gainey/Timmins Years"), so someone should definitely point it out.

In today's NHL, mistakes will burn you even more, given that young players will accede to the NHL faster due to the salary cap in place.

To the smart one who said the Islanders could also cry that they did not get Komi and Higgins, the Islanders have nothing to be sorry about, they DID NOT own a pick prior to the ones with which Komi and Higgins were selected,while the palyers I mentioned in my post WERE AVAILABLE when the Habs selected...
You have some valid points. I think letting Beauchemen go was a huge mistake. He had been developing really well in the AHL, and I think they looked at his size (a tweener....not Bouillon...but not big either) and decided they didn't have room for him....rather than giving him a shot. I don't think that everything is a crap shoot like others here. If we didn't recognize that talent within our organization, while others saw it....we need to improve in that facet of our operations. I think it's a mistake to say...."well you never know". We didn't give him a chance and that was a mistake.

Having said all that, I think it's too early to write players off. You're calling the last 3 drafts a disappointment. Chipchura will be a very good NHL player. There isn't a team in the NHL that wouldn't love to have him as a prospect. At 18th overall in a weak draft, he was a great pick. Meszaros is going to be a good d-man, but he was a risk when he was drafted. Scouts hadn't seen a lot of him, and for that reason he fell to Ottawa. As far as the Kostitsyn pick goes...give it time. He was a project pick....and I think we can all agree that if (I think when) he puts it all together, he's going to be the power forward we're looking for. Oh...and then there's Carey Price...a potential franchise goalie...not a bad pick when goaltending is at a premium. Anyway...my point is that it's too early to tell how these players will develop IMO. Maybe they all bust....it could happen.....but I don't think it will. I don't think that's seeing things through "rose-coloured glasses"...because most GM's in the league would say Montreal has great prospect quality and depth.

Just my thoughts

Stan is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:39 AM
  #21
plafleur10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Don't even try Huet!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchise player
I think the guy bring some good points. But he made one mistake, he talked against Kostitsyn. Read the rules, it's not allowed. You get 5 bashing points for talking against Kostitsyn.
How many bashing points do you get for bashing Huet? Banished for life?

plafleur10 is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:42 AM
  #22
Bill McNeal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,659
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
Might be a result of being older (45) than most people here and having lived my teenage years through the seventies which were glorious years for the Habs, so I am more demanding indeed and will not throw a gratitude party for a 6-game loss in the first round on a 70-foot shot in Overtime, which might or might not have deflected on a defenseman's stick who committed the mistake of his life by doing something that is NEVER done in hockey (take off the rose colored glasses, this is done several times per game!!!), putting your stick in front of a shot to deflect it in the crowd (which is why they installed a net on top of the glass to protect the fans behind the net, remember!).
No idea what that has to do with anything, but ok...


Quote:
The Habs are very lucky in one way that their current fan base will accept almost anything from them, as what they retained from the seventies is not hockey glory, but, as you very accurately point out, the "rose colored glasses"...
Oh please. It's a lot easier to win in the 70s coming off expansion than it is now. There's a reason that Habs Stanley Cup parades have been few and far between since about a decade after expansion.

Quote:
Our fans should only look at the most gullible fans in hockey, the Maple Leaf Fans, to see what happens when you throw you full confidence and trust at whatever product is given to you on ice, resulting in decades of misery.
You'd think that somebody who claims to have been watching hockey for so long would understand that the draft is a crapshoot.

Quote:
Yes we drafted well in 2001 (Komi and Perezhogin) and 2002 (Higgins), a.k.a. the "Savard Years", but we certainly have not done as well in 2003,2004 and 2005 (the "Gainey/Timmins Years"), so someone should definitely point it out.


Here's a question for you: When did Higgins have his first good year?

Answer? This year. He was drafted in 2002. So, you give Higgins 4 years to develop, but suddenly the 2003, 2004 and 2005 classes are written off? Hell, people were writing off Higgins before the season started.

Seems that for such a long-time fan you lack patience.

Quote:
In today's NHL, mistakes will burn you even more, given that young players will accede to the NHL faster due to the salary cap in place.
Yet you made a list of mistakes made in the old NHL?

Quote:
To the smart one who said the Islanders could also cry that they did not get Komi and Higgins, the Islanders have nothing to be sorry about, they DID NOT own a pick prior to the ones with which Komi and Higgins were selected,while the palyers I mentioned in my post WERE AVAILABLE when the Habs selected...
Again, I have to wonder how long you've been watching the draft if you pine over every missed pick. Do you still wonder how the Habs didn't draft Dominik Hasek in the 8th round?

The sad fact is, this organization has done so much in the past decade to be the butt of well-deserved criticism yet you chose to make a thread about some of the most miniscule things. Most of which still have yet to pan out.

I wonder when the next thread about Mathieu Garon will pop up...

Bill McNeal is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:45 AM
  #23
Habsaku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by franchise player
I think the guy bring some good points. But he made one mistake, he talked against Kostitsyn. Read the rules, it's not allowed. You get 5 bashing points for talking against Kostitsyn.
I'm a bit more bothered by the fact he says our top 6 forwards are too small. Does he watch anything other then Habs games? Most teams have the same size we do on the top 6. We need to improve the quality, not the size, especially not in this NHL. Has he forgotten about the Sabres? Heck, the Sens have two big offensive forwards in Spezza(6'2") and Heatley(6'3") but Fisher, Vermette, Arnason, Havlat, Schaefer, Alfredsson, Kelly, well they should trade them all cause they arent big enough?

Habsaku is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:46 AM
  #24
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,244
vCash: 500
The only recent draft mistake that still bugs me was the selection of Urquhart instead of Bergeron. Now that might have made a difference!

Teufelsdreck is offline  
Old
05-06-2006, 10:52 AM
  #25
BigTimer*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by plafleur10
Watching these playoffs, it has been very painful:

1)To watch local product François Beauchemin thrive with Anaheim, after losing him for nothing due to our hockey gurus Gainey & Co. misinterpreting a technicality (looks like he could have been sent to Hamilton under a different provision during the lockout and would not have been lost, like tons of teams did with their key prospects, ex: Ottawa with Jason Spezza)

2)To watch defenseman Andrei Meszaros and power forward Wojtek Wolski thrive with Sens and Avs, while Kyle Chipchura,picked before them,is probably a couple of years in the AHL away from becoming a decent NHL plumber at best.

3)To watch power fowards Steve Bernier (another local product), Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry display star potential with Sharks and Ducks, while, according to our hockey gurus here, Andrei Kostsysnin, picked ahead of each three (not to mention Jeff Carter), is not good enough to dress for one playoff game on a weak offensive team that could not score more than one goal per game for its last 4 games.

All this while the whole world (except our hockey gurus and the Montreal fans who sit with their mouth wide open and gobble up whatever their gurus throw at them)knows our key problems are and have been for a long time that our Top 6 forwards are too small and that we lack depth on defense...
If you want to ***** about something, save it for the roster players and not the prospects. Had we not traded up in 2002 we might not have drafted Higgins and you'd probably be here now whining about that so it's a waste of time to talk about what could of been in various drafts.

As a paying customer, however, you're in a much better position to whine about:

- Rivet and Markov being absolutely atrocious in the playoffs
- Having our franchise winger platooned with third/fourth liners for the playoffs
- Watching a team that only hits if the other team hits them first
- Having our offensive strategy revolve around point-shots during the playoffs
- Streit somehow being able to con his way onto the roster for the whole season

I will agree with you on one thing, though: Seeing all the misguided optimism on this board following the sub-par performance we put in this past series is disturbing to say the least.

BigTimer* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.